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- Edgardo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've been working as an ASP.NET developer for the past year (actually we went live using ASP.NET 2.0 beta 2), and I've already made more money that what I did in 3 years as a PHP developer.
When I got the job I knew ***** about .NET, it took me no time to learn, its actually a pretty good framework, easy to learn, easy to do develop with, the IDE is great and now Microsoft is giving away Visual Studio Express for free so enthusiasts can learn. You can get hosting for as a little as 9.90 USD... (MS hosting used to be much more expensive) overall, it has its weak points (like any other framework), for example IIS is still a crap webserver, but Microsoft will change that in Vista Servers.
And yeah, I was the kind of guy who said "c++ all the way".
The truth is you need to use C++ when the project demans something like C++, but most applications today can be done with .NET in half time, with less bugs and less people.
Go Microsoft and the .NET Framework! - sonofalink, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Damn, too bad I'm not living in a major city. :P
.NET programmer and hating every second of it. - mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Um Microsoft Visual C++, and to be honest .NET isnt that bad, its easy to setup a program to do somthing fast without spending forever to develop and debug it. As of now there is no real OpenSource framework to match it. You people need to get Opensource straight, its good for some things and bad for others. A good example would be Joomla!, Ubuntu, OpenOffice, Gaim while bad examples would be Gimp, and others. .NET is very powerfull and the only reason you discount it is because its Microsoft. So while you guys use your dev C++ ill be using VS 2003 and Visual C++/C#
- SparQy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3
This just in: I'm underpaid. - Dogtown7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Just got a job in the bay area...75-85k is 2-3 yrs experience. Senior level developers (5yrs) easily make over 100k. Not many will hire and mentor a jr level developer...thus contributing to the market run up. That will change as salaries inflate.
There might be a variety of reasons to hate Microsoft, but if you code for a living and not just for fun, then you must consider the level of adoption in the business community. Because Microsoft controls the OS, they have an inside track with most businesses.
By the way, C++ is not really used in the business community. Most companies cannot afford a project arc that is over 6 months. But game development? Hmm...
Also, I think being a cocoa programmer might finally start being attractive... - Sithlrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Which is what java will never, can never be, the premier development system. Sun is way too shortsighted to release it to the world. Enter Microsoft who has a clean language in C# and something which can be truly cross platform, easy to learn, compiles to machine code, AND they give the stuff away to the ECMA. I'd say it was brilliant, but they killed Netscape by giving away IE, and they killed Lotus by giving away Excel. You'd think the idiots running Sun would have seen this coming.
- OmegaNine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They used to teach it at my school, then the teacher quit and they cant find anyone that will teach it. But we have 6 C++ teachers and 3 java teachers. Not sure what that means, but there it is.
- Sithlrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1.Net = paying job
.Net, like VB and Access development before it, has made me a lot of money. Java is fine if you like programming for free in a language put together by engineers for engineers that has little or ZERO documentation.
C# is Java without the lawsuits. - krum, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The article says that experienced .NET developers can pull 85k... not ones that are just starting out. Junior programmers get paid junior programmer salaries.
- aCiD2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What the F**K is milo_hoffman on about?! Mono IS cross platform .NET, MonoDevelop is the IDE. I wrote a game in .NET with a friend. He used Windows, I use Linux and guess what? We had absolutly no trouble passing our source back and forth between each other (well, we used subversion) and didn't have to do stuff like "#IF __WIN32".
So to you sir... BZZZT! WRONG! - FelixdaaHack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ brock_landers, thund3rstruck, digiteyes
At the Redmond conference room table, “how do we make .NET developing hip and groovy to all those young peoplz”…”I know! lets go on Digg and rave about how easy .NET is to learn and implement and that they will make lots of bling bling doing it”…”excellent work people…here’s some limited edition Bill Gates action figures” - PDelahanty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Our site (one of the 100 most visited sites on the web) is switching over to .Net. What a freakin' pain in the ass. I'm .Not liking .Net one bit.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1shh, don't tell india about this!
- MetalliMyers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am getting severly ripped off. I've only been developing in C# .Net for about 7 months, but I'm only making 1/4 that salary. However the cost of living being low in my area, it's still peanuts.
- BinaryJay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0".NET" developer Toronto (If you ask me that's pretty major in Canada) in a shop using C# exclusively, 6+ years of experience, best I'm doing at the moment is a 60K salary, and that's CDN... sigh, I don't know where these numbers come from but maybe I'm getting gypped here...
- brock_landers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've been coding PHP for a school district for almost a year now. This quarter in college, I'm taking a ASP.NET 2.0 course. I almost cried when I learned how easy it is to do things in ASP.NET. It's almost like it's not fair.
- zeeta6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0just are reminder, .net has c++
- ronk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
I was expecting .net developers to be making more than that. I wonder how much the engineers at Microsoft working on the .net framework are making. - colelt1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I was a CSCI major for 2 years and did nothing but java, then switched to MIS and 3 years of .net (vb, asp, c# blah blah) also did 1 year of db stuff and C, and assembly.
... after 5 years of programming (which I did well in), I burned out on it, I will never be a programmer ever...
I work at a system admin for a gov (state) department and make half the pay I could make, but make a good pay for the work I enjoy doing. After a few years my pay will double as I move up, and I will have more work experience (already have 4 years of experience, 3 during school + 1 outside school as an information systems tech).
Screw .net I would rather have a job testing eyeball needles in my own eyes. - digiteyes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0speaking from experience.. i live in the NYC - NJ Metro Area.. and was recently in the job market looking for Coldfusion Jobs.. saw a whole lot of .NET Jobs most of the starting off at $90K + with like very minimal experience...Wouldn't hurt to start looking into .NET sometime soon.
- thund3rstruck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Personally as a .NET developer (and no .NET is not a language but a collection of classes for which to code around) I find $75K-$85K to be much less than real life salaries. I don't live in a Tier1 city and I started at $90K (and that's not even using C# but VB.NET.)
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"So while you guys use your dev C++ ill be using VS 2003 and Visual C++/C#"
Well, 1.1 is nice, but after using the shiny new features in 2.0, I don't see how you could survive in 1.1. - itwax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i am not in a major city and I make $20000 a year only. less ?
no , it is approximately 1 million indian rupee and one can live like a king with so much money.
- daughtkom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0".NET is a single platform propietary solution that is mostly-undocumented and restricted via patents"
Actually, you're way off on that. The .NET Framework's runtime (the CLI), along with the C# language, are ECMA standards. (http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/sscli/). I have compiled the .NET Framework on a Mac OSX (this was over two years ago to boot, so it's not a new thing), written a C# app on my PC, copied the EXE (not the source, but the actual compiled binary) to the Mac.
And it ran.
On a cross-platform, standardized, documented solution.
Other links:
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-335.htm
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm - tempusrob, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I hate it when people call .NET a programming language.
- mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah im going to get VS 2005 later this year.
- msheppard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Just did some Dot Net Team server training, and I gotta say, the platform has made some major leaps and bounds in the past year. Someone has really been listening to what developer's need, and a TON of it is in the next round. The IDE has always been one of the best, and it's just become a TON better.
- Stopher, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"This just in: I'm underpaid."
That's how every always feels.
Of course, about half of us are making below the average and the other half is making above it.=) - CactusPenguin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I just recently ported my c++ game demo to VS2005. I tried to redeploy it by copying the exe and all dependent dlls. Unfortunately you have to install some of the new core c-runtime dlls to a special sys directory. This requires a special installer to be built. The funniest thing was that the msi installer created by VS2005 requires .Net.
Thus, if I build my native c++ app with VS2005, I have to have my clients install .Net to run it.
This is simply not acceptable. I am going back to gcc/mingw/emacs. I will say that the intellisense code completion was outstanding. It even works with templates.
I am targeting Mac/Linux/Windows so .Net is simply not an option. Plus I am a die-hard c++ advocate. IMHO If you are a career developer targeting high-performance, c++ is outstanding.
- antdude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1dirtyfratboy: Find bugs, test software, etc.
- motionblur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0ASP.NET 2.0 all the way. PHP 5 with OOP is great too.
- shade73, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Not to mention it requires you to install the .NET framework.
- micromause, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've said it before, I'll say it again... .NET>Java=True and just wait five more years... =D
- Dogtown7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"75k-85k is way high in my neck of the woods. In Colorado, you will start out at apx 45k and maybe reach 70k after 10 years. But the cost of living offsets that nicely. Housing is still dirt cheap out here. A brand new 3000 sq ft (huge) house in a new development may only run you $250k."
In the bay area, 3000 sq ft would be over $1 mill easily. To buy a home, you'd need a median household income of about $150k+. And that is for a home much smaller than 3000ft. Most families cannot afford a home even with the higher salaries. Usually there is somekind of wealth transfer from parent to child, or 2+ well-paid professionals go in together that allow these kinds of prices to exist.
However, a little known fact is that you can rent for about 60% of what the 30yr mortgage is. IMHO, buying a house in the bay is plain stupid. Rent and take the $1500 you save and invest in stocks for the time being. That's better than losing $100,000 next year as inflation increases and mortage rates increase. - prthealien, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Cool to know. I'm downloading the SDK right now.
- mesohorny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0***** story. Just go onto Dice and search for asp or .Net or dotnet or csharp, and by far Java beats it hands down. Go pick a state, I did NJ - ".Net" 600 jobs including ASP type, Java 910 jobs. Proof is in the numbers.
- CaughtThinking, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Misleading story. Around here (DC) a huge hub of tech jobs are Java, you can't hire em for less than 75K. some contracting to govt positions for up to 300K a year. I wont stoop to a .net vs. java discussion, because that battle is already won.
I'm not anti-m$ either, my main box is XP, and I love Avant, a browser built off of ie.
300K a year for Java though. Sound good to anyone? - JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0... The other four are Linux developers, Hardware compatibility experts, code porters, and microsoft-savvy hackers.
- Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah, and you stand to make approximately twice as much as a COBOL programmer. Who cares?
- itwax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0and , after some govt. formality , it is tax free in India.
I am going to clone gaim in .net.
somebody here thinking to hire me at $2.5k pm ? - MrKite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I love C# and .NET. It lets me focus on the business logic and not spend too much time on the things that you do over and over when you build an application. I've been a C/C++ developer for 20 years and this is just an awesome technology to work with. Although a similar platform, I'm not a big fan of Java.
- CocoaDeveloper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah man, I am not a huge fan of Microsoft by any means... in fact I hate them. But you have to admit the .NET Framework is pretty sweet. I work at a company that develops for both Windows and Mac (I am obvioulsy on the Mac side developing in Cocoa with Obj-C) and the two IDE's are pretty similar. And the C# language is pretty good - I mean you can't really screw yourself too bad with it. I used to do a lot of work with C++, but the .NET development with it kind of takes the best parts away and makes you use some mangled syntax, the managed extensions really kill the best part of the language. If youre going to develop in .NET you should probably use C# - its the same thing that Cocoa does to Java... You can use it, but its not as great at Obj-C, its native language. Anyway... I have never heard a programmer say that he/she is overpaid. We are all pretty bitter no matter what we are programming in.
- sinitom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hi,
I am Sini Thomas, working for a web based start up company in California.My company is in the look out for a talented C#,.Net Programmer well versed with photo album development. To enquire more about the job, Please mail me at sthomas@acquireo.com.
Pay rate is attractive.
Thanks,
-Sini - chadseld, on 10/12/2007, -0/+075k-85k is way high in my neck of the woods. In Colorado, you will start out at apx 45k and maybe reach 70k after 10 years. But the cost of living offsets that nicely. Housing is still dirt cheap out here. A brand new 3000 sq ft (huge) house in a new development may only run you $250k.
- CocoaDeveloper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0And another thing Vonnegut, do you read lips!
rodney dangerfield, where art thou? - ZeonFlash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Or you could live in a backwoods state like one of the Dakotas and get less than half that salary. I'd give up using IF statements to be making at least 40k.
- SniperGX1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is awesome, now in a couple years you will make tons of money converting .NET to something thats non proprietary *****
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