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156 Comments
- RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -14/+116If anything will defeat Muslim extremism, it is economic freedom. When people in the middle east see what Dubai has achieved, they will demand change. They will ask themselves why they are living under horrible conditions while their neighbors are prospering.
And nothing stamps out radicalism like food, money, material comforts, a job, a mortage, and a family whose future you feel hopeful about. - Enitime, on 10/12/2007, -0/+49And they're not just any old buildings under construction there. The Dubai Tower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Dubai is coming along nicely. It's slated for completion in 18 months.
When it's done it'll be 800m tall. That's about as tall as the World Trade Center Towers were...
...had they been stacked on top of each other. - pseudojd, on 10/12/2007, -19/+57once people can have porn and booz they will never go back
- drgordonfreeman, on 10/12/2007, -8/+33Unfortunately Dubai suffers from many of the same problems as the rest of the Middle East when it comes to human rights (esp. women's rights). It's more progressive than some places, but nothing close to what you'd expect in the Western world.
- WeThePeople, on 10/12/2007, -6/+27Worlds fastest growing city thanks to just about slave labor, but yeah sure it looks real cool, and hopefully will supply some jobs that might pay fair wages.
It just makes me sad to see governments and multinational corporations only paying these hard workers as little as 12 dollars a day. Thats not really the bad part, the bad part has been the poor treatment, long hours, and poor living conditions cramped with lots of other workers. All to provide the wealthy with the lap of luxury.
I'm not against the rich, I'm against the disgusting greed that's just over the top, I know we need the rich, but the crumbs off their tables are getting mighty small.
Paying wages is one thing, but treatment and abuse is altogether another issue, hopefully things are changing, I do think the UAE president has made some new reforms.
Buildings do look nice. - jayleb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21I live in Dubai..The link (flickr.com) is blocked here. As well as many others
http://www.opennetinitiative.net/studies/uae/
'Nuff said - aamer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Oil is no longer the largest source of Dubai's income, tourism is. Also, since only around 20% of Dubai residents are actually citizens, your claim about citizens living off of welfare may not be as relevant as you think.
- shiftt, on 10/12/2007, -24/+38it's taken so long because most of the people in the middle east are content with what they have, Dubai is an exception
it's stupid to assume people in the middle east lived in ***** before this.
It's our silly "western world philosophy" that says that to be happy we need fast cards, tall buildings, and junk food everywhere we go. - Jonny5alive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Would be great if it wasn't being built by Asian workers that are only paid $50-100 a month.
And building skyscrapers is easy. But they've forgotten to build any human elements into the city.
Every road is a 6 lane highway and the buildings are all 20m apart so it takes an age to get anywhere on foot.
And forget about using public transport because there isn't any. - redneckblues, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Snakes on a Crane. Come on. You know you like it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19A lot of people in Dubai are very very rich... "foreigners" are not the only rich people in the world.
That's why the city can grow so fast. - darkclarity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13There three types of people in Dubai. 1. The very rich foreigners/expats who live a pretty much separate life from everyone else there - with very little hassle from the strict religious rules. 2. The highly powerful people from the locality who control most of it from laws to land ownership. 3. The poor people who come from Africa, India, Eastern Europe etc that are stuck there building the place for next to nothing and living in big slums in the outskirts. Oh and loads of tourists who want to experience the life of the rich.
- rishubhav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Its getting so big that the have to make islands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Islands
- drgordonfreeman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17@AlexApetrei
"Like democracy, capitalism, for all its defects, is the best system anyone can think of." -- Hugo Young
What is your alternative suggestion, by the way? - johndi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I've been to Dubai several times. It's a lot more open than you think. You can buy both pork and alcohol there, and you will see both local and foreigner couples holding hands as they are walking in the mall. They even have a water park called Wild Wadi where women can wear bathing suits. Dubai started it's transformation away from oil after the Middle East got hammered in 1985.
http://www.wildwadi.com/
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002131522_dubai27.html - reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I grew up in Abu Dhabi, which is the capital of UAE. Pretty impressive city, but Dubai is a much more well-known city. They have this area called "The Internet City", where companies like Microsoft, Oracle and some other big tech companies have set up their offices. I can't recall much about it since it's been a few years(Since I'm not an Arab and therefore not a local, once you turn 18 you can only get in on a visit visa or get a job.)
Dubai is much more open than most Muslim countries, but at it's base it still is a Muslim country. 'Brokeback Mountain' was banned there in theaters since it doesn't conform to Islamic laws. You cannot own property there unless you are a citizen(And the only way you can become one is if you marry a local citizen or get a really high government job, which is really difficult to get).
The only way you can access the internet there is the government's own ISP. This means that you can't access websites which they find objectional (Porn, etc.) Of course not all websites are blocked.
I haven't visited Dubai myself for about 3 years now, but my friends and family tell me that it has changed a LOT. I still can't bear the horrible summer weather there though.
Btw, some of you might be interested to know that Star Wars Episode II opened in UAE a day BEFORE it officially opened in the US. - reject, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Actually, the growth of Dubai is pushing out the natives to the outskirts of the city. This type of thing is common for cities that are "booming" economically, in that the traditions of a city and a culture are usually 'revamped' to fit the ideals of a Western world. Don't hate, it's the truth.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/44DF9E3A-72BB-4DDC-941E-A05421D9C02B.htm - aetherFox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Dubai has almost run out of oil. It's money comes through a clever implementation of hidden taxes, tourism and real estate, along with the monopolies it places on markets like the telecommunications sector.
Oh, and I live there, - angryredplanet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Holy crap... people are actually going to live/work in that thing??
Even the artists rendition is blowing my mind. That is some amazing stuff. - noneloud, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Um, Alex? "If you build it they will come is from "field of dreams": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097351/
Not quite the bible, I don't think. - JurneyAhed, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai
" Dubai is distinct from other members of the UAE in that revenues from oil account for only 6% of its gross domestic product"
And also, have you ever been to Dubai? Welfare is unheard of - the govt. don't give a crap about you if you're poor.
I'm not slamming them or anything, but that's how it is. Some will argue that that's good, others won't. - frem001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7yeah that's true... if it wasn't for the taxi's and hotel buses you'd have to own/rent a car to get around. Another problem is that it get's so hot that walking to a building down the road is a mission.
- redneckblues, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Why walk when you can afford a hovercraft and a private jet?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8My question is, how do you put out a fire that's 800m straight up?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai
" Dubai is distinct from other members of the UAE in that revenues from oil account for only 6% of its gross domestic product. A majority of the emirate's revenues are from the Jebel Ali Free Zone (JAFZ) [1] and now, increasingly, from tourism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebel_Ali_Free_Zone
"Jebel Ali Free Zone (JAFZ) is located in the Jebel Ali area of the emirate of Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates. It offers an economic zone with lucrative business and tax incentives to corporations. The Jebel Ali Free Zone is run by the Jebel Ali Free Zone Authority (JAFZA). The JAFZ also caters to the Dubai Port which ranks 13th in the world in terms of container traffic [1]."
My question now is, how exactly does it make revenue from a zone that offers lucrative business and tax incentives??? Aside from that, read up on the wiki about Dubai. Lots of interesting tidbits about construction, history etc. Too much stuff to post here :) - kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6When a city becomes a "host" for some large, visible event in the US it's quite common for the police to "relocate" the homeless to the outskirts of the city on a daily basis. I'm not saying it's a good thing, just pointing out that it's common.
- TopherT, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Wow, who's ever heard of profits from natural resources going to the people who originally lived there. Unheard of since before the days of imperialism.
- neozeed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Bigger than NYC? Let me know when they get 8 million people into Edmonton.
- Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4A tsunami would be devastating looking at some of those pics...or rising seawater.
- affanjam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4So thats what the do with all that sand
- scoot87, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14This is crazy, how many people can afford to live in those types of places that aren't foreigners or princes or royal government people?
- irwhiteboi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Sorry the the last things New Yorkers worry about is Crime and Racism ;-) Crime and racims are extremely minor problems in NY.
- johndi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Dubai's economy is far more diverse than you think. As previously stated their oil revenues are down to 6%. The tax incentives aren't going away any time soon. Why do you think so many multi-nationals have offices their?
www.usatoday.com/marketplace/ibi/dubai.htm - kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9I think it would be going too far to characterize some of the comments here as racism, but it comes close. Here we have a city, in the middle east, with things like theme parks, an "Internet City", a future media production zone and other aspects that will absolutely require a certain amount of intellectual , social and religious diversity/tolerance. And all some of you can talk about is the oil angle, or Muslim extremism. How about a few pats on the back instead? How about just a little bit of recognition?
At the very least, try to read a bit about the area before commenting. I did. And I was
as guilty as anyone of certain prejudices. With progress comes opportunity for things like freedom and tolerance.
And if the city or area has an official religion, the existence of christian churches
would seem to defy this idea.
http://ship-of-fools.com/Mystery/2004/830.html
http://www.indexuae.com/Top/Religion/Christianity
We should applaud progress in the area, not fear it. - tabledesk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Actually, New York is probably the best example of a city WITHOUT racism.
And regarding crime:
"In 1995, for example, overall crime in New York City dropped by 15% from the prior year, according to statistics released by the FBI. While this decline is consistent with an overall decrease in crime throughout the country, New York's drop is rather remarkable when compared with the 2% drop in Dallas and Detroit and the 4% drop in LA. This decrease is part of an ongoing trend in New York. Crime had been falling a bit each year since the late 1980s, but in the last couple of years, it seems as though the numbers have gone into a free-fall with double digit drops across the board. The falling rates have continued through 2004, resulting in the lowest crime rates in NYC since the 1960s."
From http://www.theinsider.com/nyc/survive/011crime.htm - jpwhitmore, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Looks like something out of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.
- 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Where does the money come from? What I've seen of the area shows it as a desert. I can't imagine anything besides oil wealth driving this growth. Given that, it seems to be a city destined to fall to ruin in the future when the oil money dries up.
- frem001, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4from what i've heard (when i went there on holiday) you can't actually own land unless you are a citizen. I'm sure that by the time oil runs out the tax incentives won't be that great... especially when they can't generate the power required to power all their powerhungry buildings.
- neozeed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4subway stabings, bill 101, small sidewalks, and blistering cold.. Yeah. Not to mention all the seperatists have sucessfully driven any serious business into Toronto, Calgary & Vancover. Montreal's downfall is that its in Quebec.
- BKDotCom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3For perspective:
One World Trade Center 417m
Two World Trade Center 415m - HisTumness, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9@iwa87:
Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (KJV) - "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."
That's what the Bible says at least... I don't think the Koran has a book equivalent to Deuteronomy, but I think ejm508's point is still valid. All of the Abrahamic religions have historically treated women very badly and Islam in the middle east has made much less progress than Christianity in the democratized world. - Chopper3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6if "nothing stamps out radicalism like food, money, material comforts, a job, a mortage, and a family whose future you feel hopeful about" how do you explain the worrying rise of Christian radicalism/fundamentalism that is going on in the US today?
- there, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"If only more governments in the middle east would practice this kind of selfless-ness."
If only a few more Americans would notice this is why the rest of the world is fast catching up. Europeans are now sending probes to other planets and building massive supercolliders... while the US has abandoned projects and a half functional shuttle. China is building massive hydroelectric projects and maglev trains... while U.S. consumers whine about gas prices and take crappy trains to work.
And now even Dubai has built a city from nothing in twenty years... will NY is still debating the "freedom tower".
Capitalism isn't terrible but the "greed is good" and "I am a trader" mentality that has run rampant in America is.
Consumers are more interested in protecting the rights of freeloader Hollywood execs that produce nothing and want to be payed over and over for the same piece of artist work... instead of the actual physical items that improve our lives everyday. Everyone is so busy trying to make it big by trading up their tiny red paperclips ( http://oneredpaperclip.blogspot.com/ ) instead of understanding we are all part of a larger picture.
Amazing what can be accomplished when the human spirit is willing to compromise and sometimes work together to a common good. Nice to see a positive middle east story for once too. We can't trust western media for these stories anymore because "we are the greatest" dontcha know. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7What kind of historical foundations do you propose?
- dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3 Not people, the area of the city itself. On second thought it's probably Calgary, I forget where I read that fact.
Hey I found it (it was Calgary), it was Wikipedia, go figure. Here is the quote:
"The city proper covers a land area of 721 km2 (as of 2001) and as such exceeds the land areas of both Toronto and New York City (an additional 150 km2 are under negotiation)." - aamer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5As I mentioned in a previous comment, oil is no longer the largest source of income for Dubai. Dubai has done a better job (as compared to surrounding gulf countries) in modernizing their economy. They become quite diversified and depend on a variety of industries for their income -- some notable ones are tourism, shopping/retail, and banking/finance. They have been trying to promote IT as another selling point with their own version of Silicon Valley, but it has not taken off so far, though there may be some potential there in the future.
- PSUViking, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Wow, a defense of slave labor in 2006, now I've seen everything.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I understand, and you're completely right - but unfortunately the developers don't really care that the industry should create the tourism.
Yet, you can't say that the city has no history. Wait 200 years, look back, and tell me it has no history :) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You're right, 7 stars. Here are some pics but they don't even do it justice. http://www.damnfunnypictures.com/html/The-Burj-Al-Arab-Hotel.html
- peregrine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@mikesty
"Jebel Ali Free Zone (JAFZ) is located in the Jebel Ali area of the emirate of Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates. It offers an economic zone with lucrative business and tax incentives to corporations. The Jebel Ali Free Zone is run by the Jebel Ali Free Zone Authority (JAFZA). The JAFZ also caters to the Dubai Port which ranks 13th in the world in terms of container traffic [1]."
My question now is, how exactly does it make revenue from a zone that offers lucrative business and tax incentives???
heres the answer. The lucative business is tourism, shipping, and 'worker'(slaves). The Tax incentives is what really gets this thing going.
In my small town and probablly around America we call these tax incentives 'tif districts' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_increment_financing. This basically a fancy way of saying If you build your business and bring jobs in we will give you a tax break and help you out financially. Its extremely effective and has the poetential to pull in hundreds of jobs and economy. Heres an example my city Waupaca, Wi has gone from 3000 people 3 years ago to 5000 people. This is the result of new business and jobs created in tif districts.
Really if anyone is interested in this stuff go to some city council meetings or something I get paid to tape them for local access so I know alot about government :).
Tif Districts baby! -
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