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- LordSkywalker, on 06/16/2008, -6/+165Here's some *****: "Women would rather build a system that didn't crash in the first place, but men enjoy that diving catch and have a system of support that allows them to go out on a limb."
- GorfTron, on 06/16/2008, -9/+155Tech jobs can be hard-core with terrible management and stress. Programmers are arrogant and abrasive. Why? Because they can be. As a man, I can seriously say that nobody mentored me or held my hand. It has been all hard knocks. I have to learn new stuff daily with no direction. I don't know if women like this or not. Also, the biggest pay increases were when I quit for more money. I don't think women like to do this. I will change companies in a second for a substantial raise. I don't care if the day care is worse or the drive is a little longer.
- RevoltPuppy, on 06/16/2008, -3/+102Gee, the technology sector is hostile to women? We certainly don't see that here on Digg.
- Checkerd, on 06/16/2008, -10/+102http://xkcd.com/385/
- orlyfactor, on 06/16/2008, -6/+95FTA: "A woman cannot survive a failure." A bunch of my ex's are still alive. What gives?
- inactive, on 06/16/2008, -13/+82It's ridiculous for women to complain about being treated unequally but when men treat them as they would any other man turn around and claim sexual harassment.
- fluidfoundation, on 06/16/2008, -12/+74I hate to use this example, but we have gone through 3 women in my little group here who quit because they thought "the boys" were treating them different which couldnt be further from the truth. Each fit a profile, single mom, former higher position in a previous company coming back down, and workaholic.
- Zorkon, on 06/16/2008, -1/+54My girlfriend comes from a technical family, has a degree in chemistry and went back to school to do a 3 year compsci program. Now that she's working in computers & tech, I've noticed that she is sometimes her own worst enemy.
I'm amazed at how she can *analyze* every little thing that happens in her workday. When she comes home in the evening, she replays the entire workday in her head, and stresses about things that were said/done, or not said/done, or should have been said/done. Every day. What would seem like an insignificant watercooler conversation to me, takes on multiple dimensions of importance and nuance to her.
I don't know if this behaviour is particular to her, or if it's a common trait amongst women in IT. If so, I can see why the dropout rate is so high. I know that I couldn't work like that without burning out. At some point you need to shut off the day job and enjoy your life. - Bronowyn, on 06/16/2008, -5/+55As a women in a tech (IT) field, I just ignore the off-color jokes that the others in my department joke about. Because I'm in a client-facing position, I don't feel the isolation as much, but I definitely feel like I'm the odd man out on my team, as if they are all talking about strategies that I'm not aware of, paranoia about the "boys club" that seems to exist in IT especially. I have actually done better in teams that are more the "geeky" IT groups, rather than the type of men I'm working with now.
I will say that managers in IT in general suck. No people skills, generally humongous JERKS. I know my boss is surely one of the bad bosses, but I've encountered either jerky bosses, sexual harassment bosses, or socially inept bosses throughout my IT career. I hope I encounter another boss in the future that don't fit the first two I think that the boss thing alone is the only reason why I might leave this career path. But I'm so good at it, I can't see me wasting my skills. - inactive, on 06/16/2008, -8/+53FTA: "...condescending attitudes, lots of off-color jokes, sexual innuendo"
So, tell me then, what job sector does this not happen in? - inactive, on 06/16/2008, -5/+49"Women would rather build a system that didn't crash in the first place, but men enjoy that diving catch and have a system of support that allows them to go out on a limb."
And men would rather not build a system that didn't crash in the first place because they can take a chance to save it later? *****. - SymbolicChaos, on 06/16/2008, -1/+41I concur. Give me a system that works properly and efficiently for the next 10 years before it's out-of-date, and I'm a happy camper. If it doesn't, I'll try to change it, but only so far as I have to so I can be lazy again. The lazy gene is absurdly non-discriminatory, btw.
- orlyfactor, on 06/16/2008, -8/+47Yep all 5 of them are gone now :(
- Kenzan, on 06/16/2008, -9/+46So according to the article, women can't hack it, so they just give up and become baby factories.
I call shenanigans. - wynja, on 06/16/2008, -36/+72I graduated from a CS program with several women that have since left the CS field. Personally, I feel it has to do with the way women and men are hard wired. Yes, that's stereotyping, but there's a reason we have stereotypes in the first place. Also, obviously there are going to be exception to the rule.
- Raptor007, on 06/16/2008, -5/+37"Programmers are arrogant and abrasive."
God, tell me about it! I was asking for help in a forum once when dabbing with a language I'd never used before, and I got torn apart by the "good form police" without actually getting my questions answered.
We're not ALL that way though; at my university, my fellow CS-majors and I were all pretty nice. Maybe people are just a whole lot worse over the internet. - JCPahl, on 06/16/2008, -12/+39I love how this article started with the mandatory opening paragraph about how smart and glorious women are. OF COURSE the only reason a women would quit a tech job would be all the evil men keeping her down! Is there any problem for which evil men are *not* responsible? Give me a break.
- sg1fan, on 06/16/2008, -7/+34Agree. Women are too sensitive and I think many of them realize that they can cry 'harassment' and get someone else into trouble or be handed a promotion because of it... instead of just trying to work hard and do their job. And before someone diggs me down: I am a woman, a software developer for 11 years now. I love it. I thought about changing jobs, but not leave the field.
- MindTrigger, on 06/16/2008, -4/+30Well, I have worked in IT for 15 years now, and I get what they were trying to say. If you work in a tech environment that is not strict, then techs like to "try things". Things like nnconventional uses of software/hardware, messing around with untested code/apps in production environment, putting game servers on company equipment, and just general 'geeking the ***** out' for the fun of it, or to solve a one-off problem. It's called thinking outside the box.
Stuff like this is what separates the true tech geniuses from the network admin janitors. To me the people who just play it safe are more like tech janitors. They keep the network running smooth, and they clean up the messes the end users ***** out onto their computers. The people who are taking chances and pushing the envelope are the ones who move tech forward. - lofispy, on 06/16/2008, -4/+29Hate to say it, but that's just how it is for everybody...man or women. Ya, geeks and techheads can be especially abrasive, but again, that's just how it is for everybody. Equality is a two-way street...
- houndeyex, on 06/17/2008, -6/+30I think the article said, "Blah blah blah sexual harassment quit"
- l815, on 06/16/2008, -11/+34From my experience, many of those accusations are not true. I admit there are some pretty pig headed guys out there, but you can't blame the entire male populous for half a breeds egotistical nuisance.
In my college courses, not many women are in, if any. It's not because they are harassed, it's because they believed it would bring them a good job, later for them to find out it bores them. (only from my experience).
Now the other women who enjoy their job as a techie, a piece of advice from the male genus. Deal with it.
Men are pig heads to each other all the time. Don't think you are any different. And don't boast to me how friendly women can be when acquainted with their female comrades. They can be just as hard as a man.
So to close off this little rant, we are all man per-say. If you wanted opportunities, you've been offered. If you can't deal with the environment, leave and find another, or learn to suck it up.
I don't mean to be rude, but it had to be said. - diggduggDOOM, on 06/16/2008, -9/+31I literally dislike the misuse of the word "literally."
- schneidafunk, on 06/16/2008, -32/+53If you can't take the heat, get into the kitchen.
- geneticlone, on 06/16/2008, -4/+24Seriously, I wish it wasn't the case. I would love to see more women around the engineering and IT jobs. I am sure many men would agree, and frankly I would never discourage them from their ambitions. However, since the vast majority of humans in these fields are men I can see why they would discouraged to continue on with such jobs.
- mllawso, on 06/17/2008, -0/+20If I treated my female coworkers the same as my male coworkers, I'd be fired.
- Neekolazz, on 06/16/2008, -2/+21Must have been you failing...
- lordtyros, on 06/16/2008, -6/+24You mean females literally transform into a different species?
- Acglaphotis, on 06/16/2008, -2/+19There is an xkcd for every occasion!
- RobotBuddha, on 06/17/2008, -2/+19Only 63%? I'm hardly exceptionally good looking, and even as a male I've experienced sexual harassment within a couple years of graduating(from all genders and sexual orientations). As for while "in" school, how could anyone even get past their freshman year without some comment that would technically be considered harassment. The term itself is overused to the point of being somewhat meaningless now.
- synik, on 06/16/2008, -20/+35Whine whine whine. The article claims it is sexism, women not being able to cope with failure, and long hours.
Sounds like a big cop out to me. - inactive, on 06/16/2008, -2/+17Terrible...but hilarious.
- Kohaxx, on 06/16/2008, -2/+16As an IT guy, I never understood the need for off-color jokes, we're not allowed to make racist jokes so why make sexist jokes?
- kungfuboi, on 06/16/2008, -63/+77Back to the kitchen
- SirTheGuy, on 06/16/2008, -1/+15A very accurate analogy
- UnforgedNoobah, on 06/17/2008, -1/+15This ***** makes no ***** sense, whoever came up with that statement has spent too long in an easy chair spewing out *****.
Im a YOUNG LAZY male, and i would rather setup my parents network the right way the first time so i dont have to spend time trying to fix it.
I know plenty of women who do ***** halfass... - superkendall, on 06/16/2008, -4/+17I've worked in a lot of different environments from large companies to small, and I just don't see the attitude described in the article of people thinking women are inferior.
Now off color remarks and such, I'll grant you that happens all the time and there's no real good solution to that. But if women can get over being offended by off the cuff remarks males sometimes make, there's no reason they cannot be well respected at work - when the do good work, just like anyone else. - krazikamikaze, on 06/17/2008, -1/+14The whole article has this women are better than men so men conspire to drive women out of tech vibe, just look at the "hero" comment. It's like this person doesn't understand the super fast pace of technological innovation. If you spend five years perfecting a piece of software it'll be ancient history by the time you release it.
"And if you're surrounded by men who don't appreciate you, that can be corrosive." Right, every male in tech is a sexist pig. Is this person trying to dispel stereotypes or encourage them? I really can't tell.
"The third thing is that, for many women, the career path is all very mysterious because they don't have mentors or sponsors or folks looking out for them." Welcome to tech. It's a tough world for men and women. You need to know how to teach yourself if you're going to be successful.
I've never said anything to discourage women from the tech field, but I get really annoyed when people who don't understand technology try to change the field because women generally don't enjoy it. Any sort of sexism is of course disgusting and has to stop, but tech is a tough, merit-based career. You don't get graded for effort and that's never going to change. Instead these people should be figuring out ways to encourage more women to enter tech by showing them the cool things you can do.
Here's another article relating to this: http://www.american.com/archive/2008/march-april-m ...
The stuff about Title IX in tech was particularly disturbing. - fluidfoundation, on 06/17/2008, -3/+16There are different areas to treat women different them men in order to act like a gentleman and treat them like a lady.
Business is not one of them. I will chew the hell out of one of my female coworkers when she ***** up, just like I would a male coworker. But I'll still hold the door open for her when I tell her to get the ***** out of my office. - ElusiveByte, on 06/16/2008, -3/+16OMFG. I couldn't believe it when I read that.
- 1337chic, on 06/16/2008, -1/+13There are a lot of groups out there that women can get involved with to find mentors if they choose to. I was heavily involved with the Women in Engineering groups in college, and have continued that involvement now that I've taken the a job as a Software Engineer.
There might be more men in IT than women, but there are ways of finding support systems. If you live in a sizable city, start a peer group in the city that meets once a month (an ACM-W chapter would be perfect). The mentor thing is huge, and having groups like ACM-W really helps beat this. If you don't live in a big enough city, these groups have conferences across the country multiple times a year, or you could get involved with a local college with CS as a major and be a mentor yourself. I have helped out with teaching my girls in my local community to use computers at community centers. Another good option is MentorNet (http://www.mentornet.net/).
Now if we could just get more of those guys some women so they weren't so damn horny all the time ;) I'm doing my part guys; I'm dating a fellow programmer. - orlyfactor, on 06/16/2008, -3/+15http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040319h. ...
- anchora, on 06/17/2008, -2/+14I've always been a sort of unconventional woman, in both my interests and general personality. I honestly don't care if guys tell stupid sex jokes, I'll probably laugh with them. I've had several jobs that I left simply because I felt I was stagnating in them, and so far every job I've gotten has had higher pay than the last. (I'm a CS major.) I do think it's due to my basic difference from most women that I've succeeded thus far. I don't know if I had a point with this post, but I really hope this article isn't describing my future.
- louiebaur, on 06/16/2008, -11/+23Wow that is a lot of women dropping out
- 1337chic, on 06/16/2008, -1/+13Hun, that isn't women in IT, that is women everywhere. They did that when I worked at a grocery store in high school. I wanted to grab them and shake them and say "The only advantage to a minimum wage job is you shouldn't take it home!"
Men do it to a certain extent too, but they tend to limit it to when things aren't going well I think. - Ahnteis, on 06/17/2008, -2/+13Did you READ the article? Because that was addressed directly.
- inactive, on 06/17/2008, -0/+11"modeling"
LOL all those guys are gay - and especially the old queens that run it!
Never wonder why those catwalk bitches are so thin? So they can look like boys... - wynja, on 06/16/2008, -6/+17BS, the women I know who have quite the tech field have done so because they don't like to be so isolated. They have moved on to jobs where they interact with others on a regular basis.
In fact, the best IT manager I've ever had is a woman. - Kohaxx, on 06/16/2008, -0/+11My personal opinion is it has everything to do with the need to prove yourself in the technology field. Programmers feel the need to belittle each other's coding styles because so many are unique to the writer and so often what one person finds the "obvious" solution, another person won't see and go about it a way that is "obvious" to them. The alpha male/alpha female issue was a problem at my old workplace, and I can see why a lot of people in general would just get fed up and leave. Especially when the manager has been removed from the work and doesn't understand what you're doing but is making the promotion/hiring decisions.
- dboone74, on 06/16/2008, -7/+17The use of the word "literally" preceeding a metaphor is a pet peeve of mine. I expressed this to a group of college educated peers and was met with empty stares. Don't people know the definition of the word literally? Do people think it is superlative?
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