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- crombenevolant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4One word: Quality.
The HD DVR your cable company will give you at little or no cost is the cheapest HD box that can possibly be built. This makes sense for them as they give it away. The TiVo on the other hand is aimed at the market of people who are after HD for the higher quality, not just the novelty. They use the highest grade components, and it is the only DVR that is THX certified. - Lynxpro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ consonance.
1. I was not talking about Series2 TiVo's. The Series3 TiVo - that being the HD capable standalone TiVo - is very expensive, clocking in at $799. It would not be that difficult for Apple to build a more capable unit for that price or less by using the Mac Mini as the platform instead of the proprietary TiVo hardware, especially due to Apple's economies of scale.
2. You are incorrect. There are several reports online that state the problem preventing TiVo from being profitable is due to its inability to bring down component costs. Check out their SEC filings.
3. A .Mac subscription is cheaper than paying $12.99 or $16.99 per month for the TiVo service.
4. No, using the Mac Mini hardware as a replacement for the Series 3 would not alienate the TiVo fanbase. The front end GUI could still remain TiVo-ish and the majority of the customers would not have to explore further into OS X land if they did not want to. As for your suggestion in terms of removing the hard drive capabilities, TiVo does not even allow for that with the Series 3 anymore. Just like the current Mac Mini line, the Series 3 has an external SATA port for adding additional hard drive capabilities to it. There is no difference.
5. Stop bringing up the Series2 line to base your logic on. The Series2 is not the future of TiVo; the success of the Series 3 and deals like the porting of TiVo software to the Motorola DVR set top boxes for Comcast and Cablevision are. - wicketr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I doubt anything will happen with TIVO until the courts decide if TIVO owns the rights to the DVR technology. TIVO is going to be worth big bucks or chump change depending on that ruling.
- kelly, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Why can't Tivo remain independent?
- consonance, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@Lynxpro
No. There are several reasons Apple shouldn't do what you say.
1. Tivo's lack of profitability stems not from component costs but from bad management. It was not until 2006 that Tivo finally got its act together. If you consider the hardware costs, Tivos do not cost enough to make acquisition specifically for reduced hardware prices worthwhile. The marginal cost to acquire Tivo would be greater than the marginal cost to purchase hardware in larger units of bulk.
2. Turning the Tivo into a Mac Mini box would enrage at least half of Tivo's customers. Replacing Tivos with MMs woud make it impossible to remove the shipped hard drive and install one with a larger capacity. Not to mention that MMs are more expensive than Tivos. Walk into a Circuit City, and you will find Series 2 Tivos going for $200 or so. Yes, Series 3 Tivos are selling at $800, but given some time, the price will come down. Given that the Series 3 is the only DVR that has dual HD tuners, Tivo is taking some liberties with its prices.
3. What you are saying makes no sense. Why would anyone want to cancel Tivo's monthly fees? That's its main source of revenue. For Google to cancel the subscription costs would be to cancel a revenue stream for an arbitrary reason. Also, integrating the listings into the .Mac service would infuriate most Tivo owners. Most Tivo owners are PC owners. Making the Tivo into an Apple product would alienate most of the customer base. Loyal Tivo owners would be left high and dry, and the lost revenue would leave Tivo in dire straits. - Solstice, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Nobody. TiVo has a serious legacy cost problem, which would be a liability for whatever company purchases them. It costs real money to continue to service users that bought the lifetime service on their series I boxes years ago and haven't moved on. Eventually they'll have to when their hardware dies or TiVo cuts the cord. However, it's doubtful that they'll move on to another TiVo unless they are offered another lifetime package. They bought the lifetime package in the first place because they thought that the monthly charge was either a hassle, a ripoff, or both. It'll be a tough sell to get them to switch over - especially when there are alternatives out there that are "good enough".
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2No they don't. They were partnered for a while, but DirectTV backed out.
- drlha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Except that DirecTV's latest DVR is of their own design and doesn't run TiVo software. DirecTV is getting out of the TiVo business, its recently signed an agreement with TiVo to support their boxes for a while and still sells them, but eventually they won't.
- zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Microsoft already has four living room invading technologies.
The Xbox 1 the Xbox2 the cancelled Microsoft ultimate TV pvr,
Windows XP media center pvr, Web tv.
It would make little sense for them to pile another company on top of this pile
of crap as they fight to take more money from the consumer. - jericho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2TiVo has offered Lifetime subscription transfers to their Series 1 customers. I was one of them and transferred my subscription over to a Series 2 when they came out. Now that Series 3 is out, TiVo has offered again to transfer Lifetime Subscriptions, albeit for a cost of $199. It's great at getting those early adopters to purchase the new machines. And for the true TiVo fan, there are no alternatives that are "good enough."
If an Internet company were to purchase them, I would think Yahoo! would be at the top of the list. They already carry Yahoo! weather, movie listings, traffic and photo slideshow content. That said, I think there's a stronger chance that they will partner with other companies like the much rumored movie download service in partnership with Netflix. - mjparker75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Game consoles are going to do this- Wii and PS3's browsers will both let people browse YouTube and other sites. It'd be nice if my TIVO had the capability to add video RSS streams though. It already has partners like CNET that will upload their programming to TIVO. Google needs to stay right where they are at- why partner with TIVO and alienate all non-TIVO people. Just keep the content open to anybody who can figure out how to get internet on their TV.
- mtekk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2And what you describe would be a HTPC (Home Theater PC), so no the computer won't be dieing out, for the masses it will just evolve.
- whosmatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2it allows you to move the content around. you can move content between different tivo boxes, or to a pc, burn to dvd... and, you can watch content from other places on the tivo. for example, i can download video, convert it to tivo's format, and stream it from my pc into my living room using the tivo as a viewer...
- gmerin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I would love to see Microsoft purchase and redistribute Tivo, thereby giving tacit approval to Linux over Windows Media Center. ;)
- jakatak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The best thing would be for Netflix to partner with Tivo ro buy them out. Now you can have netflix on demand and save millions on postage costs. Now netflix doesn't care how many movies you watch a day. It's all electronic. You put your order in in the morning and it's on your tivo within two hours. way better then getting movies via pony express and less change of my DAMN MAILMAN STEALING MY MOVIES, WATCHING THEM, THEN PUTTING THEM IN MY MAILBOX OPEN.
- st1nkf1nger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So why would Tivo have a future at all
So what does Tivo do that a HD DVR provided by my cable company( at almost no cost) wont? - jericho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Been there, done that. http://news.com.com/TiVo,+Netflix+sign+movies-on-demand+deal/2100-1041_3-5390718.html
The buzz is that this will finally happen with the new Series 3 boxes. - stalky14, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Gack. I have a Scientific Atlanta DVR with Cox now, and a more poorly implemented DVR I've never seen. There is no 30 second skip. You can't trim channels from the guide. You can't start watching a currently recording show from the beginning without rewinding it first and then it drops you out to live when recording is finished, even though you haven't finished watching it yet. All DVR functions take place on a DVR "channel", which you have to tune off of when you're done. I could design a better user interface on my Commodore 64! It makes me long for my 1st generation Dish box again (and those are quite primitive by modern DVR standards). I'm experimenting with PC-based DVR software now (BeyondTV and GB-PVR), but getting all of the remote control and IR blast stuff to reliably coexist with the rest of my system is going to be a bitch.
If it wasn't for that damn $15(?) a month service fee, I'd be all over Tivo. Personally, I think the subscription model is what has held Tivo back more than anything. People are way more choosy about recurring expenses than they are about one-off purchases. - applebyte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I think Apple bailing out TiVo would be a great thing for both co's, but doubt it will happen. If Apple were to integrate TiVo software into Macs, it would cannibalize sales of TV shows on the iTunes Store. And with the relationships Jobs has built with studios to get them on board iTunes, I doubt he would put them in jeopardy. And we all know how much the broadcast networks hate DVR users for skipping commercials.
- neom, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3They have a website you know... geeze.. what are you? Stupid....? :P
- neom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2My bet is iTV + Google.
- st1nkf1nger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Gotcha.. Thanks for the info..
- crombenevolant, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Actually that is Dish they are in a pissing match with. DirectTv rebrands TiVo's as their own DVR, and is a big customer.
- Doofy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Apple, if they do it right.
Keep selling the boxes.
Make the Tivo service FREE!
Make their money on iTunes movie and TV show downloads. - XStatic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1And many of us are stuck with crippled Series 2 TiVo units from DirectTV that can't transfer shows over the net! (or play mp3, view jpg, run SDK HME code, etc.)
- whosmatt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2actually, knowing microsoft, it would make perfect sense.
- kirashira, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The whole point of tivo is to get rid of the commercials and advertisements which is precisely why a company like Google wouldn't be interested.
- jcb1987, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good read. It will be interesting to see what will happen.
- dmorel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1tivo's relationship with DTV is for all intents and purposes over. They are also working the lawsuit which they won, and is now in appeals with Dish through the courts. If they ultimately prevail there, it will be a big help to their cash flow.
More interestingly though is the deals they have signed with comcast and now cox to deliver their UI on EXISTING cable co DVR hardware. My understanding is that the port to Motorola boxes is complete and in testing, will be rolled out early next year to comcast and presumably those few Cox markets that use the Moto STB's. Once they port to the Scientific Atlanta boxes, they will be able to supply their UI to a fairly large number of cable co subs.
The leasing of their UI and service, coupled with the unbelievably sharp targeted advertising they have available to them is where the Tivo revenue stream to support them will come. I don't think I'm ready to count them out for holding their own and achieving profitability yet. If there are problems with the cable co roll outs and/or they are not received as well as they could/should be (their UI and service is the gold standard of DVR) then we can talk buy out. - DrewClayton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1uh
"It would give Google access to the millions of TiVo subscribers which are also from a different demographic to YouTube."
lame, untrue statement - zjbird, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3There are a few things like TiVo but differant like DVR for instance. This can be done with the 360, it could be easily done, I wonder if their would be patent issues..
- Lynxpro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1
The cannibalizing sales of tv shows is a moot argument. Did Apple kill off MP3 compatibility for the iPod and iTunes software itself once it started selling music in the iTunes Music Store? Nope. Same thing. - Lynxpro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Lifetime users do not cost TiVo money. That's a misnomer. We the lifetime subscribers are assets to the company because we tend to be the TiVo-faithful. The higher the number of TiVo boxes out there, the more valuable the aggregate viewing data is to them in terms of selling the information to the Nielsens as well as the tv networks and cable channels.
If TiVo were wise, they'd continue the lifetime service option. After all, one can purchase a cell phone without a service contract; it just costs more. - NorthStateGonzo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Save the AdSpace Please....
GOOGLE - haggie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Set-top box manufacturers and broadband cable providers hold the future in their own hands. In five years, "computers" will be obsolete in most households. You'll have a set-top box that is your Tivo, movie download service (Netflix), gaming platform (xBox), music purchasing interface (iTMS), photo storage locker (FLickr), wifi, voip, iptv, etc...
If you don't have that in five years, it was their own ***** fault and I'm sure Google will have figured out a way to do it all themselves (in beta). - Rayfound, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2DirectV does NOT own Tivo - They are in a pissing match with each other.
- exxon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1NETFLIX the in home electronic mailbox (Blackberry ping when done)
- Lynxpro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2As a TiVo owner/subscriber, I don't want TiVo to remain independent. I want Apple to purchase the company outright, or enter into a joint ownership of TiVo with Google. And here's why:
1. Economies of scale. The main problem that has kept TiVo from being profitable for the past three years is that it does not have the ability to drive down component costs. If Apple owned TiVo, it could acquire the necessary hard drives and other components at a much lower price that what TiVo is able to do. This would drive down prices and allow TiVo to keep Windows Media Center PCs at bay as well as encouraging more cable tv subscribers to use the TiVo branded boxes instead of the cable company offerings.
2. Apple could just release a specialized Mac Mini to replace the expensive Series3 units. Add a decent videocard and two CableCard 1.0/2.0 slots to the Mac Mini, and it would be far more powerful than the existing Series3 TiVo units, and cheaper.
3. An Apple owned TiVo could cancel the monthly fees associated with delivering the program guide data. It could be integrated into the .Mac services. Or, the costs could be completely negated by Google using the viewer aggregate data shared to increase their own advertising revenue.
It just doesn't make since for TiVo to remain independent. In fact, it is detrimental to its users and the long term viability of the company itself (not to mention the shareholders). - Olle, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Not an internet company. Apple.
- digga, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2I didn't know Microsoft was an "internet company".
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Microsoft already has (had?) WebTV, so they've played the set-top appliance game before. And, they've already got Windows Media Center, so they already *have* PVR software...
Yahoo! already has a relationship with Tivo, but Yahoo has never done consumer electronics.
Google's never sold consumer electronics either. - uofmpike, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0YouTivo?
- MrSolutions, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Interestingly after just posting this article I found that Yahoo would also be looking into capiyalizing on Amateur Video:
http://digg.com/tech_news/Yahoo_Seeks_to_Capitalize_on_Amateur_Video - NorthStateGonzo, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0
GOOGLE... - Atomic1fire, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1microsoft
it would work with the xbox quite well
and they would probobly replace the linux with windows - calcnerd256, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1directv owns tivo
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