What is Digg?72 Comments
- jeremyduffy, on 09/02/2008, -4/+56To all the people who say "You signed it, suck it up!", me and Washington state say, ***** YOU!
You don't have to have much grey matter to know that just because you signed it doesn't mean it's fair and that everyone will understand all the possible legal ramifications of the document. - Mootabolife, on 09/02/2008, -0/+49Step 1: Ponder why the next button doesn't work.
Step 2: Attempt to click agree button unsuccessfully.
Step 3: Notice gigantic box of tiny text.
Step 4: Scroll to bottom.
Step 5: Mark the check box and continue on way. - zeblith, on 09/02/2008, -1/+41Because it doesn't matter for us. It's either "Agree to our conditions, or you can't use our software!" and the reason we have the software in the first place is because we need to use it.
Most of time, once we open the package, we can't return it to the store we purchased it from for a refund. So, if we don't agree, we've just dumped a bunch of cash for a product we can't use. And, put frankly, that's ***** *****. - SurfingMonkey, on 09/02/2008, -0/+40I read my windows eula once. It felt like selling my soul to the devil. During software installation, I Agree = Next. I'm surprised packaged food doesn't have an eula, in small print, that stipulate you agree when you open the package... ;)
- sockpuppets, on 09/02/2008, -1/+35No sane person reads an EULA before clicking "install" or "next." I don't have enough time in my day to do everything I need to and you'd have to be a lawyer to understand them anyway.
- mathcreative, on 09/02/2008, -3/+34I don't like the fact that companies can change the eula's and terms of service, your exspected to follow ever one of those changes. Also considering that the governments given AT&T a considerable amount of tax relief,the government should be the one to regulate AT&T's eula's
- Br3ach, on 09/02/2008, -0/+28I swear for some of them you really do need a law degree to understand those 15 paragraphs of *****
- joel3000, on 09/02/2008, -15/+37This sucks. More liberal judges making life hard for the corporations that just want to make the world a better place.
Go McCain-Palin!!!
/snark - troye, on 09/02/2008, -0/+21People don't read EULAS. They just click or sign.
- hamobu, on 09/02/2008, -3/+21Does anyone here thinks that corporations have too much power over individuals, and that soon they will control every aspect of our lives?
- talonstriker, on 09/02/2008, -1/+19Too bad the decision is only enforceable in Washington.
- thrillki1l, on 09/02/2008, -0/+18Finally!!!! The whole arbitration thing in contracts has been pissing me off for a long time. Now I just wish I still lived in washington
- Phoenix462, on 09/02/2008, -1/+16Washington State Represent!
- bipolarruledout, on 09/02/2008, -0/+14You think people read these things? I used to sell cell contracts (for the devil himself) and not ONCE did I ever see anyone throughly read the agreement. And I used to tell people "take as much time as you need" and always verbaly specified some of the more outragious conditions such as the termination fee. People are used to signing their life away. I take the time to read these things but do you think I LIKE the terms? Most of the time you don't have any other choice and everyone knows it.
- 0Xonox0, on 09/02/2008, -5/+16I wonder how many unreasonable individuals agreed to it?
- Visual77, on 09/02/2008, -0/+11I semi-recall an incident a few years ago where the EULA contained a clause saying, in effect...
'The first person to contact the company and let them know they read this clause will be given $100'
I think it took several months before anyone contacted them about that text. - threedaysatsea, on 09/02/2008, -0/+11ARTICLE 4
ACCOUNTABILITY:
McDonald's assumes no accountability for damage or disruption of your otherwise calm and healthy colon/digestive system, as defined herein.
etc, etc... - WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -3/+13....and that somehow makes it ok for a corporation to sodomize its clients?
- WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -1/+11Hear hear. I would definitely encourage you to read every goddamn word of you mortgage documents, but who the hell has the time to wade through reams of legalese just to get a cell phone?
- Loonacy, on 09/02/2008, -1/+10I like to rip the install disc to an ISO, modify the eula.txt to say "Microsoft agrees to any terms you would like to set.", burn the modified ISO to a disc, then install. I have no problems clicking "I Agree".
- ZippyV, on 09/02/2008, -1/+10Next up: Apple's OSX EULA
- ModernDayDarwin, on 09/02/2008, -1/+9*woosh*
- Br3ach, on 09/02/2008, -1/+8I think the original Windows EULA actually used the words "sell your soul to Satan himself and for all time" somewhere, probably became one of those changes no one noticed later
- WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -1/+8The "sell your soul to Satan" clause is actually a fairly recent addition, replacing the original "sell your *progeny's* souls to Satan himself, unto seven generations from the time of the first boot-up" due to a class-action lawsuit.
- 10nacity, on 09/02/2008, -1/+7From the currently inaccessible bash.org quote database:
DmncAtrny: I will write on a huge cement block "BY ACCEPTING THIS BRICK THROUGH YOUR WINDOW, YOU ACCEPT IT AS IS AND AGREE TO MY DISCLAIMER OF ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AS WELL AS DISCLAIMERS OF ALL LIABILITY, DIRECT, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL, THAT MAY ARISE FROM THE INSTALLATION OF THIS BRICK INTO YOUR BUILDING."
DmncAtrny: And then hurl it through the window of a Sony officer
DmncAtrny: and run like hell - visceroth, on 09/02/2008, -0/+6Read the EULA. Don't like the EULA. Now what? Walk away? Don't install Windows?
Honestly, what are we supposed to do? Ask the company to change the EULA? As bipolar said best there's not a whole lot you can do about it. You can walk away and try to find a REASONABLE EULA but we all know that's just a wish.
I don't read EULA's because it doesn't matter. I don't read EULA's because I can't change them. The only solace I have is convincing myself that I do need a product with a terrible EULA bad enough that I HAVE to sign into a ***** contract. - sprooj, on 09/02/2008, -1/+7It was sarcasm dumbass.
- thrillki1l, on 09/02/2008, -0/+6I wonder If you were to add in to a contract something like "and we get your first born child." how many people would agree before someone caught it.
- inactive, on 09/02/2008, -1/+7I asked a lawyer about that once. Even lawyers don't understand them because behind the EULA is a bunch of law and court cases, and you have to know all of those, and understand their context as well. The only people who would understand them are law professors with specialization in EULA law.
If our government were on the ball, they would pass an act that lays down what exactly the relationship is between two parties, and then lock it, and not allow modifications of that agreement without a notary seal. Then everyone would be on an even playing field.
That will never happen though because I bet most of industry would fight that tooth and nail. So courts are our only remedy, and it looks like EULAs are on their wayout anyhow. - Skooma714, on 09/02/2008, -0/+5But there is precedent now.
- hamobu, on 09/02/2008, -1/+6You are your typical contrarian. Yes there are many good things that come from corporations. However there are many bad things as well. Often times bad things are so ubiquitous that they are unnoticed. I am talking about products that fail by design; other products that lock you in; designed obsolescence; legal restrictions; 50 page agreements to take a piss; etc. Some examples:
1. I almost bought a Sony digital camera yesterday. Price was good, but unfortunately Sony crap is not standard, and Sony cameras do not work with SD cards. My SD card would be useless and I would have to buy one compatible with Sony devices, which would then lock me into the Sony products. Sony crap traps you in, and there is no warning. Luckily friend of mine that came with me warned me not to buy it.
2. For decades people could better their lives by trading between regions. Not possible anymore with DVD regional codes. This is something you don’t even things about, but it is true. Regional codes, different versions of the same software (home, professional, business), etc are designed to get the most money of the customers by charging each market segment the maximum it will pay. This reduces the efficiency of the market to equalize prices.
3. Did you ever hear of those predatory credit card companies that give you low rate, but if you are late with a payment for anything (electric bill for example) they jack up your interest to 20%. What does electric bill has to do with credit card companies? Nothing! It is a dirty trick to cheat you out of your money and you would have known about it if you only brought your service agreement to your lawyer so that he could study it for a couple of hours.
4. Apple corp. needs a book by itself about corporate control. They charge customers for iPhone, and then charge developers for customers (true of software developers as well as makers of peripherals for devices); they solder batteries of iPods and iPhones so that customers would have to go into the apple store to replace them for $89; They cripple their OS to run only on their overpriced hardware; etc.
5. Originally copyright was for 14 years, and was enacted for benefit of society. Copyright today is for 125 years and is treated as “Property”. How can you have intangible property?
6. Credit card companies make it easy to get credit. When someone cheats them of their money pretending to be you, they come after you with nasty collection calls. Rather then credit card companies guarding their money from being stolen, you are supposed to padlock your trash so that your identity is not stolen. Identity theft my ass! You did nothing wrong, and no property of yours is missing, but you are supposed to do something so that Credit card companies can continue their mode of business.
7. Cheap printers; expensive cartridges; nuf said.
8. Etc. - SurfingMonkey, on 09/02/2008, -1/+6You know, part of a good conversation is being able to shift to related subjects...
- kevxross, on 09/02/2008, -1/+6And there's no way to fight it, as proven by this arti... oh wait.
- dsmx, on 09/02/2008, -0/+5Well since your choice with them you accept the EULA or you don't get the service, what's the point in reading it?
- geometry, on 09/02/2008, -1/+5The laws they used to fight it were state laws. Luckily the great state of Washington puts it's citizens ahead of corporations and they have solid consumer protection laws to protect those citizens. I haven't studied up on it but I don't believe the majority of states do the same.
- inactive, on 09/02/2008, -1/+5Well when it comes to phone companies you will find more democrats as stock holders and board members, why when MCI did $13B in fraud, and other companies combined did well over $25B in fraud you did not hear as much about it as say enron which was $500M. As the owner of a phone company I am intimately familiar with this type of stuff. I am also one of the non democrat tied phone companies and I *pay* my customers not the other way around, I do not think that is a coincidence.
Digg me down for not following the "digg party line" but that does not disprove what I am saying. - MrHateMan, on 09/02/2008, -0/+4I second that....
- EtherGnat, on 09/02/2008, -0/+4It provides a great opportunity to get out of your contract without early termination fees, though. They can't change the contract without giving you an opportunity to refuse and get out.
- inactive, on 09/02/2008, -1/+4I really like the way my home state is taking on insurance companies and all these abusive corporations. The only thing these corporations can do in defense is whine about trial lawyers. Whine on, I'd rather have rich lawyers winning cases on justice than the status quo.
- DarkPrincess74, on 09/02/2008, -0/+3Some have a taste for humans also.
- inactive, on 09/02/2008, -0/+3yes so lets increase the taxes they pay and give that to the people paying the product. Oh wait any sane rational logical person would know that corporations do not pay taxes, they just forward money from their customers to the government. Raise taxes on corporations and raise the costs of goods/services. If the tax requires new processes in place, then there will be an additional price increase to cover those costs too. Then the money goes to the government which pays people to ensure that it was paid, and disburse the funds (thus eating some of the money in the process) only then does it actually go to what it was supposed to (too often "government waste").
Did you know that most states that collect corporate income tax LOSE MONEY or break even? Yes that is right, the costs of collecting and enforcing the corporate tax equals or exceeds the revenue generated. Wouldnt it make more sense to lower that (perhaps to 0) to help the state not loose money and increase the amount of money businesses have for things like job creation, expansion (which always ends up buying goods/services from other companies - thus jobs) etc?
The federal government is different, when it taxes it pulls money out of circulation, so that is not addressed in the above paragraph. - inactive, on 09/02/2008, -0/+3Getting a bill passed in your state legislator is waaaayyyyy easier than trying to get it done at the federal level... Like you can usually go and meet your state legislators and possibly even the governor.
- incongruity, on 09/03/2008, -0/+3You know, I used to be one of those sorts -- and some part of me still is, but on a very very practical level, if one did read every agreement put in front of them and rejected all of the truly unreasonable ones, they'd not be able to do much of anything -- no credit cards, no cell phones or home phone service, no sporting events... the list goes on and on.
So, it seems like you either have a choice of signing unreasonable contracts or abandoning things that are becoming ever more standard and expected in day to day life. For me it becomes a game of probabilities and choices of who I end up signing such unreasonable contracts with... some evils are more evil or risky than others, etc. - theblacknight, on 09/03/2008, -0/+3It's really fun to read through the whole cell phone contracts and what not when you're in the front of a line and the cashier is just waiting for your signature to finish the transaction. It tends to piss off the other customers, but it's really the company's fault when it comes down to it.
- zadadka, on 09/02/2008, -1/+4You may murder, you may rape and you may pillage, but breach an End User Licence Agreement and only then will you truly feel the wrath of law and "justice".
It really is a most disgustingly sad indictment of the value of society today. - ethana2, on 09/03/2008, -0/+2I like using OS'es with no eula, never have to give it a second thought.
- SystemJinx, on 09/03/2008, -1/+3Microsoft is based in Redmond, Washington. I wonder if the Washington state supreme court ruling and the Washington Consumer Protection Act nullifies Microsoft's EULA.
- inactive, on 09/02/2008, -0/+2no I do not feel that but then I do not live in the US or believe that I must buy products from various companies because "they" said so.
I also am a firm believer that corporations should be exempt from income tax, mostly because they do not pay income tax. The customers of their products/services pay it, so increasing taxes on corporations only increase the cost consumers pay, but its a wildly popular idea for some silly reason. Why cant people see that corporations get revenue from customers and use that to pay their bills and instead think that a new tax will punish the corporation and the stockholders will just say "oh sure cut into our profits we would not dare raise prices to cover these new and additional costs".
I see the anti-corporation movement and the lets tax em more because they have money and I dont arguments largely coming from the same group. And this is one thing why I do not want to vote for obama, my small business (and many others) would see tax increases if obama gets his way. He has stated that he wants to tax small businesses more (making them uncompetitive against the larger ones with lower margins due to volume). He just does not call it a "small business" and he dazzles people with numbers like "revenues exceed $250k/year". Why that would only be about $20k/month, and it appeared that it would be on gross receipts not profits, so if you have 3 employees and pay a fair wage to them and have any rent/insurance/utility/etc costs, you have already consumed that money, and lets face it that does not mean its a large business.
So the solution is to put that company out so the large one can take over its market share? Come on... - hamobu, on 09/02/2008, -1/+3I don't like taxes myself, but the country needs revenue. We need to raise taxes and decrease spending.
What you get from the government is huge. I am talking about roads, police protection, public health, etc. Without government vaccinations, plumbing and sewer system, odds are someone you know and love would have died in a cholera outbreak, or flu or something like that. - smotpoker1, on 09/02/2008, -1/+3About time eula's are or should be illegal they have lawyers and we are expected to pony up a lawyer every time we see a eula.I say if they say they can change it anytime they want and not allow you to do the same then the eula is null to begin with.
-
Show 51 - 74 of 74 discussions
Check out the new & improved 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is