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- bradleyland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+30Please point me in the direction of a free VoIP provider that will give me a local phone number, send me an ATA for use with my 5.8 GHz Panasonic coordless phone, give me voicemail accessible through e-mail and their website, allows me to set up a variety of call forwarding and "SimulRing" options, offers E911, and doesn't require me to invest 100 hours in setup and maintenance.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Is that what passes for research with this "analyst"? Many, many companies make offers like this, and Vonage has been aggressively trying to increase marketshare in an effort to head off packet discrimination by ISPs offering their own VoiP services (the "we're so big you can't strangle our packets or you'll lose customers" strategy).
This sort of nonsense is why I ignore market analysts. Do your own research or stick to the S&P500. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14panique, Vonage having quality problems IS your ISPs fault. They know you're making a phone call from Vonage when it opens the standard Vonage port [which escapes my memory now]. They then delay that packet just enough to push it above a 150ms ping (voice packets arrive out of order, making bits words of come wrong in the order) This is why we needed Network Neutrality, because people like you run away thinking its Vonage's fault. Latency is just about all that matters here, and there isn't enough of it to ruin VoIP unless your ISP wants there to be.
To the NN opponents out there, no, don't allow prioritization of traffic, let technology fix the problem: Upgrade your routers, ISPs. Oh? Yes, you'll have to spend money. Thats what I'm paying you half a benjamin a month for. - mooseboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Lame reason to mark something like this. Most companies heckle you to death to stay. Most cell phone companies have a section called retention at their customer service dept. I agree that vonage is in trouble due to their earnings to expenses ratio, but this is ridiculous.
- NadeChaser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9huh? a business not wanting to make money? excuse me? I assure you that they are most definatly trying to make money.
- thewebguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8you get 768K down and 6M up? woah
- Atomic1fire, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10do do do do do do do do do do people do stupid things (sorry that vonage jingle just comes to mind)
- mDot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Seems to work for Microsoft and Apple (Windows, Xbox Live and OSX vs Your Linux Distro of choice and Sony's Playstation online). The difference is quality of service, and making phone calls over the internet not being as interesting as Vonage had hoped. To geeks; Vonage is offering little more then what you can get using the now free (NA) Skype, no sale. To lay-persons its a cheap long-distance phone service that goes down with your internet, no sale. Also, Vonage wants to _be_ a phone service, but wants to be excused from the responsibilities of running a Telecom because of how the calls are made.
There is money in VOIP, and the big boys who already play in the telecom and broadband arenas (Cox Com, AT&T) are gearing up to take over when Vonage falls off. These company's understand that VOIP isn't a novelty, but a more efficient way of carrying out phone service. - D4r7h3v1l, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"They have even said they aren't in the business to make money."
That sounds like a vestige of the dot-com era... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8In other news... there's been so much short selling of Vonage stock that it would have had to split in order to not violate SEC regulations.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Current problems with VOIP:
1. Takes up too much bandwidth for the average US broadband connection.
2. Requires low latency at all times. The farther the destination node, the worse the quality.
3. No reliable 911 emergency numbers. People have been put on hold dialing the police/fire dept.
4. Goes down when your internet connection dies.
5. Most of the VOIP providers are unreliable, even when you have a good internet connection.
VOIP is the way of the future, eventually it'll even include video, but it's going to take a while. Vonage probably won't be around by then. - rr525356, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It took me 3 hours on hold waiting to cancel my account. Then, they wouldn't refund me the unused portion of the month, threatened collections if it wasn't paid. Last week I got an email offering 3 months free. Here is a snippet from it:
Dear Ryan,
Hurry! This exclusive offer only for former Vonage customers like yourself has been extended until July 31! Not only will you get 3 Months FREE Vonage service plus no activation fee, but you'll also experience improved voice quality, exceptional reliability and more new money-saving features.
In fact, CNET just rated Vonage the #1 Digital Phone Service and PC World named Vonage one of the 100 Best Products of 2006!
Come back to Vonage today to save up to 50%ˆ on your phone bill and get great features like: [...] - theone3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7What have we learned from this?
All organisations need a black mark in their database next to industry analysts who've subscribed to their services. - koolman3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This is news? Everyone knows that Vonage is going down hill. They have ripped of their customers, and just the other day I got a telemarketing call from some VERY VERY PUSHY telemarketer who was OBVIOUSLY not from the U.S tying to push me into adding another line.
I said NO, and he said well for the cost of one Big Mac a day you can afford this, I was like WTF? Who eats one Big Mac a day? It just shows what Vonage thinks of their clients.
I will soon be moving to Qwests VoIP service. - tokyopimp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Well I've never had a problem with Vonage, I hope they don't fold because I think they offer a nice alternative service.
I'd never droped a call, I've had a few call qaulity problems but that was because of my brother downloading torrents. No one has ever complained on the other end of the line, and everything works fine. I like Vonage. - mutabi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4
I agree, it makes good business sense. In fact if it were the opposite and they were letting customers leave without trying to entice them to stay, then I would sell my stock.
A company should do whatever it takes to retain customers. In the long run, the company will benefit. - antron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6it's Woo hoo, hoo hoo hoo
not do do do do do
and the song is called Woo Hoo - randjamal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Agreed. While Vonage probably isn't in the best of shape financially, the experience of a company trying everything to keep a customer shouldn't be viewed (by itself) as and indicator of financial health. If it is, AOL has been bankrupt for years.
- madeingermany, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3well if it's even worse if you really wanna cancel...
Read some of these: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/cell_phones/vonage.html
Too bad terrible customer service is only makeing stocks go up ;) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Here's my response to that same email, I sent it to their abuse@ and customerservice@ addresses
Jerks :)
Vonage, Vonage, vonage
More options Jun 16 (2 days ago)
hahaha, you pricks ripped me off for 6 months when you refused to cancel my account and you want to give me 3 back? Cracker please..
Hey, and maybe you should stop ripping off your customers on the IPO. For the person that reads this, I'm sorry for you. Methinks you'll be without a job within a year while the boss man rolls out overseas with money he should be paying you. - Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've had Vonage for several years now... there is a bug in the voicemail system; calling voicemail doesn't give me all the messages; I have to log in and download the messages instead. This isn't too much of a problem, because I have my home phone set to simultaneously ring my cell phone. I set it up so that my cell goes to voicemail first, so that solves that problem.
Other than that, Vonage has been awesome. I'm a very happy customer. I'm very sorry to hear this news, because it sounds like I will be forced to shop for a new VOIP provider soon. - Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Startups generally don't make money, it takes YEARS to turn a profit.
Oh, and a company that is growing as rapidly as Vonage did is not going to make money, either. Growth is VERY expensive. Think about it... if you're doubling your subscriber base every few months, all of your net income is going towards ramping up your capacity; hiring more labor, building new server farms, buying more property. Contrary to popular wisdom, rapid growth is difficult to survive. - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Is that what passes for "research" with this guy? All kinds of companies make offers like this, and Vonage has been aggressively trying to increase marketshare in an effort to head off packet discrimination by ISPs offering their own VoiP services (the "we're so big you can't strangle our packets or you'll lose customers" strategy).
This sort of nonsense is why I ignore market analysts. Do your own research or stick to the S&P500. - tiga31328, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This guy is an idiot and so is anyone that believes his rot. As others have said, many companies offer you a discounted rate to stay with them, why not, better to make some money than none off of you. I have been with Vonage for 3 years and have called to cancel twice, each time they made me a 'deal' to stay. It has nothing to do with their IPO, or their stability in the market, it's just how they do business. Just goes to show you what happens when a moron is allowed to have access to technology, they make morons of us all.
- POMP, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I cancelled my account and a few days later I was emailed this offer:
"Come Back to Vonage and Get 3 MONTHS FREE"
Here's the small print: "3 MONTHS FREE OFFER ONLY ON $24.99 PLAN. SERVICE FEE WAIVED BUT ALL OTHER CHARGES APPLY. FREE FEATURES INCLUDED IN SERVICE FEE AFTER FREE MONTHS." - tilleyrw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My two cents...
My parents had switched to Vonage for the cost savings. They were in for a rude awakening. We switched from Brighthouse VOIP to Vonage for the same reason.
Vonage tells us they will handle "everything" from their end: Informing Brighthouse of the change, Transferring the number from Brighthouse to Vonage, etc. Three months pass. Our phone service is NEVER switched over to Vonage. After four months of foolishness and constant calling during this entire process, we were NEVER able to speak with a customer service representative nor ANYONE who can help us. Just two weeks ago, we canceled out Vonage account flat -- even paying a $100 "Cancellation Bribe" is a cheap price to pay. Vonage sucks, they have no standing in the business community (look at the SEC ***** for validation of this point!), and lack any supporting infrastructure. They even outsource their help desk and related jobs! If a company can't or won't pay the price of supporting this country while selling to this country, ***** 'em. (OK, I know that's a different point.) - gage006, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@panique,
Did you even read the replies? - ilitirit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I encourage people to read this article:
http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06053016.htm - thewebguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2i have a hard time believing things like that, i even read a few that probably aren't even possible.
- nogami, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yup, customer retention is practised everywhere. Companies know that holding onto a customer at a reduced rate is far preferable to losing a customer altogether (besides, they'll likely find a way to crank the price up in the future anyway).
- signal15, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Part of the quality problems with Vonage are from their lack of support for the g.729a codec. When I had them, they were using g.711, and it took up massive amounts of bandwidth. It worked OK, when I had them, but it was very sensitive to other traffic on my cable modem link. In any case, I cancelled the service because ATT Broadband started blocking port 5060 to vonages servers, which they actually admitted to.
If you're looking for a broadband phone provider, and you want clear calls that don't suck up bandwidth, find someone that uses g.729a. I run a VoIP server at home, and I've done some testing over satellite links (with 600ms latency). G.729a is the only codec that performs well on all of it, including that satellite link. It uses 4.3k/sec, versus 64-96k per second for g.711 - UnseenLlama, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6panique...you're an idiot. Vonage has never caused me a problem and someone that can't even specify their speeds correctly surely does not know what he/she is talking about....and don't call me Shirley.
- diggnationdevon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I've had no problems with Vonage and I enjoy paying half the price of Verizon fees
- HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The fact that Blockbuster is feeling enough heat from Net-Flix makes me want to sell Blockbuster stock (if I had any.)
- prockcore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3This is just stupid. When I cancelled my Blockbuster Online account they offered me 2 months free. Sell! Sell!
Everyone does this. - sigintop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1NadeChaser:
I think Nutty means they weren't in it to turn a profit. They'd make money but it would be to keep the project alive.
Of course all this talk could mean that they weren't planning on making profit for awhile but would in the end. Kind of like Amazon.com in the beginning. - angelp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This analyst is a jackass...most companies try to get you to stay. I can't believe he downgraded the stock based on something so trivial.
As far as Vonage service, I've never had a problem with dropped calls or anything else. I'm perfectly satisfied with their service. - 3Den, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As for quality problems everyone keeps talking about.. it's generally the ISPs fault, for sure.
I use vonage from a 3rd world country, with 256/128 adsl..... and talking to my family back in Canada constantly, it works fantastically.
A dropping stock price does not necessarily doom a company... it may just mean teh stock is overvalued. If Vonage pays it's operating costs, it will be okay.
I can't believe americans tolerate their ISPs blocking traffic to other voip providers..... the whole "net neutrality" debate is a tricky topic, however, actively blocking or degrading traffic should never be tolerated. - psychicsailboat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2How exactly is Vonage ripping off it's customers?
I get high quality service with all local and long distance included.
If I am going to be away, I can have it ring my cell.
If my net connection goes down, it can ring me at another number.
I have all the "extras" that Verizon charges extra for.
Before I used Vonage, my phone bills were 65 bucks a month at the least, now I pay less than 30.
Wow, a savings of 35 bucks a month with more features, sure sounds like a ripoff to me! - madeingermany, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't think anybody has to make up bad customer experiences..... I've had my share. Luckily, I don't need Vonage as long as Skype and sipgate exist.
- amplifrier, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1sweet.....not that I want to see VoIP fail.....i feel quiet the opposite about VoIP, i use skype and sunrocket and I'm better off for having them but Vonage is a crappy company.
i had their service for a while whit single line and had the need for another line so i had 2 vonage supplied lines.....after a couple weeks i found that i would no longer need the extra line or vonage service at all for a while....i called to cancel the line....they charged me $80 to cancel the lines and made me return the adapter i was supposed to be able to keep.
they are getting what they deserve now.
I'm a VoIP customer..........i just will never be a vonage customer again.......hopefully nobody else will be either. - HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I have a friend who uses Vonage.
Everytime his AC kicks on his Vonage box burps and hangs the call for 3 seconds.
That and It sounds like I'm talking to someone on a CB. Half-duplex... - AstroZombie138, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Vonage does have a lot of service problems. I did some network analysis and know that it isn't my ISP, and I can use other VOIP providers without any problem. I also feel sorry for the people who lost all their money in the IPO, though novice investors should never be in an IPO.
- t3chnomanc3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sounds like my experience!
I signed up to transfer my Verizon Wireless number to a new Vonage account back in Feb '06. 3 months later and numerous hours, phone calls to non-helpful people, and canned answers that there was no problem I find the following:
1. The LOA NEVER reached Verizon in the 3 months.
2. I was flat out lied too by a stuttering guy named Allan Ravallo (supposedly in the LNP dept), who claimed he would personally find out what was wrong and get back to me that day.
3. 2 weeks and at least 10 calls later all I kept getting was AR's voice mail & no call back.
4. When finally I got a hold of a new number which rang the "Account Management" dept (where everyone looking for real answer should be calling, not TS, etc...), they started looking into my lengthy record of problems. They got in touch with AR's supervisor and claimed the supervisor would call the Verizon contact I had and then me next day, neither happened.
5. 2 weeks calls to AM dept later, finally the help & caring of a rep (name withheld for that reason) led to the discovery that LOA did not match my Customer Service Record (CSR) with VZW, but no one else caught it.
6. Finally the LOA error is worked out and then LNP dept. balks at my request because supposedly Verizon refuses to release my number due to overdue bill, still no port request/rejection showed in Verizon's system. The law is if you owe, and the account is even in temporarily disconnected status, they must honor the request!
7. So got round and round for days on the phone with AM dept who can't get anyone from LNP to talk to me or better yet submit the request & get a rejection (moving the ball to Verizon's court) nor will they contact the Executive LNP guy at VZW who was insisting if they did so he would release the number (very help man, name withheld for that reason).
All along I was told “there’s no problem”, “just wait a few more days…”, and finally (from AR that *****) “Verizon is ignoring the requests”. In the end I got my number ported 2nd week in May, 4 months after signing up and god know how many HOURS of phone calls.
The service works good, problem now is I can't get the proper credits for the months *I* had to work to get them to do what was a max 20day job. What did I get & what has it cost me? 1st month free, 2 months I paid for and credits only until this June's billing which equates to 2 months out of 3 credit, BS! Starting July 15 I go back to paying $30 when it should be at least August based on the 3 months of BS and the fact that while all this was happening they took 2 payments from my bank when they should not have.
Now I must consider moving the number over to Cingular which was the root cause of my problems. See if you buy a Cingular contract via Amazon, you can't port an existing number without forgoing the rebate which takes 4 months to come! In the end I owe VZW over $300 for the 4 months Vonage played games while VZW forced me to stay on my 900min plan rather than go into standby or some other place holder to protect my number as I was not even using the VZW phone all that time.
Always ask to talk with Account Management and ignore lies stating that calling your current carrier means the carrier will cut you off before you can get the number ported for otherwise you will have no idea if they are really submitting the LOA!!!
I have numbers & names if anyone wants them, just have to find my 8 post-it chain of notes & numbers which are likely packed for my move…. - t3chnomanc3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Same fees dude, your just getting 2 services for the same fee since you have to pay for a 'net connect need for the VoIP service. It's gravy because you get 'net access but you loose bandwidth in the process since you're using 3rd party VoIP.
Of course Comcast deal is even worse since they want $39 which likely means $45 vs. $30 total at Vonage and they will likely filter out competitors to force that choice. Never mind it's like $116/mo for 8Mb + analog cable here in NJ. - bradleyland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Most of your points are either flat wrong, or invalid.
1. Takes up too much bandwidth for the average US broadband connection.
Average US broadband connection? Err, what do you mean by that. What's average broadband? My 3072 down/384 up DSL works great with my Vonage service.
2. Requires low latency at all times. The farther the destination node, the worse the quality.
I'm in Florida, and I regularly talk with a buddy of mine in Oregon. That's about as far (withing the continental US) that I can call. I have no more problem talking to him than I do someone in West Palm Beach (100 miles from me).
3. No reliable 911 emergency numbers. People have been put on hold dialing the police/fire dept.
Vonage connects you with the same 911 emergency dispatch that your local telco carrier does. If you're being put on hold, it's a problem with your local 911 system, not Vonage.
4. Goes down when your internet connection dies.
True, but Vonage allows you to "failover" your incoming calls to another number. In my case, my cell phone. For outgoing, I use my cell phone if/when my internet goes down, which is rare. My internet has not been down while I was home or able to notice since I've had my Vonage service, and it's been over a year now.
5. Most of the VOIP providers are unreliable, even when you have a good internet connection.
The only sketchy part about my Vonage service has been the email voicemail delivery and voicemail recorded message delivery to people calling me. At one point I was having some issue where I could hear the caller, but they couldn't hear me. A firmware update to my ATA fixed that problem. It also helps if you use their ATA as your router, then attach whatever equipment you want to it. Too many people stick the ATA behind a cheap router and are baffled when their VoIP traffic doesn't get priority. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Matter of time before its regulated by the FCC and the prices skyrocket, they will realize how much money they are missing out on without regulating it to the ground like they did on the telcos, the gov shaped VOIP into what it is today, they want you on it, (easier for the NSA) why else let all the TELCO's buy eachother back and become MA bell again. but, buying into vonage is useless, they are just providing a service over existing lines, what about net neturality, that our gov doesnt want it to be "neutral" what happens when your cable carrier tells vonage " pay us XXXXXXXXXXXXX amount of money, or , we wont let our subscribers access your network" good old extortion, go usa!
- shaolinpunks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1there already is video in skype
- panique, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@electrosoccertu - I did mention I still use VoIP with no problems. I am still using the same ISP. The only thing I changed was my VoIP provider...
- NuttySquirrel, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Even back when vonage was the only company doing this they weren't making money. They have even said they aren't in the business to make money.
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