What is Digg?219 Comments
- waffledad, on 10/12/2007, -18/+98One more reason not to get Vista. Sadly, you should have the "RIGHT" to install your OS as many times as you want on the same machine or if you make changes. I've had XP tell me I needed to re register on a machine that hadn't had any changes to it. So I try and it fails and prompts me to call MS. They gave me a lot of grief initially but finally gave me a new key... what a business model....
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+76High prices, insane licensing restrictions; great way to drive legitimate customers to piracy, MS. Even with a legitimate key, it's easier to use a pirated version to avoid all this repeated activation bullcrap.
- Zolk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+65No, this was never how it worked. With previous versions of Windows you could perform a clean installation with an upgrade copy. All you had to do was insert a CD from an old version of Windows during the installation. Very convenient for those who'd rather do a complete reformat of their system when upgrading Windows.
- Zolk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+63This makes me furious. I've always recommended that users do a clean install of Windows since upgrading tends to leave garbage from the previous version behind. No option do to a clean install with upgrade editions is a major setback. Another reason to stick with XP (or better yet, switch to Linux or OS X).
- sathias, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35Guys, update the firmware on your sarcasm detectors
- kingkilr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+34Real simple guys.
OEM, its just as cheap as upgrade(sometimes cheaper)! - Namco, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32H3smith you ***** retard. Have you ever installed or reinstalled Windows before? Do you know what a "clean" or a "fresh" install is? Enthusiasts like me have been doing clean installs of Windows for years and all the installer asks you for is to insert the CD of a previous version. With this change, we'll have to waste an hour actually installing Windows 2000 before upgrading to Vista.
- Gizza, on 10/12/2007, -0/+25@bobothn
did u read the article?
"If a PC did not have an older version of Windows installed, users could provide an older installation CD of Windows for verification. After dropping a qualifying CD in the CD-ROM drive, the installation routine would verify the disc and you'd be on your way."
It is saying that not even this can be done now. Which is bull crap. I bought XP 4-5 years ago to upgrade from 98. But since then ive done a lot of formats and upgrades so when i re-installed windows I just had to insert my 98 CD for it to work.
MS say they're trying prevent piracy. Could've fooled me, this is doing nothing but fuelling piracy. This wont affect most of the casual install once and let it go users out there, but those users generally arent the ones to pirate anyways. The "enthusiests" who upgrade and do clean installations a lot are the ones who will be affected by this and they're the ones who know how to easily pirate software, and this will just encourage them to do so. - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -11/+30Sounds like the only way to get a non-crippled version is to get the pirated version. And to think, up 'til now the OS was the only thing I wasn't willing to do that with. Thanks for selling me the cracked version, Microsoft!
- DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -10/+27Laptops are already shipping with Vista installed, so why care about upgrade licensing details?
- Scruffydan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19well technically you can do a clean install, you just need to install xp then tell the vista to backup the old install and start fresh... at least that what it seems like the article is saying. still this is a HUGE pain, and I assume will be hacked soon enough... (i hope)
FTA:
"Fortunately, the change will not mean that users cannot install Windows Vista to a new directory. Windows Vista's upgrade process includes the option of backing up previous installations, and in fact, in some scenarios a "clean" upgrade is required. "Clean" or not, the requirement that the previous OS be installed puts a bit of a damper on those of us that like the do periodic system refreshes." - kf_man, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18@bobothn
I think you are missing the point... You used to be able to verify your upgrade even if your drive had been wiped out. If you need to replace the drive for some reason you will have to install Windows XP and then upgrade to Vista, a huge hassle. With XP upgrades you could just provide the media for the qualifying older version and it would install without a problem. - writerboyVSgod, on 10/12/2007, -14/+31You people are all fanboys and hackers. Windows should be standard on all hard drives and it should be paid for in full, not only on every device, but every iteration of the same device. I mean, if you put RAM in your computer it is basically a faster newer computer, so why should you be able to you have Windows on your NEW computer without paying for it! The only reason anyone wouldn't want Windows is because they are a pirate!
Don't even get me started on computers with more than one hard drive! You people are thieves and Nazis. Actually you are worse then Nazis! Nazis only killed people, you are stealing software illegally from hard working people.
People who pirate software are worse than the 9/11 terrorists. They are like Nazi terrorists who train dogs to rape babies... and they make the dogs wear masks... and then torture and kill the dogs. And that's just the God honest truth.
Amen. - Naga10, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Yeah, Zolk is right. I remember upgrading like that.
This whole thing doesn't make any sense. - xtremesniper, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18This is retarded. I refuse to pay almost 100 bucks extra just so that I can do a clean install.
- evilspoons, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Because the new headline is better?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Yeah. Instead you deal with the hassle of having to screw around in the terminal for days getting your ***** to work. (If you have an ATI card don't bother yet.)
- grendel, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21downloads ubuntu for dummies and gets reading...
- synarchy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16No bobothn, you don't have to have the previous OS installed. You can do a clean install using the upgrade disk, and a few steps in it asks you to put a disk for a qualifying earlier version in your drive. It checks, then lets you continue. Stop spreading your ignorance.
- pumacub, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I love Microsoft products (yea, yea, yea...), but their licensing ***** is just getting stupid.
- LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I think he means Windows 2000, guys.
- justnick, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17I know. Windows ME was the best OS ever.
- nrbelex, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Anybody who tinkers with computers who had XP and upgraded to Vista will now be petrified to do anything out of the ordinary with their computer. The steps it will take to start anew in case of a problem (install XP, THEN install Vista and THEN start getting things back the way they were) will be enough to discourage people from doing anything with any risk at all. I hope Microsoft understands the tremendous hassle they caused with this decision.... Or maybe they already thought of all this. Maybe their thinking is that the steps it would take to get a system back on its feet with an upgrade CD are enough to convince the person to buy a full install CD, thus getting paid twice. Genious!
- PCBuckman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I think the best solution is to buy OEM disks. The ultimate version from Newegg is $200, or about half of the $400 retail price. I know that OEM can do a fresh install, that's it's purpose, and I believe it can do an upgrade install as well.
- Nocturnal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10First and foremost, normally when you upgrade with XP you can do a clean install. A clean install is preferred by probably 9/10 people who perform installations. Often times an in-place upgrade can ruin applications and cause more headache than going with a clean install.
How do you do a clean install using an upgrade disk? Well you start the installation process like normal, then, Windows normally asks you to insert a valid Windows install CD that is eligible to be upgraded from into the computer. Once it verifies that, it continues on as though it was a clean install.
Having to install one OS and then perform the upgrade, not knowing if things are going to be running properly after the in-place upgrade sucks. I prefer to do a clean install if at all possible, upgrade or not. - duzytata, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13If you are like most people, you'll do it once and never have to do it again. If you change out your hardware a lot or like to reinstall every 6-12 months like I do then make an image of the install right after you have personalized it and load that image when you want to start fresh. That will save you hours of time and a good amount of cash over buying the retail versions.
- mojo0510, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Dumbass... The whole point of the article is you have to install vista over xp. Meaning (according to this article anyway) you must have xp INSTALLED before installing an upgrade of vista. As many of the comments before you said, you used to be able to install xp on a clean hdd by inserting an xp cd at the proper time. This is what people are complaining about.. pottymouth!
- jhkilroy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9
I have traditionally bought a new hard drive and did a clean install for the upgrade leaving my old OS (in this case winXP) intact. If Vista fails and has trouble running programs I need then what ? I have to reload XP and programs all over again... Not to mention what do you do if you buy a new hard drive a year from now on an upgraded machine you did today ? You would have to reload XP , activate it , then load the damn Vista upgrade - what a HASSLE ! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9It seems likely that one of the options WILL be to perform a clean install, just that the installation must first start with the user logged into their existing install, exactly the same as when you stick in your XP disk when you're in windows already and have the option to Upgrade or do a Clean Install.
Guess we'll all find out tomorrow. - trealtney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Yes it would be a bitch. Even more of a bitch if your OEM non SP2 install is deemed not sufficient and you need to install that, and all recent patches to do the upgrade.
- TheWorm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12"i have that... but i want MORE!!!!.. ya know.. more!!!!... i like to have my freedom... thats why i'm using Ubuntu.. ;).. when more hacks and tweaks are out for the Vista OS.. then i'll make a second notice..."
Why is it that on any OS article, Linux users feel the need to come in and put in their "I use Ubuntu because I'm better" crap. Go have fun with Linux, but it's unrelated to the article, and we don't really care. Stop spamming. - vannoy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@ bobothn
Actually when you would would install a newer version of Windows you could just swap the install disc with a full version install disc and upgrade that way, it would run a compliance check (like the title says).. Didn't matter if you had an older version of Windows installed on your drive already or not, as long as you had a disc that could install an older version you were okay. - adc89, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Scary thing is, that sounds a lot like something Balmer would say...
@haruchai: He was obviously being sarcastic. - mntpng, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10It never ceases to amaze me how much crap Windows users are willing to accept in order to run some Microsoft product. All the draconian end user license agreement, Windows Genuine Advantage, and now Vista with all it's DRM and implicit distrust towards their customers and so on. You can bury this comment if it suits you but I'm just curious as to what really is the last straw. Can someone tell me what would be the very thing that would convince you to look for an alternative because I can't figure it out. What's the thing that Microsoft can do that will put you over the edge? I just think most sensible and techincally savvy user of Windows would have thrown their hands up in the hair and walked away from Windows by now. What keeps you glued to Windows? I'm simply curious. Please someone enlighten me.
- pushmouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7The OEM versions cannot do upgrades. Only clean installs.
- halbrown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Been riding with Microsoft since MS-DOS. Looks like this is my stop to get off the bus.
- LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Since when has Arstechnica not been a reputable source? I'd say they are VERY high on reputability, and are not just a rumor site. These guys know their stuff.
- PrometheuZ, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9One word: Games :)
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I remember when an Office 2000 "upgrade" install needed a qualifying CD, you could use the upgrade CD itself to qualify. Them's was the days...
- grungegbunny, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I'm sorry.. but it seems Microsoft has turned a bit too anti-consumer for me this time around..
I will not be upgrading from XP to vista as I see no real benefit to me for how I use computers and all this extra protection anti-pirate crap is just well.. crap.
Sorry Microsoft you lost my money on this OS. - noodlygod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I can't be 100% sure about this working for Vista but I don't see why it wouldn't. For the XP machines at work I use DriveImage XML, a free program. You can use it to create an image of your system at a particular point in time and then restore from that image later. Driveimage and a bunch of other stuff can be found on the Ultimate Boot Cd, which we also use for recoveries. Basically, download DriveImage XML, create an image. Save it somewhere safe and when you want to restore your machine to that point use the ultimate boot cd to run driveimage again and restore from that image. (Driveimage is included on the ultimate boot cd)
(http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/) -Ultimate boot cd
(http://www.runtime.org/dixml.htm) -DriveImage XML - TGDuff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/930985/en-us
- jull1234, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Just need to remember to image the system after the first clean install.
- Fhionnlaoch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I agree. I often wipe my HDD to clean it up (easier than organizing the old crap, I just backup the stuff I know I want and slip in DBAN). I'm saying bye to Windows forever now (not to MS, though, I like my x360).
- jmz635, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Umm no.. I ran into the problem last week trying to install Vista Busines upgrade from the Action Pack. I'm not sure how I fixed the problem actually, but thinking of it now, if Vista upgrades from 2000, do that. 2000 takes like half the time to install of XP, and needs no activation.
So, this isn't a ***** rumour. It's a ***** annoying problem. - Nocturnal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I believe that it will actually check to see if your CD-Key is blacklisted and if it is, it may not let you install Vista. I believe that is the main point of all of this.
The thing is, I've read on another site that the upgrade process has not been changed at all. I am referring to Paul Thurotts Win Supersite. - pauleku, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9just another reason i wont buy it.
- DirkBelig, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Anyone who was too busy being outraged instead of laughing should STFU and go back to their Macs, since they're obviously too stupid for more than one mouse button.
- fuzzmeister, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This isn't completely true (if Amazon is to be believed). Look at the description for Vista Home Premium Upgrade:
"Depending on which edition of Windows you are running and the edition of Windows Vista you would like to install, you have two options for the installation process: You can upgrade in-place, which means you can install Windows Vista and retain your applications, files, and settings as they were in your previous edition of Windows or you can do a clean install."
Seems to be saying clean installs are still possible. - RedLion, on 10/12/2007, -21/+25I believe the reason they did this is that most recent systems come without clean install CDs (because usually manifacturers want users to pay more to have the clean CDs). As much as I could understand the installer checks for the existance of an XP install and then you can chose to do a normal install (old directories get backupped) or an upgrade (applications get transferred). I still agree that it sucks that the users will always need an XP install in order to upgrade.
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