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Verizon says: $0.002 == $0.00002
media.putfile.com — Listen to this audio clip of this call to Verizon. Should sorting out a simple billing error be this much work?
rchmura- 3091 diggs
- digg it
- tmiw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+184This really sucks for him. Hopefully, Verizon corporate'll listen and he'll get his money refunded...
- dshPls, on 10/12/2007, -8/+102I doubt it, so long as their calculator says what they want, he'll be fighting. I just wonder how you can get a job like this and not have basic math skills.
He needed to explain alittle better I think tho, I mean he layed it out in "smart" people terms, he should have explained how to convert what they were getting into cents. - pooslinger, on 10/12/2007, -5/+94Every company has its fair share of morons.
- CandidateZero, on 10/12/2007, -5/+52At least he could actually call Verizon directly. Under one of the three pro-telecom bills proposed in September, all complaints would have to be directed not to the provider, but to the taxpayer-funded FCC. Imagine the bureaucratic mess that would be... yuck.
"I'm not making this up, a congressional staffer told me that if you have a problem with your cable service, that they expect you to call the FCC."
- Anthony Riddle, Executive Director of the Alliance for Community Media
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/30/1411227 - PatrickFisher, on 10/12/2007, -5/+96You know, I see stuff like this all the time. Companies advertise 0.50¢ when they mean 50¢. I guess people don't get the difference...
- levitron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+66It's like a real-life Abbott and Costello. Unbelievable-- I couldn't have written this any better!
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20"Hopefully, Verizon corporate'll listen and he'll get his money refunded..."
With the exposure this story is getting I imagine this guy will get his money back. Unfortunately nothing will change for the next person, who undoubtedly won't be clever enough to record their conversation and get it posted to Digg and other sites. - Chmarr, on 10/12/2007, -57/+7I think I see the confusion here.
It is (or was) common to write figures like this: $2.50¢ ... The 'dot" is no longer a decimal point in this case, but merely a separator between the dollar part, and the cents part.
So... if someone were to write 0.50¢ ... is this just 50 cents?, or half a cent? It all depends on what that "dot" means.
Now, of course, it becomes especially ridiculous when you use figures like 0.002¢ ... if the dot is not a decimal point, then really, that's the same as 0.2¢. So, they're really muddling up their nomenclature between the two systems... the "layman financial" system, and the mathematical/scientific system.
Intentional or no? :) - LordofShadows, on 10/12/2007, -1/+50100¢ == $1.0 (decimal goes left two places)
0.002¢ == $0.00002 - david76, on 10/12/2007, -1/+82That was SO incredibly painful to listen to. Apparently simple math is beyond this rep.
- anonydigg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+40"He needed to explain alittle better I think tho"
He explained it just fine & I couldn't have explained it any better. - PatrickFisher, on 10/12/2007, -5/+95Just so you guys know, later in the clip it says the rep's phone number and extension. Heres how you can get a hold of her to tell her how to do math:
Andrea: 1-888-581-1070 (Ext. 2234) - Ebeniz, on 10/12/2007, -22/+55all he should of said was
"open www.google.com and type " 0.0002 cent/kb * 35000 kb " ... the answer is 0.07 U.S. dollars" - 1021, on 10/12/2007, -32/+10let's call Andrea directly, the last customer rep on that recording:
1-888-581-1070 ext 2234
oops, nvm, digg down - david76, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Perhaps the appropriate example is...
If you charge one penny per kilobyte, and I use two kilobytes, how many pennies do I owe you? Two. So, if you charge one cent per kilobyte, and I use two kilobytes, how many cents do I owe you? *GASP* Two. So now, if I charge .002 cents per kilobyte, and I use 35000 kilobytes, how many cents do I owe you? 71 cents. - david76, on 10/12/2007, -4/+51@ebeniz
Wow, even you got it wrong...
http://www.google.com/search?q=%2e002+cents+%2a+35000
.002 cents/kb * 35000 kb = 70 cents. - Ebeniz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+31OOPs... i screwed up...
you should type
"0.002 cent/kb * 35000 kb " in google ... the answer is 0.07 U.S. dollars
but if you type
"0.002 dollars/kb * 35000 kb " in google... the answer is $70 u.s dollars - seventoes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+65"What unit is that? Dollars or cents?"
"Well, thats in kilobytes."
...dumbass - david76, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10@ebeniz
Wow, you could've at least corrected the first problem. And the second of course doesn't represent his problem. - Antagonist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16http://www.codepoetry.net/2006/07/07/verizon_really_bad_at_math
- jpdoane, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20He should have just asked them to calculate how many cents he owed.
- nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3I haven't heard the whole thing yet, but it's 1h44m long and what he should have done is given the people a short lesson on multiplying rates, canceling the units out and everything. It would have taken some time, but I think that would be the easiest way to explain it. Just like you learn back in elementary school...
(ebeniz and others, leave it alone. yes you made a mistake, but anyone with more brain than a verizon rep will get the point!) - bocaJWho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14when he started talking to the woman, it almost seemed like recognition of the error dawned on her when he said "how do you write one cent?" and she said "point 01"; "now write half a cent" "ok...point 005?...well I'm not mathematician *giggles* the computer gave you your bill"
- nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12like someone mentioned below the audio is only 27 minutes... my bad.
- GoodAtIt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Holy crap, how dumb could they get?
- surfing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9http://www22.verizon.com/foryourhome/ContactUs/Contactus_email_form.asp
Send them a message - samfernandez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18"Every company has its fair share of morons."
And the rest work for Verizon. - junkmail02, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8what impressed me most is how patient this customer was. i personally would have lost it and cursed out the rep. after 3 mins of talking to him.
- aOenEz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11The funny thing is the service reps are probably sitting on the other end of the phone thinking "wow this guy's a dumbass. I cant believe he doesn't get it."
:) - asdffds, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9***** UPDATE:
http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/ - riddlebox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8HAHA her Voicemail box is full....shes going to get pissed. I love digg, because I beleive as a community we can get this guy refunded. I would refuse to pay the bill and take them to court.
- knish, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Andrea: 1-888-581-1070 (Ext. 2234)
mailbox is full...lol - shoblime, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2All I can say about verizon:
They continued to bill me for DSL 6 months after I cancelled the service and moved. It took about 8 calls but eventually I found out that by talking to a different person each time you will eventually find someone who will fix it in 30 seconds with no questions and then apologize.
So yeah I'm not a big fan, but they gave me my $205 back within 2 days after I FINALLY got someone who would listen to me (they were offering me 3 months at first saying i couldn't contest anything older than 90 days) so yeah I learned to watch my bank account more closely and call until you find someone nice I guess.... - L0t3k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Clearly the people he's dealing with are retarded... but I'll play devils advocate.
This is an example of why you should never advertise with a cent mark, you always do $0.02. Of course people are going to get confused. Most of the time the customer looks at the number and just knows that one possibility is insane, and one possibility sounds reasonable... but there are always a few out there.
I mean, $0.00002 per kilobyte? C'mon now.
- dshPls, on 10/12/2007, -8/+102I doubt it, so long as their calculator says what they want, he'll be fighting. I just wonder how you can get a job like this and not have basic math skills.
- MichaelJN, on 10/12/2007, -2/+50Ouch my brain hurts. Not the brightest bunch in the world at Verizon...
- stupidverizon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+69After browsing digg anonymously, I went through the trouble to actually register so I could digg this submission.
I couldn't come up with a better name. - hobbers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10GUYS ... this is a very good lesson in teaching people topics that they don't understand. The guy had a couple of good chances to take his examples one more step and have the people show themselves that something looks stupid. They may not be willing to accept it, but they would know something is wrong. I kept cringing because the guy would take his examples only so far then start providing excuses for the person on the phone. And guess what happened - the person on the phone seized those excuses and ran with them, at which point the guy had to start all over again. I don't know if he would have been able to get the point through eventually or not ... but he didn't do the best job to try and change how those people were thinking.
The real question is - what should he have been charged? Is a typical rate .002 dollars/kB or .002 cents/kB? I've never used such a service, so I don't know. The .002 dollars/kB means 2.048 dollars/MB or 2097.152 dollars/GB - this seems extremely expensive to me, but for cellular service maybe it is normal. The .002 cents/kB means 2.048 cents/MB or 2097.152 cents/GB (about 21 dollars/GB). This seems much more reasonable to me. And considering that with web hosting (I know it's not the same, but just for comparison), you can get anywhere from 100 GB to 1000 GB per month for something in the range of $10 to $50 per month ... the $21/GB makes more sense than $2100/GB. On the Verizon website, they make it difficult to find any rate information for data, but I found one page that said "PDA/Smartphone 10MB Plan" for $29.99.
One last thing - several times the guy referenced one of the reps that said "well, you should have known the difference because you use the service regularly", to which his response was that he has an unlimited service so he does not know what rates are normally. THIS MEANS that he was able to get that rep to understand the difference between .002 dollars and .002 cents. Seems like he should have stuck with that rep.
I'd say he has a good case if he went to small claims. Anyone have any idea how you would take Verizon to small claims? And how you would actually get them to pay you? They wouldn't reverse the bill, but you could just get reimbursed for paying the bill.
- stupidverizon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+69After browsing digg anonymously, I went through the trouble to actually register so I could digg this submission.
- ServAce85, on 10/12/2007, -2/+66Verizon is a bunch of idiots. I can't believe how dense they are.
- modeless, on 10/12/2007, -2/+43No kidding. I have a refund check from them for 1 cent. They sent this check to me US Mail, first class, at a cost of 37 cents in postage. Furthermore, they sent me another letter to inform me that they were about to send the check, another 37 cents. And why were they sending me a check for 1 cent in the first place? They accidentally double-billed me for a phone line installation due to their malfunctioning website, then refunded me the redundant charge plus one extra cent (a typo, presumably).
- jerbaker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10As every libertarian will tell you, private industry does things more efficiently than government.
- rchmura, on 10/12/2007, -4/+247Forgot to carry the "nullity"?
- mikesty, on 10/12/2007, -31/+7Nope, Verizon's just too much Gangelung for that sort of money.
- MikeSobe, on 10/12/2007, -13/+7What else is there to say but wow.
- buddyw, on 10/12/2007, -4/+30you can read about the whole thing here: http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/
- MattyLite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+72Dear God, those kinds of things make me wish I had the power to strangle people over the phone line.
- CedEx, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Use the Force...
- PAJK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Use the Schwartz :D
- MisterNipples, on 10/12/2007, -1/+36it hurts so much to listen to this......
- chris182, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11There is no way I could have stayed on the phone that long talking to ignorant people. His explanation is nearly perfect, except for a couple slips, but damn if I had to explain it that much I would too.
- Myself248, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I had to stop twice and do something else for a few minutes before I could continue listening, I was physically upset and becoming nauseous. This is weapons-grade stupidity, and Verizon posesses dangerous concentrations of it!
But yet, I think if I knew I were recording the call, I could probably muster the same patience, just because of the knowledge that I, and putfile, and blogger, and digg, held the upper hand.
I hope plenty of math teachers play this for their students. - craiger316, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@chris182,
I think he stayed on the phone so long because he was recording the convo and probably had full intentions of posting it on the web to get as famous as the "guy who tried to cancel his AOL account". I mean *****, that AOL guy ended up on the Today show and CNN. - Echidna, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Myself: That's exactly what I was thinking. I know I'm going to try and work it into my Math class.
And the kids say they'll never use math. HA! - missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1echidna, they'll just grow up to work for Verizon.
- nikoniko, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20YouTube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp0HyxQv97Q&eurl=
- m3mn0n, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Good because "Your are on page 1 of 10 before the download page. NEXT PAGE" was pretty lame.
- toconnor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+42The audio is only 27 minutes, not an hour and 43.
- elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+144No, it's .3833333 hours.
Or is it .00383333 hours..?
- junkmail02, on 10/12/2007, -2/+170.3833333
i work for tmobile
- elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+144No, it's .3833333 hours.
- MisterNipples, on 10/12/2007, -14/+257I wish I could digg this twice!
- sickfreq, on 10/12/2007, -26/+378I don't know about digging twice, but if you click on that little green thumbs up sign rapidly, you can score anyone multiple points. I used to be able to get it up to 6-10, but now I can only get about 3. Try it! It doesn't work on the red thumbs down.
I just upped that nullity comment by 3. - x3nos, on 10/12/2007, -18/+107@sickfreq
That is pretty good. Wonder which moron in QA missed that one? Got 4 up for MisterNipples :P - strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -42/+11wrong, I dugg you down twice
- mink78, on 10/12/2007, -37/+14Holy ***** - that really works.
- MikeOSX, on 10/12/2007, -7/+122@ sickfreq
and the funny part is you have probably done it tons of times without realizing that when you refresh the page, it only counted one of your diggs. - addakorn, on 10/12/2007, -28/+12@MikeOSX Based on the experimentation that I just completed, you are wrong. It does work.
- sickfreq, on 10/12/2007, -1/+56Mike may be right, I just did it again, refreshed, and they were gone. I tried to up addakorn by as much as I could, he got to about 5. Only one counted. I actually contacted Digg about this a while ago, and they said they were working on it.
- MikeOSX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+54@ addakorn
...um, no it doesnt. Refresh the page, you will see it only counts one digg. - withincontext, on 10/12/2007, -3/+32@sickfreq
It doesn't count more than one vote. There is a lag between the call to the server and the node update for the count. Refreshing the page shows the true server value, which is only +1. - PatrickFisher, on 10/12/2007, -4/+47Dammit, got beaten by three people. digg me up.
Oh damn. It was worth a try :) - Kickersny, on 10/12/2007, -21/+38"I wish I could digg this twice!"
You can. http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Verizon_doesn_t_know_Dollars_from_Cents - lucaq, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6OMFG, it works! I wunda-never-thunk
- mink78, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9After I read MikeOSX's comment, I tested this on multiple posts with a smaller chance of a large group of people viewing (see: stories not on the front page). I will have to agree that Mike is correct, and that the db behind the functionality is only registering one official vote.
I wonder what causes the initial count jump before the refresh is performed. (js script for realtime update vs actual read on the db record for the comment?) - rbond, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@sickfreq:
Actually what happens that despite the count being displayed, it only counts once during a green thumbs. Refresh the web page and you will see that it counts as one. I actually thought the same thing too when I first did that, so don't feel bad. Sometimes diggs will do the same thing to me. - withincontext, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16@mink78
It's the Web 2.0/AJAX/asych approach to updating content on a static page. Digg is dynamically updating the page content using XHTML and JavaScript.
Each time you click the button, JavaScript increments the current count (database value). The JavaScript then posts the +1 vote to the server, where there is most likely an application that validates the count and only allows one vote per registered user.
At the same time the page sends the server request, the JavaScript increments the vote count +1 for each click and re-displays the incremented #. That is why you can mash the button and see the increment go up a few times. But when you reload the page, it requests the true value from the app/db and therefore you only see the single vote.
Blah. - bizchris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@sickfreq
That's still a great way to mess with people. Just mention the multi-digg while forgetting to tell them about the refresh wiping it out. Everything they tried to digg, they'll be multi-clicking frantically... - mikeazorin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yea, that's a little bug in the javascript been there for a while. It looks like you can digg it more than once, but if you refresh you will see only one is actually counted.
- myshoeshurt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Yes, but 2 diggs is not the same as .002 of one digg.
- sickfreq, on 10/12/2007, -26/+378I don't know about digging twice, but if you click on that little green thumbs up sign rapidly, you can score anyone multiple points. I used to be able to get it up to 6-10, but now I can only get about 3. Try it! It doesn't work on the red thumbs down.
- eguler, on 10/12/2007, -4/+30There is a more heavily trafficked digg thread for the Verizon 100x-Billing incident at this URL posted directly by the guy who got fleeced:
http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Verizon_doesn_t_know_Dollars_from_Cents
I added my comments there last night. It is mindblowing that Verizon can make such a mistake and then flatly refuse to budge about it. - elchip, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I loathe Verizon.
Although, are any cell phone companies much better?- mink78, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Yeah - T-Mobile. JD Powers Customer Satisfaction award winners 4 years in a row.
- oddmanout, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3depends where you're at, here in south LA T-mobile has no towers, but cingular is by far the best as far as coverage goes.
- bobbyi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Believe it or not, Verizon's DSL people are even worse than their cell phone people.
- Koppie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, T-Mobile is way better. I live in San Francisco and the reception is not as good as Verizon, but their customer service is fantastic. Verizon used to drive me NUTS. Piece of mind is worth slightly worse reception, and if you live in a major city the reception won't be that bad no matter who you go with.
- Koppie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0oops sorry didn't mean to double post
- shaolinpunks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Believe it or not, Verizon's DSL people are even worse than their cell phone people."
AMEN!
- hotbeefman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Off by the power of 10^2. ask them for a $1 back with their math.
- madenosine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Actually, they're off with a *factor* of 10^2, not a *power*, making either your math or your English off
- InsideTheAsylum, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I'm ten minutes into the call and the bar says that it goes to 1:44:33.. Wow..
- ArielMT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9The call is actually only 27 minutes long. "Only" being a relative term, of course.
- missflibbles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good God, on the phone with these r-tards for a half hour.
- airencracken, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2Dupe.
- sick_spd, on 10/12/2007, -15/+1Your in Canada. They don't have Dollars... They use Canadian Dollar (CAD). That's why!
Those wacky canucks! - beatmix01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8verizon doesnt do anything for mis-quotes.
- david76, on 10/12/2007, -16/+2Yeah, but he was misquoted, and then everyone explained to him that the rate per kilobit was .002 cents, the quote was correct, AND he was charged correctly.
- ArielMT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Somehow I think that's about to change for at least one man's bill. The "misquote" was noted on his account, according to the call, so what really happened is he got mis-billed.
- david76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5EDIT, my comment above should have read "and he was charged INcorrectly". Typo.
- loconet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sure but they are not misquoting according to the reps he's speaking with and the e-mail he got from Nikki, yet another customer service rep.
http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/index.html
- shaggy5665, on 10/12/2007, -0/+48This guy has a ton of patience!
- dynacrylic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11This reminds me of the AOL incidents where AOL wouldn't cancel service for those that have deceased.
- wyngnut, on 10/12/2007, -40/+2I can't believe I wasted my time listening this because he had to spend $0.000071 million dollars. Let me know when his bill turns into $71 million dollars.
Plus this guy is a bit arrogant on the phone. The VZW guy was actually quite nice even though he didn't get it.- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+46That guy was a saint on the phone. I couldn't believe he kept his composure as well as he did. I'm a pretty calm guy but by that point I would have been yelling and cursing and kicking small animals.
- Schmecky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+39Yes, how arrogant of him to assume people sending him bills would understand basic math.
- DevilsAdv0cate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Your dollar sign is redundant. You may either say "$71 Million" or "71 Million Dollars". Put both in, and you're just an idiot.
- turquoisefish, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I had something similar to this with T-Mobile in the UK, the mistake was partly mine though. Data was quoted on the website as 75p but not per megabyte as i presumed but oddly 75p per 100kb!
- mookiemookie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31I love the long pauses while the rep desperately tries to figure out what the hell is going on. You can almost hear the squeaking of the gears in his simple, child-like mind.
- GabrielS, on 10/12/2007, -14/+4Holy smokes. 1 hour and 43 minutes? This guy is patient.
- dickeytk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17it's not that long, it's about 28 minutes
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11This story was already on the front page today here: http://digg.com/tech_news/Verizon_doesn_t_know_Dollars_from_Cents
I guess it's good enough to be on twice though. If you enjoy this you might want to check out the discussion in the other story though. - Kelliente, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29Oh. my. god. Sometimes when people are that stupid, there's just no way you can argue with them. They defeat you by virute of their superior stupidity.
- beatmix01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6god that hold music/marketing crap makes me so unbelievably sick to my stomach.
i dont think anything can get on my nerves more.- DangerMouse9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5What about being locked in a room for 12 hours with Paul Reiser, Steve Gutenberg, and Carrot Top without a blunt/sharp object in sight and no way to touch them.
- Neiby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27This is one of the most painful things I've ever heard.
- unleashedlive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I feel the need to seriously hurt that verizon guy right now.
- SebG, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15I dropped Verizon because of their horrible customer servce
- ChimRichalds, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You are definitely not the only one! Thank God I do not have to deal with this any more...
- balloot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Same here. Verzion's customer service + their constantly being 2 years behind on new phones = me being a new Cingular customer.
- FMKaiba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15THEY ARE MORONS >< that girl.... she is dummer then the guy... he needs to ask to speak to someone with a brain
- sphinx13, on 10/12/2007, -22/+2Digg the real ***** article.
Why do people resubmit other people's ***** and get more diggs?
http://digg.com/tech_news/Verizon_doesn_t_know_Dollars_from_Cents- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18No need to be an ass about it. Dupes happen. Bury the story as a dupe and move on. If you must make a comment at least be civil about it. It's not like people are intentionally digging dupes just to annoy you.
Incidentally I posted a dupe nazi comment in this thread before your dupe nazi comment, making your's...wait for it...a duplicate! ;) - Shug, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Wahhh, Wahhh, I didn't get my Diggs.
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18No need to be an ass about it. Dupes happen. Bury the story as a dupe and move on. If you must make a comment at least be civil about it. It's not like people are intentionally digging dupes just to annoy you.
- chrisk9, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Some of the Verizon operators are idiots. A while back I called Verizon to get a refund for a call charge on a Saturday morning (when I was supposed to have unlimited no-fee). Well I spent at least five minutes trying to explain to the operator when the weekend was supposed to start -- her form said Saturday at 12:01am and she took it to mean noon! And she was not budging from her position! Finally after speaking with a supervisor it got straightened out.
- RidesAPaleHorse, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4please delete
- geepee, on 10/12/2007, -42/+2Working in a call center sucks.
The guy calling in has reason to be angry, but he's a total jerk about it. So some people aren't as smart as you, big deal. Express yourself in a more professional manner instead of confusing them even more (which he's doing), and you'll get what you want.
Call center workers don't give a damn about you, so just be nice to them and you're more likely to get what you need.- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+41The guy deserves an award for being a saint as far as I'm concerned. He was amazingly polite throughout the entire call. If you think he was being an ass you deserve a ***** job in a call center.
- dalex1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22How the hell could he have made that any more clear? Seriously. I'd like to hear how he could have worded that so that any one of those people would understand.
- geepee, on 10/12/2007, -40/+4I don't think he was being as ass, I think he was intentionally being a jerk calling in with people around so they could try and cause some confusion and make himself look cool on the internet. He called in recording the call knowing full well what was going to take place.
Ask any Canadian taking calls from Americans and they'll tell you, most Americans are assholes on the phone.
lol, digg me down. - dalex1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Ahh, now I get it... you don't understand the difference in math either. Enjoy your life as a phone rep, *****.
- GordZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Geepee's an ass
American's arn't assholes..
He is.
what a chump - geepee, on 10/12/2007, -21/+1Uh-oh.
I'm in trouble now...Some dude on the internet is calling me on my math skills and my place of employment. - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12"He called in recording the call knowing full well what was going to take place."
He knew full well that three people in a row, including a manager, would be completely incapable of understanding the difference between a dollar and a cent? Wow! - geepee, on 10/12/2007, -20/+1No, he knew he could cause some confusion.
Sure, it's insane that 3 people don't have an understanding of some math, but he went well beyond what he needed to say.
I laughed while listening to this because it is funny, but it's the type of thing that I'm on the fence aboot, and that seems to make people hate me for some reason.
Calling me a ***** because I see both sides of something? Sorry. - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"he went well beyond what he needed to say."
How did he go beyond what he needed to say? They never did realize their mistake nor did they offer to refund his money. Do you honestly think they would refund $70 when they didn't see their error just to be nice? You're living in a dream land. - GordZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@geepee
did you even listen to the call?
the reps / manager were morons
what do public schools teach in canada?
French? - cbulman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@geepee - Seeing both sides of something? Please forgive the rest of us for not being able to see the wrong side, like you. My ultimate fantasy would be seeing these Verizon employees and yourself drowned in a bucket by Charles Darwin.
- geepee, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2lol, commenting on digg is so useless.
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@geepee: It seems we all agree your comments are useless. ;)
- dc4479, on 10/12/2007, -13/+2You know what the problem is....Friggin Canadians.
- kherrick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm not sure why there is an American/Canadian bash going on here... I think this was an all American festivity on the telephone... The only thing Canadian about it was where he used the kilobytes.
- jothaxe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2This call was so entertaining because it rings true.
- donquixote235, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38It would (hopefully) have been a lot easier for him if he'd asked them to ignore "dollars" and "cents" and use the word "bananas". Once they do the math, and and say "you would owe us 71.79 bananas", say "all right, now instead of dealing with bananas, we're dealing with cents. Replace every reference to the word banana with cent, and tell me how much I owe."
But then again, based on the moronics of the conversation so far, they'd probably come back with "dollars!"- MiDri, on 10/12/2007, -1/+37I do all my business in bananas... However; I do live in the Congo...
- anagoge, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Donkey Kong's on Digg!
- thePoopSmith, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26Who's on first?
- chazcross, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Who is on first.
- willpall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What?
- koick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4No, what's on second.
- kylesellers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14We need major phone service reform. The billing from all the cell phone companies is deceptive and inaccurate.
- dark_helmet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9my brain is melting into my feet.....
- mrsark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+36its obviously a difference of opinion!
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28That was my favorite quote out of the entire exchange. Apparently now we need to let people express their creativity and individuality even in math.
- nopal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26That is perhaps the most frustrating thing I have heard in a long time.
- dm33, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This explains alot. I've had endless problems with Sprint regarding billing and anything else. How can this level of incompetence be legal? Someone gives you a price, they need to honor it. He has a record of it.
I would hope that in addition to not paying $71, that this would cause an uproar and investigation into billing tactics by the mobile phone operators.- kherrick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was just thinking about how .002 cents sounds so much more appealing than .002 dollars. It's like the marketers in stores who throw .99 on the end of everything... SALE SALE SALE! For the phone company to quote someone on the telephone 0.2 cents per kilobyte is so much more painful to the ear.
- rodneygiles, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2This is freaking hilarious.
- vanscott, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Why is everyone so shocked that some manager at Verizon is a nit-wit who can't do math?
Rule of thumb, keep reminding yourself that half the people on this planet are below average, this way you won't continually be surprised when you encounter morans.- wyngnut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7When you call someone a moron try to spell it right..
Like this.....Moron... - samadam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4No. "Half the people on Earth are below average" is not true. You are thinking of the Median. That quotation is horrible. Fun, but bad math.
If everyone but one person scores a 10% on a test, and the other person scores a 99%, the average is about 11%. How many people are below average now? Everyone but one. - justdelegard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2With a similar computation you find that the majority of people have an above average number of limbs.
- pjcsoundsystem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average
In mathematics, an average or central tendency of a set (list) of data refers to a measure of the "middle" of the data set. There are many different descriptive statistics that can be chosen as a measurement of the central tendency.
...
There are several different kinds of calculations for central tendency, the kind of calculation that should be used depends on the type of data (level of measurement) and purpose for which the central tendency is being calculated:
* Arithmetic mean - the sum of all measurements divided by the number of observations in the data set
* Median - the middle value that separates the higher half from the lower half of the data set
...
- wyngnut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7When you call someone a moron try to spell it right..
- dys2k6, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22The supervisor he speaks to at the end is named "Andrea" and her phone number is 1-888-581-1070 ex. 2234.
If you wish to call and inform her about her error, go ahead and show solidarity with the submitter- ihatebillg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6lets see if we can digg effect on a voice mail system
call now - pathfindertech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I called but the voicemail box is full. I'll try on monday.
- freecheeseman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Mailbox is full....
Maybe the sheer number of callers will get the point through.
How many messages do you think she has? - abusive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yeah, cause calling will help the cause.
C'mon guys. Would you really want people to call and harass you at work because of a mistake you made? - loconet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The incredible thing is that not only have more than 2 reps quoted him as 0.002 cents, got it written on his file, but also got an e-mail from Verizon saying that the quoted price was right and that they are willing to refund him half of his money. This is no longer a simple math/reading error. This is flat out robbery.
- ihatebillg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6lets see if we can digg effect on a voice mail system
- EuroMarkus, on 10/12/2007, -30/+3The customer is totally in the right.
However, he comes off very arrogant and condecending to the rep,
which just makes him look bad.
Instead of belittling the rep, he could just say, these are the 2 amounts,
and this is an error that I want fixed.
Knowing he is taping the call and going to post his "smartiness", he goes on and on about the amounts trying to school the guy.
The customer is an ass.- TheGenericName, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Er, no. Given the incredible lack of understanding of basic mathematics these people displayed, and given that he spent 22 minutes politely explaining the difference between dollars and cents over and over again, trying to come up with example after example in order to get through to those people....He acted *far* better than I would have in a similar situation.
- EuroMarkus, on 10/12/2007, -18/+1
No, his call is more about schooling Verizona reps on math rather than
getting his bill fixed, with his "I'm teaching math here... get your calculator.."
He goes into "point zero zero", "point zero zero", "point zero zero", ad nauseum.
The reps don't know basic math, I get it, they also make .00000002 dollars an hour.
All he has to say is "Here is the amount you charged, and this is what it should be". - geepee, on 10/12/2007, -13/+1Finally, someone who sees it from the other side of the fence.
digg++; - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12They were NEVER going to refund him the amount in question unless they saw their mistake, which, amazingly enough, they never did. Given the circumstances he was very polite.
If somebody actually spent 25 minutes trying to convince me 1=100 I would probably spontaneously combust. - TheGenericName, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7But the problem, Euro, is that because they cannot see the math, they don't agree with changing the bill. I mean, why should they: If you were to call up, say, your cable company and say "This bill shouldn't be $100, it should be $1." they will likely need more than simply your say-so before they change it.
Hence, their understanding is required, and thus he tried explaining it in very simple language. They didn't get it. He remained polite throughout, if a bit (understandly) frustrated. - wyngnut, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4Actually VZW is very good about refunding money EVEN if you actually used the service.
I called once about a large text message charge (somehow my all inclusive option had slipped off my bill on getting a new phone) and the operator said well be happy to refund this charge and add the appropriate plan. I suppose if you tried to do it every month there would be a problem. Just FYI, you can do the same thing with late charges, most companies have a policy about refunding them "once in a while"
They key is to be nice, not a condesending prick.
And FWIW, when I was flying a lot a few years I got upgraded to first class 5 times in 3 years, just by being cordial to the gate personnel.
Customer service is a crap job.
Now I'm not defending not getting the math, but admit it....it took a couple seconds for all of you to comprehend the difference between $.02 and $.0002 - EuroMarkus, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1
@TheGenericName your explaination is EXACTLY how he SHOULD have
stated his aurgument.
People aren't good at VERBALLY hearing about fractions and decimals.
Had he said, like you stated, "My bill is $100 when it should be $1", they rep
would have gotten what he was trying to say faster:
"You quoted me a rate that would have made my bill $1, but you actually calc'd
a rate that put the bill at $100" and then work from there.
Huffing, and puffing and saying "point zero two", "point zero zero two", "point zero two", "point zero zero two", etc doesn't futher his getting a refund, it just makes
a better post for his blog. - cbulman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The customer is far, far more patient than Verizon deserved. Some of us don't believe mediocrity should be rewarded. Other, like Euromarkus and geepee, believe it should be celebrated.
The customer wasn't a prick, he was just tired of explaining third-grade math repeatedly to people who never had to learn it because people like you never held them to account. - geepee, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Thanks for putting words into my mouth, but I never said anything should be celebrated. I was just trying to point out that I find the guy is being a jerk. I'm sorry that I have a difference of opinion. Next time I'll agree with the masses.
- mrsark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18this is painful.. so painful
- vanik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6seconded. but i can't stop!
- tw0bit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3truelly painful...the US never got used to the decimal system, and im squirming in my seat
- bentrop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24It's like a car accident, but I can't stop listening.
"This clearly is a difference in opinion!" :-S
"Everbody you talked to so far told you it's 0.002 cents"
"Do you see there is a difference between 1 Dollar and 1 cent"
"Yes"
"Do you see there is a difference between 0.5 Dollars and 0.5 cents"
"Yes"
"Do you see there is a difference between 0.002 Dollars and 0.002 cents"
"No"
Absolutely unbelieveable ...
- supermansuper, on 10/12/2007, -19/+5This is what happens when you put americans in customer service...
Great american accents (!) but piss poor IQ- fitchmicah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6hey man, it's not all americans!
- samadam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+34I was once in a gas station. Candy bars were advertised at .49 cents. I asked for ten of them for five cents. The cashier didn't get it. I just laughed and left.
-
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