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36 Comments
- ThetaDot, on 11/28/2007, -1/+18If as a society we still want the concept of a "University" to represent the pursuit of knowledge, and to honor that desire, than the scanning of 7 million books can only aid in that quest (despite Google's desires). Those scans could eventually open the accessibility of those materials to a much larger group of people, once a book's individual copyright expires. In the meantime, UofM students will be able to access materials through the UM network from their own home -- a very convenient service.
- wearenotsickmen, on 11/28/2007, -7/+21go blue
- Error601, on 11/28/2007, -1/+11Does that mean they'll take the signs down at the copiers about duplicating significant portions of books being unethical?
- andrewcsayer, on 11/28/2007, -1/+9Just don't be evil
- Murdats, on 11/28/2007, -1/+7right, because its so easy to censor the internet.
as for removing content, especially forbidden content, thats even easier, right? - DeepNarcosis, on 11/28/2007, -0/+3Why is this any different from any other corporate venture with the University of Michigan, such as Nike for the Football team or Apple for the computer labs, I mean as far as conflict of interest?
- maxer64, on 11/28/2007, -8/+11It's great to be a Michigan Wolverine.
- Jarden, on 11/28/2007, -3/+5Yep, just make sure you do the same thing when you rip that CD of yours to MP3.
- schmitey, on 11/28/2007, -2/+4As a student I'm all for it! Unless I absolutely cannot find sources, I refuse to cite a book or article that I can't find digitally. Lets face it, physical libraries are a pain in the ass and a logistical (and costly) nightmare for the city or school that run them. I've even gone so far as to find books via google book search and quote pages having never physically seen the book. The digital form lets me find relevant quotes immediately...I don't have time to check out and skim through books at a library in the hopes it has something useful for me. In the meantime, I'm gonna have to befriend a UofM student and grab their login!
- ghineman, on 11/28/2007, -1/+3It's so hard to agree when there is such a conflict of interest in the relationship between Google and U of M. I agree with her anyway.
- pcsperson, on 11/28/2007, -0/+2I always thought this was great idea. I mean the fact that you can now search for words or phases in a book like you can on the internet, will always be useful to us procrastinating college kids writing papers the day before it is due.
- factory81, on 11/28/2007, -1/+3Google expanded in to the Ann Arbor area within the last year or two. They added some 1000+ jobs to the area. If the librarian has any new friends, it is Google I think. Michigan is hit hard for jobs. Adding 1000 high paying jobs to Michigan is a gift.
- ExtraCheez, on 11/28/2007, -0/+1Pretty flimsy argument for conflict of interest.
- AnthonyC, on 11/28/2007, -1/+2It seems that Ferentz is no longer in the running and Miles is the next target.
- comrade693, on 11/28/2007, -1/+2I go to U of M and I've *never* seen a sign like that...
- knobtwiddler, on 11/28/2007, -0/+1Paul Courant is right..The benefits of having all these texts scanned far outweigh any potential conflict of interst or copyright infringement. I think it falls under fair use.
GO BLUE - DeepNarcosis, on 11/28/2007, -0/+1Not just Blue Collar, as a UM grad, it took me over 6 months of constant searching just to land a Blue Collar job; it's been almost a year now and no hope on the horizon for that cushy White Collar position I once had...
- Error601, on 11/28/2007, -0/+1I wasn't being that literal.
- jdwusami, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1I love digital books. When I am reading an old analog book it is a pain because i may remember part of the book but cannot just run a search for that keyword like I can on the Internet. That is why I prefer to use online documentations rater then going to a library to try and find data. library's are not an efficient means of locating data.
- bmcnally, on 11/28/2007, -1/+2The problem with the jobs that Google brought to Michigan is that they do not help Michigan in the short term. What you have is rampant unemployment due to auto companies closing down, leaving many blue-collar workers out in the cold. The Google office that is located in Ann Arbor is their AdWorks, meaning that it is inaccessible to blue-collar workers, as well as most of the college graduates coming out of the University, as they would be expected to have at least some industry experience before working in a more managerial role.
Google might be a librarian's friend, but not due to them bringing in jobs. - KDAY12, on 11/28/2007, -5/+5A Michigan grad myself. I'll dig ya up :)
- Farnn, on 11/28/2007, -1/+1Totally agree with you, digital sources are so much easier. I just finished writing a paper for which I needed 2 primary sources and I was able to find both online from the U of M library. Definately made my paper easier though the text(from the conversion software) wasn't the best so I was using the digital scans which were also included
- Farnn, on 11/28/2007, -1/+1Not to mention the huge library Michigan has to scan.
- pw378, on 11/28/2007, -2/+2I think this book scanning project may go down in history as one of the great achievements of mankind. I also think this huge corpus of information will lead to even greater achievements, such as universal translators and AI.
Google is not favoring any particular library, university or country... and the fact the libraries get to keep free digital copies of their books means no "one" entity will control ownership or access, the libraries can provide access just as it should be.
Bavarian State Library
Cornell University Library
Harvard University
Ghent University Library
Keio University Library
The National Library of Catalonia
The New York Public Library
Oxford University
Princeton University
Stanford University
University of California
University Complutense of Madrid
University Library of Lausanne
University of Michigan
University of Texas at Austin
University of Virginia
University of Wisconsin - Madison
Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC)
(source: http://books.google.com/googlebooks/partners.html)
Just my humble opinion... - LeeSoong, on 11/28/2007, -4/+4oh, this is where one SciFi author suggested that digitizing books was the first step to the elimination of physical libraries.
After that, well - then came the rewriting of certain books, parts of history, and the elimination of books that no longer supported the current rulers... - p57098, on 11/28/2007, -0/+0I think it's funny that he said "We have a generation of students who will not find valuable scholarly works unless they can find them electronically." So many of the books in the library are out of print or extremely difficult to find. The books get lost/stolen with surprising regularity. If that book is out of print, the library, the students, and the public are SOL. If they're not offering the entire book online, then it sounds like fair use. If they're offering the entire text to Michigan students only (via IP or login), then it sounds like fair use.
- schmitey, on 11/28/2007, -1/+1Are you a U of M student? I'm not finding any way to actually access their digital library...
- invzim, on 11/28/2007, -0/+0Or the ones that want to find relevant sources without the inconvenience of having to skim through a whole book. You find what seems to be interesting, and then read the whole thing to verify that it is, or not.
I enjoy reading physical books much more than reading digital versions, but in terms of research it becomes a lot more convenient and you can plow through hundreds of useless sources much faster than analyzing each source physically. Making the task of finding relevant material much better.
It's certainly true with the scientific papers I'm used to deal with, and it seems also to be true with books. - LeeSoong, on 11/28/2007, -1/+1Why, yes it is easy to censor the internet - especially in China.
As government control expands, you sure can bet more governments to follow China's example... - Error601, on 11/28/2007, -2/+2A fiction and a false analogy. Good work.
- froinlaven, on 11/28/2007, -2/+1For further reading, check out this previous essay by Paul explaining the scholarly reasons for the project:
http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue11_8/couran ... - Error601, on 11/28/2007, -2/+1Just say "I'm too lazy to get off my ass and do research" and skip the rest. Keyword searching books for out of context quotes should get you big old F on that paper.
- Error601, on 11/28/2007, -5/+3As long as they get permission from the copyright holder BEFORE making the scan copy.
- jayvisaria, on 11/28/2007, -6/+1See, I always knew there is something that keeps people from total disgust of the Wolverines - this just might be it.
- taizoshiozaki, on 11/28/2007, -7/+1Hmm, it seems someone's going to get fired soon. I wonder how much a head librarian gets paid.
- TriviallyTravis, on 11/28/2007, -13/+314-3
Bitches.
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