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88 Comments
- celkin, on 07/08/2008, -6/+90***** THE MPAA!!!
- Shogi, on 07/09/2008, -4/+62Wow, the MPAA makes organized crime look like amateur hour.
- nascentia, on 07/09/2008, -3/+59The biggest problem with the MPAA's argument is they're saying that every time someone downloads a movie, that's money they lose. But really, there is NO way to prove this.
You might have someone who will never, ever, pay to see Transformers, and will never rent it, but that person still wants to see it. So they download it. That's not money lost, because that person would have never paid you anyways.
Or say someone normally only buys DVDs used once they're in the Blockbuster 4 for $20 bin. They pay $5 for the movie, and that all goes to BB, not to the studios. So if that person downloads a movie, it's a second-hand sale that's not going to happen, which doesn't affect the MPAA anyways.
Or, say you have someone like me who wants a favorite movie ASAP and downloads a copy before it's officially out. So say Iron Man leaks tomorrow, and comes out officially in 2 weeks. I download it tomorrow to see it again, but then buy it in 2 weeks because I'm a collector and want the case and physical copy. They haven't lost a single cent there but still register an 'illegal' download.
I could go on...downloading a copy to replace a severely scratched or lost disc, etc.
So there's NO way to say how much you've lost, because there's no criteria to base it on. - PhillAholic, on 07/09/2008, -2/+20but how much of a whinny bitch do you have to be to blame the fact that your already increasing revenue, despite a recession no less should be even higher because people are illegally downloading your movies? Something they can't even really prove completely, nor can they realistically say that each download would have been a sale. Sounds like a three year old fit to me.
- ktetch, on 07/09/2008, -1/+17yeah, but when the p2p period doesn't decline in comparison to the pre-p2p period, but grows still, its hard to claim poverty.
Filesharing is at an all time high, and last year was their best year - 'record breaking' I believe their press release called it. - adhiza, on 07/08/2008, -6/+21Protect our freedoms!
- IphtashuFitz, on 07/09/2008, -2/+15Along with the RIAA and any other *AA!
- borez, on 07/09/2008, -2/+15It reminds me of that Harvard downloading study that was done in 2004.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1027_3-5181562.html?hhTe ...
IMO there's a ton of stuff sat on my own hard drive that I would never have bought to watch or to listen to in the first place and, to be honest, if I find something I like I'll then recommend it to my mates who'll recommend it to their mates etc.etc. I don't see the problem with downloading at all, and I definitely don't see it as a criminal activity, because compared to some of the crap that gets passed off as legal nowadays... it's just not. - DracoFlameus, on 07/09/2008, -1/+12Good to see an article about our fellow pirates in the US, well done :)
- Giga, on 07/09/2008, -0/+8"rm -rf * | grep AA"
That doesn't do what you think it does... - atarijedi, on 07/09/2008, -1/+9It just so happens that I like CAA, they have helped me get into my car when I locked the keys inside!
I mean, ***** THE *AA! - bsonline, on 07/09/2008, -3/+10I've seen a lot of great reasons why each download can't be counted as a sale lost. Here's mine:
I "own" the first 4 seasons of Smallville on DVD. My wife bought them for me for Christmas. Meanwhile, I watch my downloaded copies so as to not remove the plastic. I still buy movies in DVD and BluRay (I own one HD-DVD, but my player still makes a great DVD player)... but I prefer to watch the downloads over my home network on my PS3. Easier to browse, and I can get most movies quicker from TPB than local stores. Basically, I collect cases and try to keep them unopened. From the comfort of my couch, I enjoy my downloads.
Also, I'm another "try before you buy" kind of guy. I'm on the second season of BSG - started 2 weeks ago. I've downloaded the first 3 seasons, and I can't wait for a boxed set to come out. I'll buy it, but I hope to never open it. It takes great special features for me to break that plastic. - jpmoney03, on 07/09/2008, -1/+7He didn't say that it wasn't competition at all just that it is impossible to prove how much they are really hurt by downloads since they have no way of knowing which downloads are actually lost revenue and which ones are not.
- billwands, on 07/09/2008, -0/+6great maybe you can sell the un-opened ones for gas sometime in the near future.
- ktetch, on 07/09/2008, -0/+6Yep, just as the saddlers and livery stable owners lost money from expected growth 100 years earlier. Why didn't they outlaw cars to protect them?
just as the trains and the passenger liner companies lost money from expected growth when airline travel became affordable. Lets ban aircraft.
It's business. Expected growth is not guarenteed. You can't repay a bank loan with expectations. If you business falls short of your expectations, you can't claim the money you expected to get from elsewhere.
I also looked at something else - seems there were more films after 2004, so the top films maybe got 10% of the total attendance rather than 13% - the other 3% went to see a film that interested them more, since there is more of them. - andy2125, on 07/09/2008, -1/+7Haven't you seen 24? They'll let everyone go home and use satellites to track each person to their house. At which point Jack Bauer will raid your house and magically transfer the contents of your hard drive to be analyzed so they can dish out a couple hundred thousand dollar fine for a $20 pirated DVD.
- whyufail, on 07/09/2008, -7/+13Wait, the US has a pirate party? Where do we sign?! Actually scratch that, knowing the US they'd probably just round the whole party up and arbitrarily arrest/taze/sue us once it got large enough.
- AndrewWiggin, on 07/09/2008, -2/+6Please don't digg me down for pointing out the obvious, but: a study done by the "Pirate Party" found results different than the MPAA claims? Surprizing..
- Phr00t, on 07/09/2008, -2/+6"You might have someone who will never, ever, pay to see Transformers, and will never rent it, but that person still wants to see it. So they download it. That's not money lost, because that person would have never paid you anyways."
What happens if there was no way to watch it easily for free? I bet they would be more willing to pay a small rental fee to watch it if there was no simple and free option.
I generally agree with most of your points.. but piracy is competition for the MPAA, so they do "lose" some of their profits to piracy.
/still hates the MPAA - Jeffler, on 07/09/2008, -0/+4How is it anything like that?
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3***** Alcoholics Anonymous!
- inactive, on 07/09/2008, -0/+3What freedom? To steal music and films?
- Drexial, on 07/09/2008, -3/+6I think the real argument here is they blame EVERYTHING ELSE for poor box office number.. for one movie they preemptively blamed poor movie attendance on the release of Halo 3 and the movie killed that weekend (don't remember what movie that was)
Maybe they should be looking at what kind of people see what movies and why... Don't try to make a chick flick appealing to guys and don't make a guy flick appealing to women... You will get more people watching both. The number of action movies ruined by some useless Hollywood romantic sub-plot added in for no other reason but to "broaden the viewer demographic" only kills movie sales. I know a large number of comic book fans that will never see a comic book movie because they hate what Hollywood does to them. Thats lost revenue right there. Why don't you start suing the producers for lost revenue. - Hangly, on 07/09/2008, -1/+3Yarr, don't taze me matey!
- bipolarruledout, on 07/09/2008, -1/+3The endless stream of hollywood ***** fests isn't helping. I think the smart money would be funding innovative film makers on lower budgets (like a half mil or even much less) and distributing online. The crap they are putting out just keeps getting worse every year it seems with few exceptions.
- coyote1284, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2A steady hand.
- saphyrre, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2I suppose the "official" MPAA study is more credible?... yeah right.
- caseycoold, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2I'm an American.
I'm atheist.
Half my family is atheist.
Half my friends are atheist.
We all get along fine.
Many Americans are intolerant, but many are learning.
But I do hate those who generalize so much.... - bradleyland, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2And the horrific side effect that the MPAA is worried about is that you'll be more interested in movies in general, rather than being driven away by high prices, thus increasing the likelihood that you will: pay for movies on disc that you really like, go to see a film on the "big screen" for the experience, share this information with your friends so they will do the same.
Wait... - busterti, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2are you playing with them? I have had 2 dvd's break on me. One was on purpose.
- zeabu, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2is there a way to pay a normal price, instead of paying an outrageous one?
No there isn't. So I have the opinion to be ripped of or to pay nothing at all, nothing in between. - coyote1284, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2I can't borrow it from a friend? So now you want to ***** with people who lend their legal copies to others, too?
- myDiggDog, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2it’s = "it is"
- zeabu, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2reformation : says who? I always give to musicians in the street, when I like what they're playing. I don't go home with a cd, nothing.
I like to pay, but a reasonable price. iTunes is not, it's the same price as any track on a cd, only you don't get the cd, nor the booklet, and a while back DRM-infestation.
As soon as iTunes is Flac over bittorrent for 30 cents, you'll see me buying there.
It's like paying for a pairs nike made in Turkey, when you know the same factory after official hours produces the same shoes, but without the label, and they sell them for €50 instead of €200. I go for these €50-shoes. - ZacT, on 07/09/2008, -1/+3Yes they did... Did you read the article?
they used the numbers that the MPAA released. - coyote1284, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2Suppose I never download movies/music, I'd probably just borrow the DVD/CD from a friend if it's something I'm only somewhat interested in, therefore, no profit. BTW most of what I download I DO buy when available on DVD, but I'm probably a rare case.
- zeabu, on 07/09/2008, -0/+2Yeahhh!
Stupid! - nascentia, on 07/09/2008, -1/+3That's pretty much how it is anymore, it seems. That doesn't mean it's necessarily right, but it's really how it is anymore.
Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails are a good example of how you can still succeed in this environment. The public basically views music and movies as something that's theirs and should be available free at any time, so you have to figure out how to appease that, get people to like you, yet still make money.
The NIN method definitely seems to be working - give the music away or sell it dirt-cheap to please those who will steal but never buy. If you aren't going to get their dollar anyways, just give them the music and you might have a new fan who will repay you in other ways - concert tickets or merch, typically.
Then, release a physical copy with extras that are worth having to the people who care. The Slip was released for free, but it's coming out this month physically, and with a live rehearsal DVD. That's enough for me, as a fan, to pay for it, even though I already have the music.
He's not trying to get dollars from everyone who hears his music, which is the RIAA/MPAA method. He's trying to expose as many people as possible to his music and hope they enjoy it enough to become FANS, and not just customers.
Movies can just as easily follow these guidelines. Release a low-quality, free copy of the film a month after its theatrical run ends. Sell a high-quality download for $5, tops. Then release a DVD/Blu-Ray that has a unique case with cool artwork and worth-while bonus features.
What they need to stop doing, though, is just releasing a bare-bones DVD, then 6 months later releasing the version with the extras that should have already been with it (ahem...Planet Terror/Death Proof.) THAT is what drives people to pirating, or just not watching movies period.
Like it or not, our generation is a bunch of self-centered, lazy people with short attention spans who want it NOW, our way, cheaply and easily. If you screw us, we have other things to do. Movie industry pisses me off, I can turn to music. Music pisses me off, books. Books, videogames. Videogames, Internet. And on. The industries need to intelligently compete, appeal to what we want and not screw us over.
Very few of them realize that, though, and they're still stuck in the old-school business mode where you either bought it or missed it, that was it. It's just not like that anymore, like it or not. - UtahPirate, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1Might help if someone got involved and actually did something instead of complaining about it. One thing that the Pirate Party sucks at is reading minds. Specific complaints would help everyone, and action requires numbers of people more than one. Or 10. Or even 100. We need everyone who agrees to help us create a party, because sitting there and complaining about it without being able to specifically point out what's being done wrong makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
- UtahPirate, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1As an officer in the Pirate Party of the United States, let me just say a couple of things:
1) Yes, we do have a political party in the US.
2) You join the same way you join any other political party: by registering to vote and declaring that you're a member (and remembering that preventing you from having an unpopular political opinion is unconstitutional and against the federal election rules). We are a registered political party.
3) There's nothing arbitrary about rounding up political dissidents. It's the main sign that we don't actually have a democracy. And I promise, tazing is a lot more fun than it sounds! (Or is that hazing? I always get those mixed up.)
4) "Catch me if you can" is NOT our party's motto. We actually support changing the laws, rather than breaking them. - Beylan, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2"First, the bias inherent in this study extinguishes any credibility it might have had if undertaken by an independent analyst."
There are no independent analysts. Studies only get done when a supposed "independent" think tank or study group is paid many dollars to perform the study. Such studies only serve to confirm whatever the group paying for it wants to show.
For example: the MPAA pays a study group to prove that they are losing billions of dollars a year due to piracy. Result: Study shows that the MPAA loses $6 billion a year due to piracy!
Amazing how that works out. - bsonline, on 07/11/2008, -0/+1locojones - you sound like my wife. I opened the plastic on every action figure I ever owned. I collect DVDs, I like it. It makes since to me.
- benologist, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2The two don't prove or disprove each other though, that's the problem.
If you get a payrise and robbed the payrise doesn't show or prove you weren't robbed. - coyote1284, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2"What happens if there was no way to watch it easily for free?"
Borrow the disk from a friend...
/you have friends, right? - UtahPirate, on 07/16/2008, -0/+1The Pirate Party doesn't have a specific stance on gun control, but from what I've seen among most of the memberships, coyote1284 is likely correct that a steady hand is important for gun control.
Really, we've left that issue up to individual candidates, though we openly support the Second Amendment. Incidentally, I happen to *like* black powder pistols, especially making the lead balls to put in them and seeing how accurate I can be. And, for the record, my aim sucks. - coyote1284, on 07/09/2008, -0/+1Agreed, ktetch, it's time MPAA and RIAA and the like need to adapt their business model to the trends. Take a note from Trent Reznor. Release free low-quality and cheap high-quality digital versions now, physical version with extras later.
- glenSM, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
- supermanly, on 07/09/2008, -1/+2After your comment, I'm thinking they should start to think of movies/music and stuff like that which can be pirated as a service. It's like an optional thing which you can get from different places. The movie theater is for social and casual atmosphere. At home (renting) is if you want to be in control while watching with friends. Downloading it for yourself is if you want the movie and nothing more.
- gettarat, on 11/25/2008, -0/+1They're actually doing something? usually it's just the leaders being a bunch of wind bags with this group with no action whatsoever.
http://blockbusternewreleases.org/ -
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