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36 Comments
- quasipalm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8The issue is -- we in America are running a huge trade deficit and China isn't paying for all of their imports.
So, we produce big expensive movies, software, music, and books and then Chinese people just rip them off. Meanwhile, the goods going in the other direction are physical in nature and therefore, America pays the correct price.
Now that the US is moving towards a knowledge-based economy, our exports are being "stolen" more and more often by China.
When you look at it on the national level -- you can see why we should be more concerned about China taking our IP without paying for it than people inside the US. - fmaxwell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Let's get some things out of the way first:
1. Software, video, and audio "piracy" is not theft. It is copyright infringement. This is important, because theft deprives the owner of property or money. Copyright infringement only has the potential, in some cases, to reduce the future income of a copyright holder.
2. Someone making $100 - $300 per month (that describes 70% of Chinese business workers) is not going to be able to spend hundreds of dollars on Microsoft Office, Windows XP, Adobe Photoshop, etc. So, if they buy a pirated copy of Photoshop for $7 from a street vendor, it's not going to hurt Adobe at all. Similarly, they won't be able to spend 30% of their income on DVDs and CDs.
We've done this to ourselves by condoning monopolistic practices. Now that the software and content publishers have jacked the prices sky-high, no one in the third world can afford the products. So there is rampant piracy. China's government needs to spend its limited funds on helping the Chinese people, not trying to act as an enforcement arm for the MPAA, RIAA, and Software & Information Industry Association. - nebunezzar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Maybe we should get our antipiracy situation in a better state before telling people how to run things. I doubt suing every citizen isn't the answer China needs, though prolly be happy to enforce.
- tigertiger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Software pirates? Dull. I thought they meant real Chinese pirates. :(
Yarr
If I was the Chinese government I wouldn't give a flying monkey's what the US thought about some dodgy copies of Windows and Photoshop. Hell, I'd probably encourage it just for laughs. - DannyPage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Heh. At the time of this post.. everyone was modded down to 0.
Someone must be bored. - blaksaga, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You are right on on your second point. Why should we even give a rats ass about piracy in China when there are much bigger issues here: China's oppessive government and its suffering people.
I was watching Frontline: The Tank Man on PBS yesterday and they were interviewing teenage girls who were working 7 days per week, 13 hours per day in textile factories. One girl said she sent every dime she made to her parents in order to put her brother through school. Education is not free in China; it's expensive which leaves the poor rural living citizens without.
For more information:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/
Starting Friday, you will be able to watch the entire Frontline episode online. - goforholiday, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4As a Chinese, I am really glad to know western people actually think, not totally brainwashed by the media. Politic is always politic, but people are always people. Peace!
- donatj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I say piracy should be encouraged in China. Isn't it our job to try to spread the western way there and topple communism? What better way than through our media? And when the only way to get our media is pirated, what does it matter to the US? Either way they wouldn't be making a profit.
- Rajio, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Dude, americans think they can save the rainforrest with one click
http://www.digg.com/links/Save_the_Rain-Forest
i'm sure they think that changing foreign policy and how non americans feel about them is just as easy. - JasonPrini, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Good luck.
China has a MASSIVE grey economy.
In Poland they have something called "kombinowac", to which there is no direct English translation. It's loosely translated as "working the system". It's also not always a negative thing.
Many people in China will have a similar mindset as they are brought up to kombinowac because they have to in order to survive. Here in N.A. the populace is mostly way too apathetic and lazy to even understand this concept.
Copyright infringement is not theft. IT IS NOT STEALING.
If linking to copyrighted content is illegal, then Google needs to go to jail.
If p2p software makers are liable, then so should gun makers. - Blaze312, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The only reason the US wants to stop piracy in china is because of the number of people. There are far more people in China than in any other country. No wonder they want them to stop piracy. The see a big profit coming out of their country.
I don't see why it would help much, I am sure there are many people who can barely afford the $3 for Windows... let alone $200..
Piracy isn't just rampent in China, its rampent everywhere. If people aren't buying it in the streets, they will be downloading it in their homes.
After all thats what us Americans have done now that most of the bootleggers are off the streets. - noGoodNamesLeft, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Afractus; sounds impossibly naive to me. Government will do what it can get away with regarding other countries; that's all there is to it. Right or wrong doesn't enter into it, except as something to convince those of principle that The Government Is Right. This isn't unique to the U.S. government; it's a general rule.
That having been said, the U.S. government will do what suits the U.S.; they didn't object to people pirating Dickens' works back in the (*cough*) day, but it benefits them more to have strong IP laws now.
Similarly, the Chinese government will do what *they* can get away with. And, as has been pointed out elsewhere, countries tend to be more willing to adopt stronger IP laws when they have more to gain from them. - kinapuffen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I can assure you that not much is done to prevent piracy in China. Maybe on the piracy factories but not about the stores. I was there for over a month last year and you can find copies of music and movies anywhere you go. China has bigger problems to take care of than the small loss of profit for the record companies.
EDIT: the US should be happy that all thier products are made there for less than nothing. A lot of people in China have nothing. - Junpei, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It's BS that China has to preload OS's onto their computers or else they can't sell them. Just another reason to build your own computer I suppose.
- hackmeister, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I applaud the U.S. government in pressuring the Chinese to crack down on software piracy. No one should run pirated software. The Chinese will see the light and migrate everyone to Linux. This will happen. I just got back from LWE in Boston and the Chinese are embracing Linux big time. Why should they pay a company in Redmond ridiculous amounts of money for an inferior product? My prediction: Once the Chinese adopt Linux in full we will have to fall in line in order to compete. The Chinese currently control most of the computer hardware manufacturing industry. Soon they will push their own version of Linux running on their hardware. It will happen.
- r00tus3r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4You can mod down edysteve all you want, but most non US citizens currently hold that view of the United States, and it's going to take more than a few mouse clicks to change that!
- Rajio, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Aye.
Yarrrrr. :( - ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm on to you mainly because you're writing false reasons on why Chinese people don't pay for software and you've specifically said that it should all be free. While I LOVE free software, I'd hate to see the all encompassing business supply chain program I took two years to write to be pirated. So you're giving excuses. In reality its about accessability I think, you can find a copy of Windows XP in China like you find AOL CD's in America, everywhere. Finding a real legitimate copy? *laughs*
Not to pop your bubble, but Nationalism is a major part of Nazism and its totalitarian regime. Remember just last year when Hu Jintao talked about uniting all the Chinese peoples? Hitler made the same speech about uniting the Aryan race. Anyway there are entire papers and research divisions that say the same.
As a result, its no wonder China has a) the worlds highest number of major land disputes and b) has increased its total land area by more than 25% in the last 50 years and c) is the top 3 most belligerent Asian nations in the last 50 years. It also ranks one of the world's worst in human rights and civil liberties. 25% of exported Chinese teas are made from "Lao Gai" or China's concentration camps. About 20% of Christmas Lights and other related products are made in Lao Gais specifically reserved for persecuted Christians. Human rights groups almost all agree that China's human rights is even worse than pre-Tiananmen Square levels. Hu Jintao was rated as the worlds #6th worst dictator from Parade Magazine's annual list.
So yes, in the end, most people do have negative opinions of your government. Why your government espouses anyone whom points out the problems in China as being "un-Nationalistic" and "treasonous" is obvious.
PS: According to the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, China's GDP Per Capita (with and without PPP) is about $6,000 USD and not the $10,000 you claim
Again, if you're going to claim something, please please fact check it. We are not the People's Daily and Xinhua, everything is subject to scrutiny. Accuracy is vital. - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Shouldn't the US be more concerned with these pirates?
http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-03-20-voa16.cfm - mliving, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Yup... that sounds about right for the current US administration making a STRONGER declaration for protecting the IP of US corporations rather than calling the Chinese government on their on-going MASSIVE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS and the race to the bottom US corporations have continued to exploit the human capital that China uses to secure foreign investment.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/
So its OK for Yahoo! to hand over private user information to Chinese authorities that condemn a journalist to 10 years in those oh so comfortable prisons and its OK for Cisco to sell surveillance equipment to China in DIRECT VIOLATION of existing export laws and its OK for Google to censor their Chinese users in the name of local laws.
The current US administration and US corporations are willing to ignore the very standards of human rights that many generations of fought for for NOTHING MORE THEN SICKENING CORPORATE GREED!
Watch the PBS Frontine on Tank Man and then come back here and comment of this ridiculous if not offensive announcement by the US government. - TristanTee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2omg, who cares about piracy, they have nothing better to do
- SDE06, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Watch out! China is going to eat the U.S. economy alive in the next 10 years or so, just look at the recent export figures to see how it is already happening!
- ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Speaking of piracy, its everywhere in China. Even eggs, baby formula, (food), cars (Laibao SRV, Chery QQ), even school books (save $$), medicine (yes Viagra includeD) are being faked. So if there's any crackdown, I haven't seen it.
HackMeister: I like Linux and use it personally, but the reality is that Linux becoming mainstream and becoming the most popular software in China is a pipedream. Ever play with REDFLAG linux? Thats China's version, its been out for years, and its just not popular. Even that article you posted, HackMeister, specifically says that linux was installed in a comparitively small number of computers, school computers at that!
Most students simply use Windows XP (which you can get off the street for less than a $1USD) so they can use MSN Messenger or Yahoo Messenger in China and don't have the patience to use Linux alternatives to communicate with their friends. In addition, internet gaming is incredibly huge in China and almost none of the games run on Linux. Not to mention, most Chinese users get online via Internet Cafes. Most of the netcafe management software being used in China do NOT support Linux.
Until these fundamental problems change, Linux being popular in home and office PC's in China is not going to happen. - mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2woah - the point here is they sell pirated stuff on the streets. They sell pirated stuff in malls, everywhere is pirated stuff. I do NOT like the RIAA/MPAA in america, but the truth is many american pirates do it because they want to try it before they buy it and often if it is good then they will buy it. In china and other asian places when you buy it you buy pirated, this is not good as those who make awesome stuff do not ever get the credit for it. In china it is somtimes even hard to pick a pirated copy from a legit copy of somthing.
- TheWalkingDude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm not saying I agree with it, but it makes sense. Why would they sue U.S. citizens for $3,000 a pop, yet just ignore one fourth of the world's population in a country that has nuclear warheads pointed at the U.S.? In China I can go into a regular department store and buy X-men 3 for $2US.
It's also part of the political game. It gives another bargaining chip for issues such as Taiwan, Human Rights, Trade Deficit, de-pegging the yuan, etc. http://home.muzi.com/news/ll/english/1393704.shtml?cc=25205&ccr=
If you think propaganda and media censorship are bad in the U.S.: go to China, buy a subscription to China Daily, or start watching Chinese news - it will redefine your perception. "80 miners presumed dead, U.S. believed to be responsible, Now Hiring." Don't get me wrong, I love China, but it's still a developing nation. - hombrelobo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Last time I was in NYC, I saw a lot of people selling DVDs in the street for 5 dollars each ......
- nebunezzar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm concerned about China's piracy too, but with the way we handle things here hardly make us the ones who should be telling them how to handle piracy. Our solution is sue the ***** out of everyone, which just pisses them off. Personally I don't pirate (much) stuff because the quality usually is poor. Perhaps instead of making the Chinese wait for a release there could be a simultaneous release to appease those who value quality but are impatient.
- OsakaWilson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2People I talk to in China every day say they don't even know where they can get legitimate copies of movies and TV.
- heydigital, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Fat chance. I would not be suprised if we shipped off the products to be manufactured in China in the first place.
- ShadowRider, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I'm Chinese. China has the world's second largest GDP but certainly not per capita. The average person makes something like $10,000 USD a year in China if not less. America should stop cramming ***** down people's throats, no one is able to afford software at full price. Reduced prices doesn't work because the Chinese has a tradition of saving, so they'll still find the cheapest way to obtain software.
Americans like to think of China as some sort of nazi totalerian regieme, not true, the Chinese are just very nationalistic. Fact is that you CANNOT possibly control 1.3billion people. Everything the Chinese government does in the antipiracy field is only for show.
Personally, I think it is very immoral to have the average Chinese worker pay even a few dollars for software, which is a great percentage of the wage. Not all of us live in a world of overcomsumption, certainly not the Chinese. - hackmeister, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Saw these guys at LWE last week:
http://news.com.com/The business of Linux in China/2008-7344_3-6060122.html
Linux is growing in China. It will become the defacto OS there. - inajeep, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I agree mlingin, an blatent example of MPA's and MS's deep pockets pushing legislation.
- afractus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6who cares if piracy is bad or not... its not the us governments job to try and bully everybody around. i'd be real pissed if some random stuck up ***** told me to do anything wether it was right or wrong just because it's his top priority. especially if i didn't like him to begin with.
it doesn't matter if this is good or bad. the us shouldn't tell them they have too. they might want to help them against piracy but not make them. - edysteve, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6Nothing is ever right or pefect for the U.S. Goverment.
- kokobaroko, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4World to US - F'O'K OFF
- argoff, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1The truth is that "piracy" is one of the few good things about free markets in China ...
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