What is Digg?Sponsored by Dragon Age: Origins
Can't get enough Dragon Age: Origins? Check out new footage. view!
DragonAge.BioWare.com - EA presents BioWare's new dark fantasy epic Dragon Age: Origins. '9/10' from Game Informer.
135 Comments
- Naidim, on 10/12/2007, -3/+66Here in Arizona the IRS was offering a full boat scholarship and job after graduation. Requirements: You only had to be of Hispanic descent.
If people of any specific sex, race, etc. don't want to learn to do jobs in any field, why should my tax dollars be used to give them incentive? - Adma1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+63Anyone else surprised by 28%? Where I'm at, it's class of 20-30, 1-2 girls, that's 10% if you're feeling generous.
- sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -8/+52How do you "woo" women into Computer Science? Two words: chocolate keyboards
- venir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+42Well, that explains why your name is DickBreath.
- tombest, on 10/12/2007, -3/+38I don't understand what the goal is. Why does it matter whether there are women in the field or not? I thought gender didn't matter. Also, ff you are wooing people into something, do they really want to be there as much as people who didn't need wooing, and therefore, will they be as good at it? Of course they won't. I want lots of women in the computer science field who thought of it all on their own. I also want men there who thought of it on their own.
- stuartjmoore, on 10/12/2007, -4/+37What's the point of 50% men and 50% women? Why do we need to try and force as many different genders, races, etc into all areas of life, because of what they are, not who they are...
As long as they're not rejected or looked down upon based on something like that, it's a non-issue. - monaleilani, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34I am a female Computer Science student. I run Ubuntu. I have at least 6 computers in the house and two laptops. It sucks that my classes have a ratio of 2 or 3 women to 30 men. Oh wait.. Did I say that sucks? Heh heh.
- harrier666, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32@sundancekid CHOCOLATE KEYBOARDS WHERE!?!?!
When I was working on my CS degree, I was one of maybe 3-4 females per class. We had one teacher tell us to our face that women shouldn't work in technology and he didn't like them in his class. Sexism is alive and strong (hell, just read 3/4's of the comments here). I was second in the class with an A, left the program with a 3.8 average (mostly because I hated NON CS classes so that brought my GPA down). Not that school or grades prove technical prowess anyway. I left, and became a pilot. Yet another field where women are often unwanted. But ***** em, I'm flyin! - CapeKid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27...and apparently not enough English majors.
- PleaseJustDie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28When I was going through school for software programming 28% is about right for what I went through, about 3 guys for every 1 girl. Only problem is NONE of the girls were getting A's in the classes and all of them were in a constant state of confusion about what we were going over. Every time there was a group project the groups that had girls, the guys were doing about 90% of the work on the group project.
Not saying all women are like this, but out of all the people I went to school with, I didn't want to end up working with any of the females and about a third of males taking the courses. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+29The only people who care about increasing the number of computer science students are those who make money off of it -- the schools. So, why "women"? Why in the hell would it matter what gender your students are? Very simple answer: it's an untapped market. This is the same principle used by companies who try to open up shop in China. Exploiting an untapped market is a very profitable venture.
The truth is, there are more Computer Science graduates in America than there are jobs for them. This call for more students is all a lie designed to make money. If a university computer science department gets more students, they get more funding. It's as simple as that. And this fact of life applies to ALL professions, not just computer science. - jaredvolkl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23Best quote, "The nerd factor is huge."
- nonymous666, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2138% of CS degress in '85 were female? I got my CS degree in '88 and count me as another where not even 5% were girls.
"high school girls think of computer scientists ... in isolated cubicles and a lifetime of staring into a screen writing computer code"
I WISH. My daily job is so busy that I barely have time to write the code I'm supposed to be working on. I long for those stress free days of yore, coding quietly at my PC with nobody bugging me. - leeesher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20As far as I know, I'm the only female in CS at my college.
Sure, sometimes it'd be nice to have some other girls around, but I'd much rather be in class with guys that know their stuff and love tech, than with girls that are only there because they were "wooed" into the program. - ashleycharee, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22yay for another female cs student! Most of my classes are only me and one other girl, who I am kind of afraid of.. At least there are lots of guys around :) I heart geeks
- leogodin217, on 10/12/2007, -8/+25I work in the IT department of a large company. At this company I work with some women. Almost all came in with CS or IT degrees and migrated to some sort of business role. Almost all of them have no interest in technology. They don't install Linux at home. They don't program for fun. I truly believe that most women and not interested in technology. Some are but most are not. That is the reason why not many are getting CS degrees. This is a non issue. Why not let each person decide what he/she wants to do and support them in the choice they make rather than try to increase percentages of women in certain fields.
- mmmkatrina, on 10/12/2007, -4/+211. I am a girl.
2. I am a computer major.
3. I like programming and I consider myself pretty good at it.
4. I have social skills.
5. I am the exception.
6. I scare people away when I tell them what my major is. No, seriously. Sometimes, people don't even believe me. I'll be honest with you all, that's probably a big part of the problem. Perception counts for a pretty decent amount to most women. - erinspice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16I like telling people that I'm a computer scientist. I can see it swirling around in their heads: "...but you're... female! ...and normal!" I run 2 personal linux boxes, 2 mythtv boxes, an SVN server, an Asterisk box, and 5 full-time webservers. I wrote and maintain a website that gets an average of about 15 million hits per month. People I meet online who discover my occupation before seeing a picture of me are always surprised that I'm skinny and normal-looking. I find it a bit insulting that the majority of people I come in contact with on a daily basis assume that good-looking women are dumb as molasses. I agree with leeesher - I'd also rather be in a field with people who are there because they want to be and are good at it, not people who are only there because they got some sort of incentive to enter the program. Let's not flood the field with people who wouldn't have chosen it themselves. Educate yes, coerce, no.
- bkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16When I was a undergrad, a professor told me that the computer science department was 8% female. The software engineering department at my work is 15% (yes I just busted out the org chart and did the math) So, 28% actually sounds good to me!
- flygirl62, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12@mmmkatrina
Exactly. When I was in college (Electrical/Computer Engineering major), I was one of 2 in a class of about 60 (well, there *were* three but one switched majors when she realized that the guys who did her homework for her couldn't take exams for her). And people always made me say it two or three times when they asked what my major was --- I think they thought that they misheard me or something.
It can be (and was) very annoying to have people inherently assume that you do not have much to contribute to a technical field. Hell, my first few years in work, it was routine to have people start taking over me in a meeting like I wasn't even there (and, yes, I watched and it seldom happened to most of the men).
*sigh* Oh, well... as others have said, if you *like* it, you'll stay in it. I do and I have. - mproberts, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Their approach is to emphasize application by eliminating the emphasis on programming. Other than general programming, computer science is about theory, it is a field which grew out of mathematics and is a pure form. Application is not something that should be a part of computer science, it's not about "designing prosthetics" or "devising new ways to fight forest fires" that is the domain of engineers. Computer scientists are designing the framework to operate in, discovering the mathematical truths about algorithms which can be used in those domains. If you want to take away programming from a computer science curriculum you completely eliminate any ties to application. It may look "geeky" but if you ever want to work on forest fires, you're going to need to know how to program a computer, otherwise you're an applied mathematician.
- bsdfree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11The following is a comment I wrote for a related story several months ago, and I think it applies just as much to this one:
"My question is whether anything will really make a difference. After all, isn't it obvious that men and women are physically different? Well are they psychologically different? Most psychologists would say so, and even common observation would agree. Are they mentally different? I don't know the answer for sure, but it seems likely that they would have different priorities, and many studies agree.
I remember one study of the risk-taking behaviors of men and women. Men were shown to be bigger risk takers - they often chose the path that would give the biggest reward - but also have the greatest potential for failure. Women, on the other hand would usually choose the middle road - the cautious, conservative route. This makes sense, because we often see men in the most successful places, and also the least successful ones. This can readily explain something that feminists have been crying about for close to 30 years - the lack of women in upper management. What they fail to consider is the fact that men typically take more risks than women, and so for every male CEO, there may be 2 or 3 that risked their job for the position but ended up forced to leave the company. Women, the study suggests, would be more content in their original place and so wouldn't go out of the way to try to snatch the position.
I remember seeing an issue of Time a while back where the cover story was how the brains of men and women (and by extension boys and girls - the two sexes are certainly different even from the womb) were very different. Men showed greater excitement and stimulation when exposed to some things, whereas women showed more when exposed to others. This also makes sense, because I'm sure if you showed gave a little boy a baby doll, in any culture, just naturally and genetically, he would care less for it than a little girl. It's a lot about what's hardwired into our brains before we are even born - the maternal, conservative, and caring instincts that we associate with mothers, and the exploratory, risk-taking, and brash traits that we often associate with men.
So this brings me to my main point. Men and women, boys and girls are different. It's a fact of life and it's not something to get too riled up about. Denying it is just as silly as protesting and denying the physical differences between the two genders. So stop trying to change society or create special programs for girls or boys to try to push them into an area they don't find interesting. It is not at all abandoning half of the population as the women in the article said. Let them pursue areas that they themselves find interesting - if it means baking cookies, writing poetry, caring for kids, or rocket science, so be it. It's not like they have significant discrimination against them these days, although many feminists would like you to believe that. If it just so happens that we as humans have evolved so that men like science and math more, then so be it.
You don't have to take my word on these studies. A quick google will reveal a multitude of studies about men and women, and the fact that girls not only have more opportunities than boys at school, they are, as far as performance is concerned, moving far past them. Even so, colleges tend to favor girls into Math/Science to boys. Even pop culture has made men into the fat, dumb, and headstrong characters, while women have been consistently portrayed as sharp, witty, and just in general, better. Can anyone name a modern TV show where the woman is portrayed as poor and helpless while the man is powerful? I thought not." - flygirl62, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Just had a T-shirt I saw once come to mind... have no idea where the woman wearing it got it.
Over her breasts it said "These are breasts."
Below that it said "This is code" and had some C++ code.
Below that it said "Why do you have a problem grasping that these belong to the same person?"
I doubt I'd wear it, but I laughed at the time. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18At my school, it seems the numbers are more like 5%. And if you don't count the fat girl and the asian, well . . .
- anamanaman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Try India...
- dunctheshort, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Well said! I get the same thing as a woman with a degree in CS. When are people going to realize that studying computer science does not instantly make you a nerd? Props to other women studying CS - keep up the good work!
- CrakrJaky, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13The goal is to try and change how girls and women perceive computer science - which is a big reason why there are so little women in the field. I graduated last year with a BS in computer science and am now in the working world. There were maybe 10 girls in my CS classes of 150-200 students.
I went to the Grace Hopper Women in Computing conference last year (sent by my work) and it was amazing to see so many women in the same field as me there. I don't particularly support that idea that we should push women into science and engineering fields just because there aren't any. However, the reason for lack of a female presence often starts at a very young age (middle school and into high school) where many girls and have an interest in science or engineering but they get put down and made fun of (more so than boys) and end up being driven away from the field. Many young girls learn that it's not the "girly" thing to do. Many also don't realize that you can do more than just programing in Computer Science.
"The big problems, these and other experts say, are prevailing images of what computer science is and who can do it."
“...'they get the wrong idea in high school and we never see them to correct the misperception.'”
Luckily there are programs for young girls that engage them in what they are most interested (when I was young there was Brighter Horizons which focused on math and science) and now Sally Field runs programs to engage young girls in sciences. - leeesher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@ zatrix
I hope you're 15. - puffinkiss, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17The idea behind the article isn't to herd women into CS for the sake of diversity, but to open the field to a broader audience as something necessary and monumental because the perceived exclusivity and narrow niche of CS is what the article says will kill it. I took AP CS in high school and the fact that we did nothing but java programming turned me off of CS completely without having the chance to discover the full scope of programming. It's definitely time for an overhaul of the curriculum.
- bondbhai, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Pics or yer not a female Computer Science student.
- UCFMark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Regarding the nerd factor: it is a serious problem. I'm a guy and a CS major. I'm a geek and I am unabashedly unashamed of that fact. I love Star Trek and spend way too much time on my computer. My social skills could use some brushing up.
But compared to a lot of the guys in my classes, I'm really well-adjusted. Even being a geek and understanding most of what they're talking about, I can't stand them. It's awful- their conversations almost make me want to strangle them. They give Computer Science majors a bad name, but unfortunately they are probably in the majority. - wildfire, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12It may add new insight and dimension to the field of study. Women tend to think holistically, and thus, offer the benefit of diverse and creative thought to computer science which would otherwise be narrow-focused and diluted of similar thought processes.
More people, male -- and especially female -- may change computer science for the better; hell, it wouldn't hurt to at least try a different approach now and then. - geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8as a CMU cs alum, I no longer consider the CMU cs program special and no longer actively hire CMU grads. When I was there it was filled with hackers, nerds who roomed together to form large self-sustaining unix networks, and this was freshman year. I've followed this change in admissions policy for years and now a few people have decided that these people were too antisocial so they changed admission requirements. I don't agree with this change at all and I've changed my hiring practices accordingly. So for me CMU's pioneering hasn't worked. OS course is easier too. Too easy.
- cybersamurai, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13buried as innacurate: all the CS women in the picture are good looking
- SillyRabbits, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10These types of programs are a waste of resources. The retention rates for people attracted this way are horrible. I've lost count of the old classmates, with engineering degrees, who now sell real-estate, insurance, are firefighters, paramedics, own restaurants, dive businesses, etc. For most of them it was obvious that they weren't meant to be engineers from the start and they were only doing it because they were pushed down that path - they didn't enjoy it. It's too bad, because they took seats away from other students that actually enjoyed engineering and would have stuck with it afterwards. The job of technical programs isn't to turn out people with degrees, it's to turn out engineers/scientists that are actually going to work in the field.
- tdk2fe, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11FTA:
"This image [software development] discourages members of both sexes, but the problem seems to be more prevalent among women. “They think of it as programming,” "
WTF!? Haven't we been seeing a trend lately from recruiters that a big problem with CS majors is that they can't program - and now these people want to move away from programming as a central aspect of CS in the name of gender equality? Jesus ***** christ. If your a chick in engineering your already getting a lot of handouts - do we really have to redesign the entire focus of computer science so girls think it will be more glamorous? give me a ***** break. - AriaStar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+828% seems like a high estimate.
And how to get women into the industry? Take us seriously. Quit it with the, "OMG, a girl?! You must be lying!" *****. Quit trying to test us by talking tech to see if we can keep up. Stop asking is we prefer Python or Perl. Saying that girls in tech must be lesbian or butch don't help either.***** like that. I work for a great company and don't get *****, but a lot of women wanting to go in are discouraged by the general treatment and attitude that women are inferior with technology. - biochem, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11This is a stupid article. It says if girls leave a subject so will guys. That is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. Guys and girls are inherently different. We think different and act different. If girls leave computer science it doesnt mean guys will. I am fairly sure guys have been the dominant sex in engineering forever. The lack of girls in the field doesnt mean guys will end up leaving that field. Overhauling the program is ok, but dont do it to attract girls. Do it because it will help students better understand the field in general.
With that being said, im all for more girls who want to study those fields. - SharkyTech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6How about putting this money towards the people who are the most interested and academically adept for computer science, regardless of gender?
- WileEPeyote, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Yeah, not everyone that works with computers wants Linux. I used to install a new distro once a year or so, just to see where it was but now I just don't have the time to mess with it.
I have only worked with 1 woman (back in the .com boom) who really shouldn't have been involved in CS. The group of women Ihave worked with since have all been "into" computers.
We need people of all backgrounds in the Computer industry in general. The more diverse the set of brains working on a problem the more likely you are to come up with creative solutions. The hiring practices where I work are in line with this.
Just my 2 pennies. - babakm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+728%! Wow that's much improved from when I went to college (I learned to program on cards). One girl in the whole computer science department and she never had to do any of her own programming with so many horny nerds around.
- tdk2fe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@mproberts:
While I agree with you that computer science in its true form is something insanely different than the common perception, it is that very perception that people both enter and get hired from this field. Go to any career fair at a university and talk to the recruiters hiring CS majors about the type of work an entry-level CS major would be doing. More than 90% are going to ask you about which language you know (C++ or Java), whether you know any SQL, and to tell them about your capstone project where you had to implement some function to your ideas. - DeusNova, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I want a CS girlfriend. =(
- deehan, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13Maybe they felt the needed to exit, feeling more comfortable in a less male dominated field. Installing Linux is hardly a defining factor for an interest in computer science. I know a lot of boys who don't even know that linux is.
- Ragnar0k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Ah, the scaring.
Why is it that girls are so scared of girls with different interests. My current girlfriend is the geeky type, built her own computer, learning around linux etc etc, and although she's not looking to take CS next year, she is likely going into electronic engineering, which is equally of geek value. The thing is, people are physically scared of her, afraid even. I just can't figure out why. The very idea of someone having different interests seems to drive other girls into cowering. Whereas as a guy, all I get is disgust and resentment from the average male crowd. In the end, fear might be the better option. What I find funny most of all is that I can go out and have fun with people, indulging into a number of other interests, like going to concerts, but as soon as they discover you can program or build a tesla coil, they instantly retract all previous feelings and replace them with stock stereotypes.
As for the discrimination at your meetings, I can see how this would develop. A lot of male "computer intensive" people are generally anti-social. Not just introvert, but, outgoingly antisocial. Generally based on the "leetkidz" attitude thinking they're superior because they can program a few simple things, or even change their desktop resolution. (For the record, this was referred to by him as, "Hacking his screen". Man, I almost had a fit!) Egos seem to always be large in the land of computers, and I don't quite know why, it could be the constant stroking. Anyone good with computers is often referred to as a "genious" and often always called upon. Couple this with likely failings in over areas (overweight, image, etc etc) and you have a fairly fractured psyche. The other likelihood I find is the overly nice computer guy. Very very meek, always polite, would never harm you, and once you get to know these people, very good friends. There are those within the healthy middle, but, unfortunately they don't seem to be as common as they should be.
Oh well, I'd forever rather be a lonely geek than a popular idiot.
``Rag (Studying theoretical physics next year. Go figure.) - erinspice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Per the caption - the girls in the picture are not CS majors - they are prospective students whom the computer science department is trying to coerce to choose CS as a major.
- tempest1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+528%%!?!?!
There's been ZERO women at my schools last computer meetings... - djnick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5women dont wanna be in a field with underpaid, undersexed, and overweight men
/thread - seanmc303, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8stuartjmoore is right. Men have and most likely will always geek out more than the ladies when it comes to nerdy tech stuff. It is just a fact of life. Men and women have different interests.
- Awap, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@stuartjmoore: It's not diversity for diversities sake. It's the idea that there is probably a lot of latent talent out there that is never exposed because of young women's misunderstandings about what computer science is. Pre-conceived notions, as well as the introductory courses in most curriculums, tend to turn off many people. Also, there is no reason to believe that someone "wooed" into the field will not end up being just as engaged and talented as many of the guys who started with an idea like "I enjoy video games so I will major in computer science."
-
Show 51 - 100 of 135 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is