What is Digg?67 Comments
- molecule, on 10/12/2007, -5/+29@Himself
"tips for battery longevity liberalist style: use it less"
wouldn't that be CONSERVative? - STDOUBT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19More in-depth tips --less advertizing:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ - LonnyQ, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18There is no mention anywhere in this article about how to revive a dead battery, as the headline suggests. Good tips, Bad Headline.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19@Himself
Way to try and turn an article about batteries into a politcal debate.
Can't you stop cramming your ideology down our throats for just five seconds? - Himself, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8you've been victimized by roaming DiggRuffians
you need to join the secret club. today's password is hornswoggle - falloutsyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Is there a trick to bring back the ones that shot out flames? Do tell!
- dominerdtrix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Having just awoken, I first read the title as "Tips for better longevity and reviving dead loved ones."
0_o - wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@ Himself - Once again proving that there is no limit to stupid comments while abusing the right to free speech.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Summary is incorrect. The article doesn't state how to revive dead batteries, only try to keep them from becoming dead. This is fine because there is no way to revive dead LIon capacity anyway. (There were a few tricks for NiCd though)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Pah, I wish. Wait, did you say Snakes....!!!
- losboccacc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4just another uninformative rumor supported fud
check out this if really interested in something that is not lableled NY Advertisement:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/
it has *cough*explanations*cough* - rockets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4There's no "reviving the dead batteries" in that article !
- mindseye1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Hey, where's the "revive dead ones" section of this article? Did I completely miss this part, cause I'd really like to know how to do this!
- Ludwig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Am I the only one annoyed by the magnified battery icon having squared (pixeled) corners, but with rounded edges?
- ZapWizard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4An analogy I once used that seemed to be easy enough for non-techies to understand:
Batteries are just like jars of Honey, if you don't use them they will crystalize on you.
The tips above are good, but http://www.batteryuniversity.com/ seems to have better info. - JAKN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3yes, and making solar panels IS environmentally destructive...
- ldykillr75, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8The batteries are just like computer chips they need the smoke kept inside to work effectively, you would have to find someone who can replace the smoke.
- UltraNurd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Damn. I thought this was finally going to be a digg for necromancy.
- AMCer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"The batteries are just like computer chips they need the smoke kept inside to work effectively, you would have to find someone who can replace the smoke."
If your batteries are British, this Lucas Smoke might work: http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm - XStatic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Solar generation of electricity is one technology that relies on battery power to concentrate and regulate the power.
Small solar devices such as watches an calculators can use capacitors but most every solar implementation requires a battery to store the energy. - HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2LIons are complex beasts.
Here's the short version:
Charging a LIon damages it a bit in the process, and thus reduces capacity.
Thus, to maximize LIon life, don't charge it. But since discharging it means you have to put charge in before it is useful again, that means the only way to prolong LIon life is to use it as rarely as possible.
Other than that, the only real tip is LIons do not like to be charged when it is hot or cold. If charging a LIon takes away 0.03% of its capacity, then charging it while it is hot takes away 0.5%. I don't remember of charging it when it is cold damages it a lot more, but I do remember it just plain doesn't work. LIons basically become un-batteries at low temps, so they won't accept or produce charge.
As to the longer term, a LIon is happiest when it is about 60% full. If it has more than that it will self-discharge (without damage) a bit faster than if it has less.
You shouldn't charge a LIon all the time because as I said above, charging damages them. But virtually all LIon chargers will turn off the charger if you leave the power attached. They do this to prevent the damage that would come from constant charging. But also, since a LIon will charge to 80% capacity in the first hour (given proper charging current) and take two hours to put the last 20% in, if you want to minimize the time your battery is kept on the charger, then yeah, probably you do best to use it from 80% charge to 0% and recharge it to 80% over and over instead of going to full each time. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I wondered what you were talking about, so went back to the article and looked. And yes, it annoys me a great deal too :-(
- heptahedron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Although removing the battery from the laptop when hooked to the power cord may maximize battery life, it does make the machine susceptible to power interruptions. Given how people handle laptops, it not hard for the power connection to get pulled out or jiggled.
Because power-loss equals data-loss and the potential for a corrupted filesystem, I leave batteries in the machine as relatively inexpensive insurance against power outages and accidently cord pulls. In 6 years of this practice, I've not had problems with battery life-span or capacity -- my LiIon batteries seem to last well past the 2-3 year life-span cited in the article. YMMV - Narpas, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Snakes in a battery!
- SweetsGreen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I guy that worked for Bell Atlantic/Verizon once told me that you could reverse memory effects on NiCd and NiMH by putting them in the Microwave for a second or 2.
Anyone every try this...I would, but I got a thing about getting blown up. - maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I agree with the article that constantly keeping a battery charged will wear down it's life, this is why we need to "calibrate" a battery every so often, once a month maybe.
Otherwise, rechargeable batteries are rated in cycles, *charging cycles*.
If a battery is rated at a 100 let say though none are, then i can recharge it from discharged 100 times. By this time the battery will cease useful function.
If i only use half the battery, that's half a cycle, i can do this 200 times on that battery. Etc etc etc. On HP machines, at least mine anyway, my laptop recharges the battery only when it's listed at 95%, so it lets the battery naturally discharge before recharging it and doesn't draw a constant charge current.
This is how i saw it explained in a presentation, and this is how my last battery, (the one i killed) behaved. I wasted all my "cycles" in my first 13 months, and then battery wouldn't hold a charge for more than 20 min.
To me it seems like this article could have more info. - dominerdtrix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1*misread, rather. 0____o
- claar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've always heard that you were supposed to "charge early, charge often" with lithium ion batteries, which is supported by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery (your trust of wikipedia knowledge may vary), but the article claims you shouldn't keep a laptop battery at full charge, and even suggests alternating battery and line-power.
So which is it? - SpeckledJim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So I'm not the only one who missed the key word "batteries" when first reading the headline.
- decemberfall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@STDOUBT
Thanks, that was the website I had been looking for, my friend sent it to me when I got my laptop and I had lost track of it! - rkenward, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6hmm... this is something that bugs me about digg, i posted the same article yesterday long before this one and not a single digg. you have to be in the top 100 to have anything make it to the home page. http://digg.com/gadgets/About_Batteries_Tips_on_Longevity_and_Reviving_the_Dead
- maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Batteries discharge naturally though LI batteries much less then their brothers. Also, because the switch to disconnect the battery would defeat the purpose of having a battery in an emergency situation, like a power outage.
- trancelgic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Great article, I especially enjoyed learning how to revive a dead battery.
Oh, that's right, it didn't mention anything about that. Nice.
The person that invents a way to bring a dead battery back from the dead will be a rich one. - cheddarlump, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I read it the same way. *sigh*. I need more coffee.
- AMCer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2There. I dugg it for you.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks. - maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Wrong. If the battery is not completely new it will start charging again when you turn the laptop on again after it has been off overnight..."
Wrong, depending on manufacturer, HP laptops do not charge the battery until it reaches 95%, even when on constant power.
This confirms your next statement...
"The point is not to avoid depleting the battery by turning it off but to avoid unnecessary repeat charging, which reduces its service life." - Yashu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool."
The rule I always followed, was the higher the MaH, the less amps I used to charge... the best we used to be able to get was 1700mah sub c cells... There are probably better ones now, but with the 1700 I would never use more then 4 amps... with 1500s I would crank it to 6 amps, and even more for 1200s...
They wouldn't last forever, but dumping a battery at 30 or more amps (using resistors, or LOTS of car tail lights in parallel) would breathe a little more life into them. I never had a polarity reversing circuit... I never knew how much it helped or if it helped at all.
I haven't touched the RC stuff in so many (10+) years I'll bet my batteries may not be any good... when they self discharge to a level too low they can reverse polarity, and then charging them can be very dangerous. - trovoltex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree
- Himself, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1166/lessannoyingem2.png
- CyGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0here's a link - http://www.engadget.com/2005/06/28/how-to-rebuild-your-laptop-battery/
you do have to replace all the cells, but you can buy them at generic prices. - Khoji, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Erm, because if the battery is not being used, its charge is not being depleted, so there is really no need to turn it "off.""
Wrong. If the battery is not completely new it will start charging again when you turn the laptop on again after it has been off overnight, even if you have not been running on battery at all in the meantime. The point is not to avoid depleting the battery by turning it off but to avoid unnecessary repeat charging, which reduces its service life.
There you go: Now you know. ;)) - trovoltex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Je suis d accord
- halfast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The Intel MacBook Pro handbook that comes with the machine describes the battery "calibration" procedure, it's also posted on David Weiss' blog (http://davidweiss.blogspot.com/2006/03/on-battery-conditioning.html) along with some interesting comments. Batteries seem to be my bain. I'm hoping to have better luck with the MacBook. I have an HP 9010 laptop that, literally, shuts down without warning if you trty to use it while the battery is charging. I've replaced the battery but the problem must be with the internal charger or thermocouples. So I end up charging it up, then unplugging and using it until it dies then..... Oh, well, here's hoping for fuel cells...
- trovoltex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks.
Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks.
Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks.
Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks.Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks.
Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks.
Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks.
Actually, Nicads have fantastic self-discharge. Only lead acid is better.
LIons will self discharge in 2-3 months.. NiMH will self discharge almost completely in 1 month. NiCDs would self discharge over about 3 months. Lead acid will keep about 70% charge after a year (but will likely lose the extra capacity permanently, keep your Pbs charged!).
I still use NiCds. I use them in my RC car, where I have all the discharging stuff, a reflex charger (the semi-reversing charger you speak of, I always called it burp charging) which doubles as a peak charger.
Honestly, I always thought NiCds are ideal. I can charge them at 5C and discharge them at 20C without damage as long as you keep them cool. I never had memory problems, but when you discharge a battery and charge it so fast and so often, it doesn't have a chance of developing memory.
My cordless drill has NiCds too, which is great. When I pick it up, it always has some charge in it. If you have a NiMH version (as they switched to about 3 years ago), if you put it away for a month and bring it out, you have to charge it before using it because it has self-discharged. I had the same problem with my Gameboy Advance (pre-SP). I used rechargeable NiMHs in it, and I'd leave it in my backpack for when I'm bored. But if I didn't take it out and charge it every 3 weeks, I'd be lucky to have any playtime available when I pulled it out. With the LIon-based SP, it's good for over six weeks. - Himself, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3clearly you need alternating strategies!
- pauldonnelly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Everything I've seen warns against fully discharging Li-ion batteries.
- pauldonnelly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Because this would be useless. Laptops already "switch them off."
- CyGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I remember reading that re-manufacturing them yourself isn't all that hard. And that as its typically only one or two of the six or eight cells that go bad, you can take like four dead batteries and potentially get three working batteries.
Don't have a link though. I too am pissed that the NYT article got away with that teaser, and that ppl here at digg voted the article up with an inaccurate write-up. -
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