What is Digg?104 Comments
- WarpFox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+48Now i'm going to skip more of them, in fact i may go back and skip over one several times, just to piss them off
- OverThere, on 10/12/2007, -5/+39I have no problem if they sell my user data, as long as I get something in return.
For instance, if they make millions selling trend data collected off your their users, get rid of the monthly subscription fee (or at least lower it). - michaelb1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24Am I the only one that WANTS TIVO to tell advertisers and TV executives what I am watching?
I want them to know so that they will put on more good shows like Lost, BattleStar Galactica, Heroes, The Office, Shark Week, MythBusters, 30 Rock, Iron Chef, History Channel, Nat. Geographic Channel etc.
Maybe they will also notice this 30+ year old, white, college educated male, w/kids, and $X income tend to never ever watch "E" channel, Fox, soap Opera TV channel, MTV etc - g3buz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19this is the single dumbest, most alarmist piece of crap i've seen on digg. Tivo has been tracking and selling anonymous user info since they sold their first box nearly 10 years ago, and they've never made it a secret. but if you write the article and the digg headline like they're doing something new?!?!? or wrong?!?!? oh noes, call the privacy police, bud lite knows that somebody in my age demographic doesn't like their commercials.
- rarkai, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Good, maybe that way they will see how annoying they are.
- disillusioned, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15It's long been known that TiVo tracks every single button click on their service. How do you think they were able to tell so many people watched the Janet Jackson slip over and over and over?
Moreover, they even track your tv controls. Try it: press volume up. The remote will send two signals: One to the TV to change the volume, and one, when you release, to the TiVo. (You'll see the yellow light on the TiVo indicate it's received a signal, and the remote will light up briefly again.)
All TV commands are transmitted to the TiVo, and if you've ever activated the backdoor settings on TiVo, you can see that every single keystroke is tracked, but moreover that they know your cursor position and time spent on every. single. screen. It's able to track to the tenth of a second how long you've spent on the Now Playing screen, if you used the channel down button to page down, or the arrow keys, or the number keys. It's able to tell if you liked things sorted, or browsed around a lot. It's the ultimate usability study, and it has been ever since the Series 1 box came out. You can always opt-out of the information sharing, phone home elements. But it's anonymous data. They're not selling *your* data. No one knows its yours. They're selling a giant swath of it. It doesn't necessarily make it awesomehappytimes, but I'm not about to freak out about someone knowing I watch The Office.
And you know what? If it means my shows get to survive longer, because I'm now participating in a Nielsen-like rating program, even better. (I'm not saying that data's used like that, just saying.)
I've long said that it'd be great if they sold the data in exchange for free TiVo service, but unfortunately, the company isn't in a position where they can afford that. Opt out if you hate the idea of your data being 1 in 10 million so much. We'll really miss knowing what porn you watch. Or, worse, Lifetime. (Or, rather that *someone* is watching porn/Lifetime.) - 8177, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20If it will allow advertisers to realise what commercials i skip, then forces them to make commercials i like. I dont see the problem.
except of course the obvious privacy protection. - haggie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I see you baby, skippin' that ad, skippin' that ad!
- jcapogna, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21Yah, shame on companies for trying to make a profit.
- LogicBomB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Datamining is HUGE in marketing - everyone wants to know more about your habbits in every industry. This is why you are asked to register your software, do surveys for a chance to win, give your postal code when you buy electronics, and why you have a file almost everywhere you go.
This information is not (usually) about how John Smith who lives at 123 sumertime drive has a problem with commercials. It's about how 78% of people between the ages of 18 and 24 living in Miami, Florida skip commercials compared to 65% of people in that same age range living in Los Angeles, California.
I am a 3-year Business Admin - Marketing grad and believe me, this information is HUGE for companies. It's less a matter of personal privacy (since they don't care about YOU) and more a matter of demographics and how it effects the services they offer. This is not industry specific. Wal-Mart is probably the best example of data-mining every purchase that goes through their store. They keep stats on literally EVERYTHING. - Konrad9, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20Yeah, because broadband is *so* cheap after those hundreds of millions of dollars the gov't gave the cable companies to build better infrastructure.
And BF2142 expansions are cheaper because of in game advertising...
"It'll be cheaper after we charge you more money!" Nope : |
Stab Tivo in the FACE.
With bullets. - FunkyWitDaSysTm, on 10/12/2007, -12/+22as far as i'm concerned, it's crap like this that makes it ok to pirate.
- Arainach, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I don't mind trying to make a profit. I DO mind having the commercials be several orders of magnitude louder than the actual shows, forcing me to constantly dash for the volume controls every time the show goes to commercial (which is a lot, since there's maybe 20 minutes of content in most hour-long shows nowadays)
- ThatsUnpossible, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Uhh, you already get something in return, it's called the TiVo and the monthly TiVo service. In exchange you buy their unit, pay them a monthly fee, and agree to let them collect and use AGGREGATE data.
How exactly is this harming you in any way? Are you afraid the advertisers might come up with an advertisement you'll actually want to watch? Oh, the horror.
Also, this news is about 5 years old. I remember when TiVo first came out, and they would tell everyone what the most re-watched superbowl ads were. And there was a big hubalaboo back then about it. And then most sane people realized what aggregate data is and why it isn't a privacy issue. - openbah, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9TiVo should ask their customers if they want to anonymously opt-in to their data collection.
- HaltingPoint, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8While I agree it should be opt-in when you first setup your system, it is already anonymous so the story blurb is nothing but fear-mongering. I really don't see what everybody objects to. This lets advertisers know what you like to watch and what you don't. How is them making better ads as a result a bad thing?
The one potential problem I see with this is that they are using my information (albeit anonymously) for profit without passing anything on to me. Although one could argue there is intangible value being passed along in the form of better ads and shows down the line and the fact that this would help TiVo stay in business. Of course I download torrents of all my shows so this doesn't affect me at all.
I'm kind of surprised TiVo doesn't go a step further and provide a system allowing users to rate the commercials and shows. Kind of like a Digg for TV. - MattS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7TiVo is watching me skip ads? I'm shocked! In other words, DUH!
OK - now digg me down. - crawfishsoul, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I can not believe that at least two people thought I was serious about Tivo for books. I mean, TIVO for _books_!?!?!?! How ridiculous of a statement do you have to make these days for it to be obvious that you are being sarcastic.
- HotSlag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5TiVo for radio is what I really want.
7 second back, 30 second forward skips. I would use that all the time. - prockcore, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"How else do you think they get their usage stats?"
With Nielsen polling. They pick random families and have them fill out grids on what they watch. The problem is that the only people who would volunteer to do the crapton of paperwork that being a Nielsen family requires are old lonely people.
TiVo polling can be much more accurate than Nielsen polling could ever be. - tfarrenkopf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If what television shows you watch is considered sensitive information, then what do you consider my credit card information to be?
- brettmeister, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6This is not new. Remember three years ago during the super bowl, TiVo told us that the Janet Jackson incident was the most replayed bit ever?
They have been monitoring us for awhile. - DDRRE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@arainach
Amen to that!
I hate it when commercials are 10 times louder than the shows. Governments should force TV stations to install compressors & normalizers to keep everything in the same volume, like radio stations use. - crawfishsoul, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Do they have Tivo for books? Cause that would be swell.
- daborg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Exactly. I don't really see what the big deal is here. Sounds fine to me. Maybe now they'll stop making the 99% of commercials out there which SUCK and make more of the 1% which are good. :-P
- Denver80203, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4'For instance, if they make millions selling trend data collected off your their users, get rid of the monthly subscription fee'
They don't.
They are in the red or close to it.
The argument doesn't hold a lot of water anyway. Do you expect cable/satellite to be free because they put ads on the show? You're paying for a service. They clearly state in the contract that they sell viewing statistics. They don't sell anything with your name on it.
If it means more stuff that I like from the data they collect from me.. more power to them. - FishyJoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I want advertisers and programmers to know what I'm watching and not watching. I never liked the Nielsen ratings because they bias towards certain demographics.
- JD52, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5They are collecting data to support their new programming protocol.
It will be called FU View. Here is how this exciting new technology works.
For every minute of actual programming you watch you will be required to watch thirty seconds of advertisements. Now you can go ahead and watch all your monthly allotted programming minutes together however at the end of the month you will be required to watch the balance of your advertising minutes before you are awarded anymore programming minutes. Your Tivo will only show commercials till the balance is paid.
Your all laughing but...... this is the way they would prefer to have it. - Bean945, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It is quite possible that he is not American and hence does not know what TiVo is, I am a Brit and did not have a clue about it until it was in an episode of Family Guy, he more that likey does know what DVR is, but I do not think Tivo is sold anywhere but America....
- bightchee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If that was the sort of information that TiVo was collecting and selling I would not have any objection. I imagine a channel would want to see how their shows are received among the TiVo users based on an average of thumbs down/ thumbs up.
- bightchee, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Every time I press the thumbs-down button 70 times for a David Spade movie I hope they register each button push. When I give Venture Bros three thumbs up and Squid Billies three down I hope they notice. It's this sort of feedback I want them to pay attention to.
- Frophauser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What the hell do I care if they know I skip the ads? They should've known goddamn well when they were putting the "fast-forward" button on the remote what it was going to be used for. Am I supposed to be ashamed or something?
- bitmanx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You don't need this wisdom to know commercials are annoying but more important is the number of commercials you have to be tortured with for shows. If a shows total running time is 10 minutes don't fill it with 20 minutes of commercials.. duh.. Most of this information is similar to what they know about you visiting websites so behavior tracking is something that won't go away anytime soon.
Tivo sucks anyways, it's outdated and and the lack of openness has basically sent them down a dead end road. They should give you the option to completely skip all commercials or at least not record them in your tivo recorded show.. - saegiru, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Who cares? Unless you are scared of people finding out you might like a Snickers bar or that you are pausing a little too long on the Victoria's secret commercials. If you don't like TiVo, don't buy it, use a crappy cable DVR or something (which will have the same 'problems', or worse) or build your own HTPC or something.
- XStatic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Nothing new, they even post the Superbowl ad data publicly every year
www.tivo.com/biggame - ShBm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't understand why people get worked up about this stuff. I don't give a ***** if they see what shows I watch. If they know I skip ads then *****' fine. It's not like they can do anything about it. The only reason I would be against this was if the TV was accidentally on Gilmore girls or some *****, and they told a bunch of people I watched it.
- haggie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I have a PVR that cost a fraction of Tivo, has more storage, handles all my media, and has a third-party plug-in that automatically detects and skips commercials without having to press a single button, and has enough cycles left over to act as a email and proxy server.
Tivo is the iPod of PVRs. It is crippleware for idiots. - clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5They already know what you watch. Just by using a basic cable tv tuner, the cable company can tell what channel you are tuned to and when. They have been compiling this data for years. It's really easy to monitor the signal change when you change channels.
How else do you think they get their usage stats? They don't call everyone and ask them what they watched today.
This is just what people skip over if given the choice....and what they don't. Obviously if you are tuned in from 8pm - 8.30pm on one channel, you are watching the show, you like it. But they don't know what ad's get your attention, what ones you'd skip if you could and most importantly, what ones you don't mind or even like watching. That's advertising GOLD right there. - haggie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Sage TV (http://www.sagetv.com $79.95) on a P4 in an AT case with larger fans with about 800GB on three drives (I already had this sitting in a corner) with a Hauppage dual tuner card (PVR 500 $175 w/remote).
So, less than $300. No monthly fees, nobody collecting data, and Sage supports third-party developers that have built all kinds of cool add-ons (commercial skip, DVD rip/playback, weather, email, caller ID, etc...) - mbeckfl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why would I care - I invite them to come in and watch my viewing habits, store them and use them to make better programming. It's not like there's any XXXX shows that I don't' want anyone to know off on cable - that's what the internet is for :-)
If it reduces the stupid ads, give me a separate remote with thumbs up / down buttons to vote.... - Jrr6415sun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"They already know what you watch. Just by using a basic cable tv tuner, the cable company can tell what channel you are tuned to and when. They have been compiling this data for years. It's really easy to monitor the signal change when you change channels.
How else do you think they get their usage stats? They don't call everyone and ask them what they watched today.
This is just what people skip over if given the choice....and what they don't. Obviously if you are tuned in from 8pm - 8.30pm on one channel, you are watching the show, you like it. But they don't know what ad's get your attention, what ones you'd skip if you could and most importantly, what ones you don't mind or even like watching. That's advertising GOLD right there."
wow... you know nothing about TV or cable - diggtomanjeri, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2TiVo's been doing this from their inception and it's in the contract you agree to when you purchase their lifetime or yearly service. They do so they don't collect personal info (i.e. what YOU are watching) just the viewing information, take all that with a grain of salt though there are federal laws to prevent them from saying one thing and doing another. But the amount of program information TiVo can collect and the accuracy of that information is ideal of networks and programmers to offer better television. I'm all for it.
- PatrickDonohue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2But is anyone really surprised by this news? I think the reality of the situation is that when you use services like these, it reveals something very clear about what you watch and what you're interested in. And that's information that advertisers are very interested in. As long as there's information that better predicts what you're going to want to buy, there will be people willing to pay huge sums of money to obtain that information.
- ubuwalker31, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I care. I don't use TiVo or the the cable companies DVR, anymore than I would use a private companies VCR. I want complete and total control over my entertainment experience, which is why I have a PVR card for my computer. That being said, I have friends and relatives who have corporate dvrs and TiVos and I am sure that they don't appreciate statistics being mined about their viewing habits, especially when there is the potential for those statistics to be used against them.
- dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Indeed. And I don't think that was the first time it was made public, only the most visible one.
- sparkie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I fail to see how TiVo monitoring what I watch constitutes a privacy issue. Frankly ... I wish they would sell what I watch to the networks that I watch TV on, so that I may receive more "quality" (and i use that term very loosely) programming. That's why I signed up for the nielsen crap when TiVo offered me the opportunity. I don't care if they see my kid watches 2 hours of PBS Kid's Sprout, and then I immediately flip over to Smallville (yea .. it's so lame I can't help but watch.)
Maybe if they started selling my viewing habits they'd see that reality is useless and would take it off the air. - TM0n3y, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This isn't really news. Years ago when Janet's "wardrobe malfunction" happened, TIVO gave the exact number of people that rewound it and that the average was 4 times rewound. That's when they first widely revealed their surveillance.
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1OOOooo, I'm opting in. Tivo, here is all the information you could want on which commercials I skip.... ALL!
- saegiru, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Smallville isn't lame... all I have to say is Allison Mack.
- saegiru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How would it be used against them? Sending ads targeted at things they might like rather than things they don't... OH NO!!! I would much rather see ads for products that interest me, rather than ads for things that I will never use. I love how everyone equates knowing a few preferences wi4th "big brother"-esque surveillance... it really gets ridiculous. Like I said, if you have a problem with TiVo doing this, then don't get one... build your own DVR and be done with it. I personally have a TiVo, and have no problem with it. If I DID have a problem with the way they did business... I would *GASP* stop doing business with them! What a novel concept.
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