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91 Comments
- DVRDude, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23In my region, Comcast charges $10/mo for a dual tuning HD DVR - no extra fees. It's no TiVo, but it's also not $800 upfront plus higher monthly fees than Comcast. TiVo trying to strong-arm customers into a three year commitment on a standard def DVR is just mean.
- DavisFreeberg, on 10/12/2007, -9/+21I'm not sure that I fully understand this. What was the rate before? It seems like they aren't raising the rate as much as requiring a longer time committment. Maybe I'm missing something though.
I think that you're wrong about TiVo pricing themselves out of the market. Take a closer look at the cable pricing plans and how they define a DVR. It's an upgrade ON TOP OF other charges not a single fee. Compare apples to apples and you'll see that even at $19.99 TiVo would still be a cheaper alternative.
When Comcast installed their service I snagged a price sheet. According to the pricing sheet, they charge $4 for the digital converter (aka set top box) + $9.95 for DVR functionality + $6.95 Digital programming access free (required if you use their DVR) + to top it all off, .20 cents for the remote control. In total it will cost you $21.10 per month to get a Comcast DVR. These are all charges you don't pay if you own a SD TiVo.
If you get HDTV you have to pay an extra $5 per month on top of that. With my S3 I pay $1.50 per month for two cable cards, so I save an additional $3.50 per month there. If TiVo ever tried to bill their boxes as 3 seperate items people would be outraged, yet everyone seems to feel it's OK to only quote the $9.95 price for a cable DVR even though you have to rent it as an upgrade to the digital converter and set top box fees.
The $800 up front charge for the series 3 is another animal, but I don't mind spending that to get a premium DVR experience. It's easy for the cable pricing to get confusing, but it doesn't seem fair to suggest that the monthly fees on cable are cheaper, when you don't do an apples to apples comparrison on what it really costs. The $9.95 DVR fee doesn't exist in a vacuum because TiVo can replace the set top box fees, those charges should be considered as well. - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14My DirecTivo is an extra $4.99 per month on top of my regular bill, and I got the Philips DSR-704 box for only $50. I bought an extra 120 gig drive on sale at Best Buy for $50 and blessed it, and I am golden.
Worth EVERY penny. - mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12The Comcast DVR software also sucks ass. TiVo has the best UI I've ever seen on a consumer electronics device. That said, I wouldn't still be using it if it hadn't called in a couple years ago to cancel and got offered a deal $5.99 or $6.99 can't remember which, per month for as long as I keep my account active. I've got an old Series 1 machine that I would like to upgrade to a Series 2, just for the USB wifi so I can get video off it. VisualHub (Mac app) lets you send video to the TiVo in a "one-click" fashion as well, which sounds very usefull... but, if they won't transfer my discount rate over to a new box, I'm cancelling and building a MythTV box.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14MythTV is the way to go.
- zeeeej, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I think this is the standard TiVo owner experience. It's just a great product. I know how fanboyish this sounds, but I'd give up my microwave before I'd give up my TiVo. That's why it's so frustrating to see these pricing schemes - it seems obvious to many of us that the path to success for the company is to get a zillion boxes out there, but the subscription thing turns away 90% of the people who get interested.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Well, there's still dailymotion.com and bittorrent.
- gzphreak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7... wow ... I pasted the wrong link :/
http://directron.com/desktop.html - LMN8R, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9MythTV, Beyond TV, SageTV - there are so many alternatives with no monthly fee, or any fee at al in Myth's case. Glad I never went with TiVo, that's for sure.
- curtvdh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I have the Comcast HD-DVR (2 of 'em) and it costs about 5 bucks a month rental for each. Problem is that the DVRs suck mightily. Press a button on the remote and the DVR will respond a couple of seconds later - if it feels like it. The interface is a mess. Completely counter-intuitive and ass-backwards. I would dearly love to replace them with a Series 3 HD Tivo - but at $800 a pop, I don't think that's going to happen...
- griz, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12No fee, but a big ugly computer box in your living room.
It just can't match the TiVo Interface. - gzphreak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Big ugly computer box? Only if you build it that way. There are plenty of good looking cases that would stack with your current set top boxes.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2048388,00.asp - StarDal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I have two S2 TiVos at home (One Humax DVD) and was waiting for the inevitable price drop for the S3 as well as for Time Warner to convert me from a dual-system network so I can actually use dual tuners.
In the mean time, I went ahead and got the Time Warner HD DVR. Within a week of getting it, I'm actually thinking about foregoing the price drop and getting an S3 TiVo. Hands down TiVo has the best service and quality with the fact that the TW HD DVRs have such a limited HD space.
I have yet to see cable-company based DVR (since I don't think TiVo software is yet deployed on Comcast) that is more than just a "digital VCR". There are several features that TiVo has over the TW DVR service that makes it unbeatable.
The biggest of this is the "auto clipping" that will give you the chance to at least clip off the first minute of a 9:00 CT show when LOST decides to air for 61 minutes instead of missing it completely (though dual tuners itself would help eliminate some, but not all, of this, but it's not even an option right now as long as I'm on dual-system). Heck, it won't even let me manually delay the start of recording in order to manually clip.
TW DVR service won't let me do something such as "Record any CSI:NY on CBS regardless of time". Stuck to selecting channel/time and saying "weekly" - just like my VCR used to do.
Having to put up with the TW DVR service has actually been the biggest promoter for an S3 - even if it'll take a while for Cable Labs to bless "ToGo". - DVRDude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The pricing was in effect with bundled hardware, now it applies to hand-me-downs, ebays, and Best Buy purchases. The multi-unit service discount is entirely new - used to be $6.95 across the board. No longer. The rates went into effect this month per TiVo.com:
http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp - Denver80203, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5God I love my lifetime membership.
- zeeeej, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@ghzphreak: I was wondering ... but I read the article anyway.
- halik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4IIRC comcast in midwest charged us around $10/mo for the DVR functionality (all inclusive w/2 tuner box)
- zeeeej, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@DVRDude: You are right, and I am an idiot. Mea culpa. And sorry for the "dense" thing. :)
- dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3`What was the rate before?'
When I got my first Tivo, it was $9.95/month/unit. I then got a lifetime subscription for $150, which was well worth it, especially when the rates went up to $13/month. I even got all my money back when I sold the unit :)
Now, I have three DirectTV Tivo units, and I pay $5 for *all three* for Tivo service, plus $5/unit to DirectTV (which I'd have to pay anyways -- that fee is for each receiver, DVR or not.)
DirectTV Tivo is *the* Tivo deal. Not only is it signifigantly cheaper, but you get dual tuners, the units record the DirectTV stream directly so the quality is just as good as if you were watching it live and yet the space needed is still about the 1 GB/hour that the standard Tivo uses for it's lowest quality level.
They arent' selling DirectTV Tivos anymore, but you can still pick them up used and they're well worth it. - Splitt3rxx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7what a rip off, comcast 200gb DVR is $10/month, no extra hardware charge, the DVR has no initial cost, it is like a rental.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I for one am still pissed that DirecTV dropped TiVo for their new ***** DVR people...
S2 units with Multi-Room Viewing FTW! (Of course, you have to hack the boxes to enable it, thanks DirecTV, you jerks.) - DontSayFanboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Here is the case that I went with. Sleek black metal that fits in well with my stereo reciever, PS2, and TV.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products-lc13.htm
It's a little big, but I wanted the expandability options with a full sized ATX motherboard. - DVRDude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3These rates went into effect in November. Look no further than TiVo.com for confirmation:
http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp - hansamurai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I have pretty much the same experience as you. For $10 extra a month, I get a dual HD Tuner DVR from Comcast which at first looked like an awesome deal. Now I would say it was a decent deal, as the UI is horrible, the software itself has some annoying bugs, and their recent firmware update was a big step in the wrong direction. However, it records shows, and that's the real purpose of a DVR, right? I get my Office and Prison Break in HD and I'm happy enough. I am definitely not willing to spend the money for the HD Tivo, no matter how great the UI is, etc.
I'm just trying to convince my wife that downloading episodes using bittorrent is only about a day delay, but she has to have her Lost on Wednesdays... not that we need to record that considering she watches it live, and has no concept of the difference between HD and SD. - ryogahibiki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I paid about $260 for lifetime service for my ReplayTV with the "controversial" commercial auto-skip feature. Best purchase ever...as long as you can service/upgrade the unit yourself.
- NICU, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Time Warner Cable is only charging me $6.95 per month for their DVR service. However their DVR service is full of software bugs that erase shows or record the wrong shows or just lock up the entire DVR box, but it is cheaper as long as you don't plan on watching everything you record.
- sjbdallas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My concern is that Tivo has been suing any company that comes out with a similar offering. DISH recently got hammered for their DVR solution and supposedly was facing having to disable it or pay Tivo a licensing fee. Storing information on a hard drive is nothing new but for some reason Tivo thinks they have a patent on the idea and are winning court cases. So pretty soon, they can charge whatever they want while suing any competitors out of the market.
- stalky14, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While I agree that the Tivo monthly service charge is unreasonable, the cable and satellite DVR charges are even more so, since they offer an interactive program guide service to all box-holding customers already. Furthermore, at least in my case with Cox, the Scientific Atlanta DVR they provide is crap. The software is terrible, lacking any means of 30 second skip or ability to instantaneously play from the beginning an in-progress recording. The UI is also the worst I've seen on any recent TV box. It is definitely not worth the $10 a month they charge to use it. I've been test driving GB-PVR for several weeks now with a Hauppauge PVR-150, and although the picture quality isn't quite as good, the functionality and reliability more than makes up for it. Tivo would be nicer, but not $15 a month nicer.
Anyway, my point is you can't necessarily directly compare a Cable Company DVR with a Tivo, because cable company DVR's can be pretty bottom-of-the-barrel for not much less money. - TheBarge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This article just confuses me. Does this change only apply to new Tivo customers? Or are existing customers going to be required to sign a 1-year contract and pay $19.95/mo? Either way, are they nuts!? $20/mo for the Tivo service is ridiculous. I've been a subscriber for 6 years, but if they are going to require a contract and raise my monthly fee, I'm upgrading my two standalone Tivos to DirecTivos.
- bentl1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1One word answer to Tivo ....... ReplayTV. After having a few Tivo's I was surprised at how poor the things are next to the ReplayTV. Specifically the 5040 or 5080 (or any of the older ones with skipping and sharing). Even the newest Tivo's look crude in comparison. But if HD is the most important issue, then you're out of luck. But if commercial skipping, extreme "hackablility" and over the web "Replay to Replay" sharing is important, ReplayTV is the only answer. Miss a show? .... no prob, go to Poopli and register (it's free) and prepare to be amazed. I describe to novices that Tivo vs. the Replay is much akin to an Instamatic camera to a modern digital SLR. They both have their markets, but only one is really coveted by video enthusiasts. I just wish someone had told me this before I wasted my money on my first Tivo's. Even though I have an AMD box for media, the Replay is just soooo much more convenient. Check Ebay....make SURE it's got a lifetime subscription ... should run around $300. If it's less, beware .... these things don't lose value, even when used. The units hacked with bigger drives run more. This is one those "how did I live without it?" items .... get one and you're hooked, if you watch TV. Check out planetreplay.com if you're interested to get more info. Next to the Slingbox, it's one of the best electronic purchases I've ever made.
- DocNo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@dougmc Unfortunately with DirectTV going to NDS exclusivly for their new PVR's and with DirecTV going to MPEG4 for their satellite streams your DirecTivo's will oneday be obsolete :(
I want an HD Tivo - not prepared to pay $800 for an S3 - would love to get my HD from satellite, but they don't want to give me a choice. So, I'll wait to see what happens with the Comcast/Motoroloa/Tivo deal - TheBarge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@RegisteredUser
"Windows Media Center, Myth TV, Sage, Snapstream.. there are quite a handful of alternatives these days."
This requires you to spend $$$ to build a decent PC with CableCard support unless you want to live on OTA HD channels.
"Even if you don't want to use your computer as a PVR, you can always get a PVR from LG. They have hard disk and DVD-R models that use the Microsoft program guide. And MS doesn't charge money for their guides any more."
Yes but this doesn't have CableCard support and will only work with OTA broadcasts. I dunno about you, or everyone else reading this, but my OTA HD stinks. I can get most of the network channels (CBS stinks in my area so HD is almost not even possible) and that's about it.
Soooo.. you can either build a PC and hope you make it under the $800 mark, or just buy a Tivo Series 3 (or DirecTivo HR10-250 for $200-$300). - DocNo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@djlosch Myth is fine if all you want is Standard Def. As soon as you talk High Def, Myth is out. Myth will more than likely NEVER support Cable Card - so you can kiss any hope of having a homebrew native digital HD PVR goodbye :(
- jgriffin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1TiVo Arrogance. They do not appreciate their customers and we have stopped appreciating them.
We are two time TiVo customers that purchased a Series 1 in 2000 with lifetime service and again purchased a Series 2 in 2005 with lifetime service. The Series 2 box died in 13 months. TiVo said “Sorry but you’re out of warranty. We will send you a replacement for $150. If you want it faster, give us a $300 deposit and we will ship sooner and refund the deposit when we receive your broken unit.” My wife protested and they did us a favor by only charging $80 to replace the box that was a year old and should not have broken. The “advanced ship” was not sent a week after the initial call – why? We called back, they “had no idea why but they are very sorry”. The new box showed up 14 days after the initial call. Four days after installing the new unit, the hard drive died – you have got to be kidding….
I called this time. Same song and dance only we were in luck this time - since it was within the 30-day warranty we only had to put down the $300 to have then send an advance ship to replace the new, um, broken, um, DOA box. I protested strongly. Told them they are not treating their customers well. Told them we were loyal customers, upset at how we’ve already been treated and that it would be reasonable to expect them to take care of this DOA replacement ASAP. They said sorry but there was nothing they could do. Pay for an advance ship or send the box back and they would then send out after they received it. By the way, this was a “supervisor” who was offering up all of this help. I asked to speak with a manager but he informed me there was no one else to speak with – nice.
I seriously question the level of talent this company has in the ranks of management. They are short sighted and totally missing the big picture. Positive service experiences are what will keep a company healthy and prospering. They don’t get it. How about asking for a credit card as collateral instead of charging their customers for the privilege of responsive service? They can put a $300 credit hold on the card to get their security without looking like small minded money grubbers that you should feel good about because they are doing you a favor. Then again, they wouldn’t get the interest float on the bank account if they did that, would they? How about going above and beyond the normal (crappy) protocol after you’ve just delivered a lemon to a customer who has already expressed dissatisfaction with your company? Arrogance!
TiVo has been struggling for a long time and I’ve been a cheerleader, singing their praises to anyone that would listen. Talented engineers, morons in every other department. My view of them has changed 180 degrees. My wife and I are done with them. We’ll use the boxes as long as they shall live since we have already forked out the dollars for lifetime service and a repair of a box that should not have broken. We will NEVER again purchase anything from TiVo and will be more than eager to share our experiences with any that will listen. - jdotter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I guess I need a new cable provider. There is nothing around me that offers HD DVR dual tuner capability for 5 or even 10 a month. I'm not even including the premiums to receive the HD and Digital content.
4.95 Digital Converter rental + 3.00 DVR Functionality + 9.95 for HD converter functionality = 17.95 (no dual tuner options) or 12.95 Tivo subscription + $6 (2.95 per) cable card rental = 18.95 Tivo - HD and dual tuner. I'll take the $1 premium and keep Tivo.
Please be advised I can't even afford digital cable but I like to plan ahead! - duke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1DirecTV screwed up by dropping the DirecTiVo. I loved mine, but it broke. Unlike a stand-alone TiVo, I could record two digital shows at once while watching a third that was already recorded. The stand-alone only has one input from a cable box (even the dual tuner model - ?!?!). So, I figured that if I have to give up TiVo anyway, might as well look around to see if there's anything better.
Goodbye DirecTV, you lost me as an A-list customer solely as a result of your own arrogance and stupidity; Hello FIOS. - ylph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Not to mention that all high def cable set top boxes have to offer a Firewire/IEEE 1394 output for the digital signal by law - if you ask for it. This allows Sage TV to directly capture the HD transport stream from your cable company to your hard drive, without any transcoding or need for any video capture devices or a cable card - just need a firewire port on the PC and a lot of disk space (+ a rental HD STB from the cable company)
And if your cable company does not implement the c5 flag in the broadcast, this is THE way to record/watch HDTV content.
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf
"§ 76.701: (4) Cable operators shall: (i) Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional IEEE 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394 interface or upgrade the customer’s set-top box by download or other means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional." - lament, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1this may have been mentioned, and I've said it before, but if you're paying $12.95/month for Tivo, call them and tell them your cable company has a cheaper deal - and let them offer you $6.95 a month. If they don't, call back and try again. It took me 3 tries, but it worked.
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?catid=18&threadid=387215 - superrcat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How about $800 bucks? That's the price for the only Series 3 DVR they are offering. They do not offer lifetime subscriptions anymore. You _have_ to have a subscription.
http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxdetails.asp?box=series3HDDVR - coreyb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1TiVo has save my life, 13, 15, or 19 bucks a month is more than I want to pay, but to be honest, I am not about to start screaming about it. I will just keep shelling out the clams. As long as I get my DAILY dose of Futurama. I just cannot stay up that late... :
- abagchee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't know about Comcast or cable since I have used Dish Network for quite a while but what you are describing either tells me that cable needs a reality check or your facts are incorrect. I pay a whopping $5 a month for my 100 hour DVR. I must say that I have considered Tivo but it always seemed overpriced and now its downright exorbitant.
And comparing any service with fat pig cable pricing is fooling yourself. I can get the DVR with my 60 Channels + Local for $35 with Dish. Cable would charge me around $75 for that.... - rockingrhino, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you go to the Tivo site, http://www.tivo.com/2.0.boxes.step.1.asp, the latest hardware costs are free, $70, $170, $799. The most expensive unit is for the full blown HDTV box.
- Ingersoll, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You do know those are on DVD right?
- larah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i have the tivo s2 lifetime and the twcnyc hd dvr... havent upgraded to the tivo hd dvr cause its way too much at 799$ and then having to pay extra for the service (or +$199 for special lifetime transfer fee for lifetimers = $998 / 8+ years to even out)... twc offers their hd dvr for $8.95+tax a month more... the big difference btwn twc hd dvr vs tivo hd dvr... i get a built-in tuner so i can watch and record something else... with tivo hd dvr, i need to get a second cable signal... however, tivo's software really rocks... twc has a lot of ground to make up... twc should just license tivo's software like comcast...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=325118
- antdude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I still want a non-subscription based TiVo. I don't mind paying 300 bucks for one with no subscriptions.
- brettotte1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm in Nebraska & the cheapest Time Warner DVR is only another $4.95/mo + tax. I still don't have a DVR cuz now their new guide SUCKS! They took away tons of functionality the old guide had.
- kylebrothert, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I agree with stalky 14. I tried the Comcast DVR in Everett, WA back in 2004. It had software from Microsoft. The UI was extremely clunky. It was very buggy. It crashed every few days. It didn't have 'wishlists', or 30 sec skip. Sometimes a show wouldn't record, and the DVR wouldn't tell me why. I swapped it out, and the second one had the same problems. Needless to say, I went back to Tivo.
And, at least in Everett, Wa; Comcast charged the $10/mo ON TOP of the normal $5/mo cable box fee, for a total of $15/mo. - khyron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I don't watch TV. The wife does, though - but for the cost of a tv tuner card and some free software (freevo) in my existing linux file server I avoid all this monthly BS. If you don't want to pay someone else to do it for you, learn how to do it yourself.
- DRawkus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've also been forced to watch HD-DVR with TIme Warner due to Tivo's ridiculous pricing scheme. Dugg.
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