What is Digg?42 Comments
- NovaBandit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Um. No. You are wrong.
Tivo and ReplayTV were the first two publicly available DVRs on the market. They were both launched at CES in 1999. - NovaBandit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12That's not what is happening in this case. TiVo HAD a patent on the "watch one show while recording another" technology. In fact, they are the company that really pioneered the whole DVR concept. EchoStar took these ideas and made their own device without involving TiVo at all.
This is one example of a patent case trying to protect someone who had a wonderful idea. - RyeBrye, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Drsaxman, - you have obviously never used a TiVo. Four button presses give you thirty-second skip. It always has 9 second skip back. I've used just about every DVR software out there - and TiVo rules them all for ease of use and for elegance of the interface.
It also runs on Linux - which makes it taake forever to boot, giving you time to read a book or two if you ever have to restart it which makes it nerd-friendly...
I only use DirecTV because they have TiVo on it. If there was no way to get TiVo on DirecTV - I would be using cable. Plain and simple.
This is one of the few times I've actually rooted for the patent holder... - onceler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8This isn't your "normal" patent case you hear about lately. This is a company, Tivo, who not only patents their ideas, but also brings those patents to fruition. With all the other patent crap that makes the news, it is mainly a holding company sitting on patents and trying to sue anybody who thinks outside the box and tries to bring those ideas to the market. This is more of a company seeing what Tivo is doing and trying to do it themselves.
- bdeisgn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Are you insane? Comparing patents and copyrights to slavery? Talk about exaggeration. Patents and copyrights are NOT bad. What's bad is companies that abuse them and go off suing everything in sight. Without patents and copyrights a photogropher would make no money on his pics, an artist would make no money on an illustration. You obviously have NO idea of what you're talking about.
- CFC1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5There is no learning curve with Tivo, just hit the buttons. It's a very intuitive system (at least I think so).
He was saying that Tivo runs on Linux. - cambrown99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Get two or more Tivo owners together and listen to them talk--it's usually with a passion you don't normally find for any product. Even the little quirks make it cool--mine for some reason thinks I like spanish-language soap operas and bowling shows. It's the best $15 a month I spend.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6while it IS totally refreshing to see a patent suit where the patent holder actually uses the patent, rather than just hold it for suit. But This is another problem with the patent system. You arent allowed to patent ovious things (supposidly), but unfortunately the patent ofice doesnt seem to have the tech savey people to understand ovious tech.
TV tuners have been out for a long time. What to record one show while watching another, easily done with two tv's. Jam two tuners in one box and it is even easier. COOL idea for sure, life changing even but NOT or atleast shouldnt be A patentable invention. Instant replay and pausing live tv maybe, but recording a seperate channel via a seperate tuner, NO. - tennman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4admit it... you pause a little bit longer than usual on Telemundo when you're channel surfing. There's no shame in that.
There's always some fantastically-chested senorita bouncing around on there. TIVO knows you are not innocent. TIVO knows there is joy to be had gazing at a beautiful woman without having to listen to her words. TIVO wants to please you. So enjoy your seven hours of TIVO-suggested "Tiearra de Pasiones" and "La Tormenta". You can always fast forward to the good parts, if you know what I mean.
Viva TIVO - Shugshoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Normally I deplore these patent challenges as well as the decisions the patent office makes in awarding these tech patents, but this time I'm rooting for TiVo full steam ahead. It's personal, I admit, but I love TiVo and I'm all for anything that asserts their stability as a company so I can keep using my TiVo!
- imnotquitesure, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I would not want anyone to copy my million dollar idea. Protect my right to be the first. It's all about the cheddar.
- JamesGHill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The facts.
1. The best DVR on the market today is the HD Tivo from DirecTV. But, DirecTV is backing away from TiVo, and TiVo isn't confident that its Series 3 release will be enough to keep the company alive.
2. Dish, while a fine service and company, is run by a guy who can best be described as a Used Car Salesman. It will be easy to paint "Charlie" as a theif.
3. Saying an HTPC is better as a DVR a joke, and I've built a few. I'm going to guess that those in this camp are suffering from oxygen deprivation due to holding their breath for CableCard compatiblity on PCs. - tennman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You can. Most of the people on this board probably can. But the vast majority of the population can't.
- starmanjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3well, everything is all well and good about the patent situation... not.
ive owned a tivo since 2000 and it has worked perfectly. tivo makes improvements that i wake up to in the morning... and their tech support is great. i had an issue just the other day-about tivotogo... i was on the phone for 5 or 6 minutes... in that time i was on hold 3 times and escalated to second tier support... and had the questions answered... and problems resolved. ive always gotten this exact level of service from them.
im in IT and it gets no better. tivo deserves the title of DVR champ.
i don't work for tivo or anyone related to tivo... im just a very happy customer and wanted to say so... because of yesterdays good experience. - CFC1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3In a way, Tivo doesn't really care about the money they would get from Echostar, more about the decision. With a victory, it would allow them to go to cable companies and essentially require them to get licenses. That's what they really care about.
- EnricoFermi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3TiVo is great in alot of areas, it does have a very inituitive interface and is easy to use...but The damn thing is so sllloooowww. It take almost a half a second to react to each button press, doesn't sound like a long time but it can be very frustrating. Besides that it kicks ass though, when the series 3 comes out (next year I think) It'll be hands down the best DVR on the market
- diggduggjoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2How would Tivo's win affect MythTV and other roll your own PVRs? Should Tivo sue MS over Windows Media Center? Will Tivo sue MythTV?
Regarding Tivo's boot time, it runs forever. Mine boots only when it loses power or my hacks act up. Without my hacks installed, it NEVER crashed. Boot time means little for a console which will rarely need to be booted. With an UPS installed, it would have booted only at upgrade time. That is typical for Linux. It is a great OS for such projects. - dpk87, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Go tivo! I couldn't live without mine. Well... atleast I wouldn't watch TV without mine.
- aliensoldier, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Is TiVo going to sue Free and Open Source DVR's too?
Like MythTV , Freevo , etc? - Nyghtewynd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Don't forget that "all about the monthly fees" will essentially mean that you don't have to pay for a box again--they'll be included in the price (much like Dish's and Direct TV's current structure).
- giloron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1But is it a valid patent? Haven't people with tuners in the computers been recording shows while watching a previously recorded one for a long time? Or maybe it has to do with using 2 tuners. Maybe not a lot of people did that, but only because they couldn't afford to. Watching a show while recording another is obvious. TiVo may be using the patent, but they never should have gotten it.
- Strahd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You will be able to get lifetime subscriptions to Tivo until April 15 2006. But after that, it's all about the monthly fees.
- TheKillDoctor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Since TiVo has eliminated their "life time subscription" and gone with a monthly fee to receive the channel guide I can't see me buying another one (I own two) or upgrading.
- whisperedlie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it can be argued that patents are anti-consumer and can contribute to stagnation of products/technology. on the other hand, they can protect or ensure the growth and profitability of a small innovative business without being crushed by a larger one that has the resources to take that innovation and turn it into a dominating product.
i would say, however, that these days, patents appear to be doing more harm than good.
i don't necessarily want TiVo to lose, but I'm also afraid of how this may kick back to consumers (ME!). trust me, my cable company does not need another excuse to hike the cost of my service. - bdeisgn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ CFCI
Not about the money??? You're stupid. EchoStar is made a profit 1.8 billion last year, Tivo made a profit of....nothing. They've never made a profit (oh wait, they did make about 50K in third quarter last year). Tivo is sinking, fast. Without this win Tivo is gone. - willdaddy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've had two echostar (dish) dvrs, the 506 (based on 501) and the 921. The 506 was pretty easy to use, didn't have near the features of a TiVo, but worked well (all time based scheduling, no season pass). However, the 921 was the worst piece of consumer electronics I have ever owned and like most digg users I have owned my share. I RMA'd my first 921 then sold the replacement after 1+years of absolutely horrible firmware issues and lousy tech support.
After Dish's failure to 'do the right thing' I went to DirecTV and got the HR10-250 (high-def TiVo). It has worked flawlessly. Learning curve was pretty steep (this means easy to master not hard to master, time is x axis) for me, a little less steep for the girlfriend.
I want TiVo to succeed but hasn't the "record one program while watching another" existed since the VCR? - jo42, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The company I worked for in the past was recording one video stream and playing another one back in R&D before TiVo. Only mistake they made was not to patent it before TiVo...
- diggduggjoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I have a SA version 1, it is incredibly stable. DirectTivo may be another thing. I doubt crashing or audio issues were specifically related to using Linux. Crappy software, limited access to proprietary protocols to function with DirectTV and new TIVO junk may be the issues there. I am glad my TIVO no longer upgrades to new versions. My system is just fine the way it is. Of course, your mileage may vary.
- L0gan1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0After the whole Blackberry case where the actually won money against them (RIM inc) I wouldn't take anything for granted.
Now having said that they had a pretty good case but I don't think it's really a hopeles cause to sue against a huge successful company like Tivo anymore. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1what happens when tivo becomes the drm junk some of us fear?
will they be able to sue to keep their monopoly?
patents where never about creating monopolies. - Toast1185, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1In the end Tivo is just an expensive, unnecessary computer. You can roll TV recording and many other media functions (DVDs, music etc...) into one and you have a media center, cheaper, more versatile and upgradeable. Everyone here is presumably tech savvy, so it won't be the end of the world if Tivo fades away, which it is bound to do
- cosborne2000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"doctrine of equivalents"?!
GOOD LORD! Not only do we have a patent law that destroys innovation but we have legal hammers like the "doctrine of equivalents" to go even farther. So now you can sue people even if they don't copy your bogus "whats prior art mean?" patent.
TIVO failed because of a poor business model. How did they explain the digital recorders that preceded them? I guess mythTV will soon be dead. When I record something with my video capture card will their lawyers be stopping by my house for payment? - aliensoldier, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@bdeisgn, you said:
"Are you insane?"
Why attack me instead of my argument. If you disagree with me, then show me how I am wrong. Don't "insult me" and think that somehow that proves that you are correct in your assertions.
You also said:
"Patents and copyrights are NOT bad."
I didn't say they were "bad", I said they were "morally wrong". I think you are mixing up "moral good and bad" with "utilitarian good and bad". (I'm arguing over morality and not utilitarianism as you seem to be.)
I'm not arguing whether patents help grow business or science or whatever else would make you think they are "good". I am arguing the "morality" of them.
Slavery also can have beneficial effects to businesses and even nations. But it is still morally wrong. The ends do NOT justify the means. - SilentPurity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0This is an article which fails to tell both sides of the story, pretty much rendering useless as far as I am concerned. We all know what would happen if Tivo would win, but what we need to know is what would happen if they lost. No Digg.
- aliensoldier, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3I see people are modding down the comment above (about "patents being a crime").
But although he "said it wrong", he is "right".
While patents are NOT a crime. They are morally wrong. Here's why.... Patents forcibly take away your freedom.
Now I know we've grown up with patents and copyright and think that somehow these are "natural" and "normal". But this is akin to how people who grow up with slavery think it is "natural" and "normal". (Where most of us here are disgusted at the very idea of slavery. But why not be disgusted with copyright and patents then?... try to figure out exactly "what" disgusts you about slavery... you may be logically "forced" to change your views on copyright and patents.)
And even though the good guy -- TiVo -- is winning in this case,.... The ends do not justify the means. - RyeBrye, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1"It NEVER crashed" - how nice for you. I wasn't comlaining about the boot time - I was just commenting on it. And yes - my unhacked DirecTiVo will crash every once in a while... (3 times or so in a year of use? not too bad... but definitely not "never")
My sister lost close to a year of her life trying to troubleshoot a new TiVo that had problems with the audio... because every troubleshooting step involved her unplugging and plugging it back in... - drsaxman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Actually I have used a TiVo and wasn't all that impressed. Thanks for the four button presses tip, I'll try that next time I use one. I'm not sure what version of EchoStar's DVR you have used (probably one of the 501 or 510 models) but only a couple of them ran on Linux, the newer ones do not. I think EchoStar's system is just a lot more cut and dry. The user interface is not glamorous, but it is extremely easy to use and the learning curve much less steep.
- spikes, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6Patents are a crime, tired of hearing about all the ***** related to them.
The blockbuster/netflix crap in addition to this just makes me sick. All in a single day. - dtfinch, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3It's sad how patents serve to punish any company that succeeds at doing something new.
- drsaxman, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1EchoStar practically invented the DVR, TV pause capability was in the original Dishplayer box. (It had webTV too.) I also think EchoStar's DVR technology is better than Tivo. You can skip ahead in 30 second blocks and skip back at 10 second blocks instead of having to fast-forward like a traditional VCR. EchoStar's DVR user interface is much easier to grasp, and it's silent. I think this is a last ditch effort by Tivo to make sure they don't go bankrupt. DirectTV dropped Tivo, and by themselves, they do not have the marketing power to be a successful company. Tivo desperately needs EchoStar's 12 million subscriber base to stay a company. Don't believe for a second that EchoStar is just going to roll over and pay Tivo. Charlie Ergen is incredibly business savy, and he's stingy. He hardly springs for First Class on a flight, let alone $100 million to license a product he probably believe he invented. If a jury awards anything to Tivo, EchoStar will fight the decision tooth and nail. If Tivo loses, they are done.
- terinjokes, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1a little off topic, this there a good SWF to Video tool out there? Freeware please
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