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- tokeio, on 10/10/2007, -7/+34And yet another publicity stunt by the "infamous" Thomas Hawk, competitor to Flickr. T. Hawk is also a professional censor himself. http://www.flickr.com/photos/fetching/1419113305/
- levilprivateer, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16A privately owned website setting its own policies seems pretty clear cut. This guy cannot be "right" because... guess what? Flickr has the right to restrict content however they like. If he doesn't like it, he's welcome to make his own website to post content.
Oh, wait. - tavisjohn, on 10/10/2007, -3/+17If you want to use Flickr, then follow their TOS.
If you want to post "art" or "A Documentary" in images that may violate the TOS of Flickr, then get yourself a ***** normal hosting account somewhere, get a ***** domain name, and host it your ***** yourself!
I hear that the Pirate Bay has an image hosting service that had little to no TOS. Maybe you should check that out...
I could care less if the image was taken 40+ years ago or not. This kind of policy is to help prevent some moron from handing a pack of smokes to a kid, and taking pictures.
If you do not like the policies of a service, then go somewhere else! - teamgwho, on 10/10/2007, -3/+16apparently there is now a flickr group called Kids Smoking.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/kidssmoking/
My .02 is that this is retarded. Books and movies depict illegal acts. So can paintings. Poetry can describe illegal acts. Why should photographs have some special protection against the depiction of something illegal? Besides what's against the law in what part of the world is not in another. Also just because the child in the picture has a lit cigarette in their hand or mouth it does not mean they are indeed smoking. I have pictures of jmy 4 year old son behind the wheel of my car but that doesn't mean he was driving...
It seems the only reason is because it's all about... say it with me folks... THE CHYYLLDRUNN!!!!
***** please. I want to go take a picture of my kid smoking just to post it in protest. I think Flickr drank the same cool-aid that the MPAA drank when they decided that making any moving with smoking should garner an R rating was a good idea. Luckily that hasn't happened yet.
I know, I should create a new group on Flickr "illegal acts that Flickr probably won't delete" - SleepingOrange, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15Common Thomas, we all know you are zooomr CEO. As much as I tend to agree with you more often than not (and read your blog a few times a week), isn't this indirect, yet still somewhat akin to shameless self promotion? I would tend to take you more seriously if flickr wasn't your direct competition.
Yes I appreciate your outspoken personality (ie, shat disturber), but your current position as a business competitor to the recipients of your outspoken-ness tends to weaken your points on some level. - smaragd, on 10/10/2007, -8/+18If they won't permit photos of a crime as minor as a child smoking, then I'm sure they'll DEFINITELY not allow posting photos of even worse crimes. They'll delete photos of people looting after a hurricane, right? How about photos depicting a robbery in progress? We don't want to be promoting robbery, so they've got to go.
How about photos of Chinese dissidents illegally protesting for democracy? I wonder what kind of reaction THAT would provoke? - acmephoto, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10OK, then eBay is "censoring" things too. Like you can't things (even historic photos) that have a Natzi symbol on it. They also crack down on colored gels for (antique) light bars. People who restore old police and ambulance buyers can't buy these parts easily as eBay kills many of these auctions.
BIG DEAL, it's their website and their TOS.... Same thing for flickr! Also this title implies that last time Thomas Hawk was wrong last time. ;-) - bitt3n, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7how is not posting pictures of children smoking "thinking of the children'? do they really think that posting those pictures promotes acceptance of child smoking? maybe they'll ban pictures of homeless next, since that just promotes the idea that homelessness is acceptable. jackasses.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Who??
- captinherb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I do find "Error 404-Not Found" offensive
- timmerk15, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Link is broken, but can still be found here: http://shhexycorin.co.uk/images/smoking-bloke.jpg
- levilprivateer, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Censorship on a privately owned website is both commonplace and a non-issue.
- tokeio, on 10/10/2007, -5/+11I could care less what Mr. Hawk takes photographs of. He is a shameless self promoter and would rather stir it up on a web site he proclaims he won't be posting to anymore because it gets him attention.
Now, would you want to venture a guess as to why Mr. Hawk (CEO of Zooomr - direct competitor of Flickr) would post an image he does not even own and rant about censorship on a web site he doesn't own? Hmm. Let's look at the facts. How about the FACT that Zooomr gets zero traffic compared to Flickr? (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details? ...
Why would Mr. Hawk want to take a censored photo on Flickr and post it on Zooomr to rant and rave about? No one would view it on Zooomr. Only his little fanboys would view it. What fun would that be having 10 fanboys agree with out all the time? This whole thing is yet another publicity stunt by Mr. Hawk to draw attention to his fledgling company.
Flickr has the right to ban, edit, censor, and delete whatever the heck they want on their own site. Mr. Hawk does not have the right to post copyrighted images and repost already deleted images on a site he does not own. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Again....it has NOTHING to do with "illegal". It is a judgement call that they make, and have every right to make as it is their site.
- sporb, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7buried cause of all the previous zooomr spam from thomas hawk
- kindrobot, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8"I agree mahony. There's people eating out of garbage cans in other countries but we're more concerned in the US about how companies censor public photo-sites."
I hate people like that with a passion. "There are people drowning babies in other countries and we're more concerned about some war in Iraq?" Idiots. Just insert ANYTHING into A and anything else into B and it translates to us not being justified in complaining about B?? Fail!
Error, please restart human. - levilprivateer, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7
Flickr doesn't owe you an answer, though it would benefit everyone involved if they had a clearly stated policy on how they decide what stays and what goes. Even so, though, any policy that they have is subject to change and interpretation. While the users that pay for space may have a legitimate argument if Flickr's removal is clearly violating the terms of removal (could be considered breach of agreement, perhaps), the free users have no such recourse. - levilprivateer, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6I'm not saying that you don't have a right to complain... I'm simply pointing out that ultimately, the policies on Flickr are Flickr's to decide. Good customer service would seem to dictate that they listen to their customers, yes. I have to take issue with someone implying, however, that Flickr is somehow wrong in removing the picture in question.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Regardless of whether or not he is self-promoting his own site, what Flickr did is uncalled for. I'm sure most people don't care for pictures of young girls smoking, but drinking? Please don't take that away.
- kiranlightpaw, on 10/10/2007, -5/+10You know, I was a fan of Thomas when he was railing against PriceRitePhoto. But after seeing this, along with his responses in the linked thread, my opinion for him has taken a serious blow.
- jeffness, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8it's not necessarily censorship. i mean, it might be under only the most strict sense of the term, but you have to understand that the cause of this sort of thing are market forces at work. Flickr (as with almost every web service) relies on advertising and is a commercial operation. It is up to the proprietors of a website to determine the type of content they will (and will not) allow.
Anyone bemoaning "censorship" may well be right about the censorship, but they are completely wrong in thinking they have any right to dictate to another private entity how they run their establishment. Quit your bitching and start your own child-crime endorsing "censorship free" image hosting service if you feel the market will support it. freedom is wonderful like that. - iRoy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6That photo was also used as a Dinosaur Jr. album cover. "Green Mind" to be exact, great band in my opinion...
- estacado, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Oh... it's time for some Zoomr publicity again. Subscriptions going slow lately?
- tokeio, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Only Yahoo!/Flickr has the right to decide what is or isn't uncalled for on their site. That's why a TOS on pretty much everything ending in .net,.com,.org,.tv,.biz,.whatever exists. Use of any service means you abide by their TOS.
The photo in question is from the late 1960's and was flagged by a Flickr user which prompted it to be moderated. Flickr wasn't looking for pictures of kids smoking, it was brought to their direct attention by the user community.
Mr. Hawk though decided he would like to take it up as another personal crusade... Perhaps he should be more careful with his children and be sure to monitor their YouTube usage. - mathew_bug, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3This guy is full of ***** and he doesn't quit until his servers at zooomr stall (which shouldn't take more than 100000 hits).
flickr is a web site and as such there are terms that you must comply to. If you disagree, pay us a favour and just leave.
Also, it seems the photo in question is copyright of Joseph Szabo [ http://www.photosofteenagers.com/index.html ] and no one should post it on flickr. - mathew_bug, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Mr. Thomas,
you, sir, are full of *****.
Just stop it now. Please.
flickr is a website and has terms you have to comply. If you wish not to, you can leave. It's that simple.
The photo in question is copyright and no one should be posting it on flickr in the first place.
So no, you're not right this time. Again.
zooomr will never be a direct competitor to flickr. Ever.
Just quit this ***** already. - snyper, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5This has nothing to do with "market forces" or "censorship." It has to do with frivolous lawsuits. I'd bet your left nut that the reason Yahoo! does this is to protect itself against the government / crazy ass parents from suing them over promoting underage smoking or underage drinking or anything else. They are big company who is trying to limit its risk. Simple as that. Hell you are using their service read the ToS if you don't like it take your business elsewhere.
- jedinate, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I say the same thing every time the censorship issue comes up on Flickr.
"No one is forcing anyone else to post on Flickr, if you don't like the rules, then leave, it is really that simple. There are hundreds of sites to post your pictures to, find one and leave Flickr if it is so bad." - vango, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4who cares that hes a "competitor" that should make Yahoo even more cautious to censor him
- tokeio, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Yeah, pretty funny that he can't seem to stop posting to Flickr instead of promoting his own site... Oh, wait.
- viruz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"Subscriptions going slow lately?"
No. Just the site... As usual - mathew_bug, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2More suspicious? flickr has terms - period. If they say you can't you just can't. flickr isn't a country and this isn't censorship.
- LordBalderdash, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7it's their site, they can make whatever rules they like and enforce them however they like. it's not as if there aren't a billion other places you can post your images...
i can't really get all riled up about this particular brand of 'censorship'. - stark23x, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Please. Trying to explain that to some people is like trying to put a dress on a pig. They don't care; any inconvenience to doing whatever they want, whenever they want is "censorship."
I swear to God they must just sit around in schools today playing pattycake and masturbating. I don't think anyone has actually learned anything since 1983. - Scorp888, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Really, all they have to do it provide a service?
So it's ok for me to ask you to drive me somewhere using your car and your petrol (gas) and oh by the way, I'm going to smoke in your car to right, as you have no rights over me, I'm just a user of your car, and your providing me with a service.
STOP
Reality check,. Flickr etc et al are a BUSINESS.
They set out the terms of how THEY want YOU to do business with THEM.
If you don't like it, as others have said, don't use them set up your own service. Simple.
Other than that, pick me up at 0600 tomorrow, I feel like smoking with you driving me around...Home James.. - Glidedon, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5It's not censorship unless it's done by the government.
- mathew_bug, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Tony Hawk. You know him...oh, wait.....
- jedinate, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I totally agree, the US is sue happy country.
- smaragd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1When any paying customer is unhappy with the service they are paying for, they have a right to lodge a protest. End of story. That's all anyone has to know.
It's a shame that you and all the other people who don't know this don't have to live with your own imaginary rules of behavior, where you pay for something and then just shut up if it's not what you paid for. - tokeio, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3+1, someone else gets it!
- smaragd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Every paying customer of a service has the right to complain if that service starts to suck. Do you disagree? Seriously?
- otatop, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Who ever said that a photo of a kid smoking is worse than a photo of any other illegal act? Only you. You're setting up straw man arguments.
Yes, you have the right to complain about a service you're paying for, but in this situation it makes no sense. This is nothing like complaining about never having service, or coverage areas, or a garment's fabric. Right in the Yahoo! TOS:
"You agree to not use the Service to:
1.
upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;
You acknowledge that Yahoo! may or may not pre-screen Content, but that Yahoo! and its designees shall have the right (but not the obligation) in their sole discretion to pre-screen, refuse, or remove any Content that is available via the Service. Without limiting the foregoing, Yahoo! and its designees shall have the right to remove any Content that violates the TOS or is otherwise objectionable."
That "otherwise objectionable" is what gets you. It's at their discretion. You agreed to it. Don't like it? Take your pictures somewhere else. - sillywampa, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I had that album and a tshirt with that cover on it. Someone once asked me if it was my sister.
- smaragd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Ooh, heavier traffic is proof that the site is better -- just like bigger sales of an album means the music is better. 'Cos we all know, the more an album sells, the better the music must be. A hundred flies on a warm, moist turd can't be wrong.
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siarhei@senpai-it.com - mangasm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0 Books and movies have fictional characters, or have names changed so that any incriminating reference to a real life person can be taken out. Poetry can hardly point a finger at a particular person. A person will always look the same, and evidence of a child caught in an embarassing situation while underage could be made permanent with the internet.
Sure, you could argue that incriminating photos would never be taken if they didn't do anything wrong, but that's stupid. Not everyone is aware of the possible retribution for their actions, ESPECIALLY not at such a young age. Furthermore, if you say something like that, you can not ever fight against government spying, because, afterall, nothing bad will happen if you're not ever doing anything wrong, right?
While I do not agree with the censorship in itself, I do think that the girl should be protected. However, this image was taken in 1969 (?), and I verily doubt that she looks the same, or could even be recognized except by perhaps a few people, most of whom probably do not use digg... It should stay. - ed113113, on 10/22/2008, -0/+0http://www.gil-ffxi.com
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