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- aprice2704, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I have studied the SE and attended (and presented at) a couple of the conferences and the first competition.
Dr Pugno's ideas are most likely valid, but simplistic. As people have noted above, the SE would be composed of many nanotubes and I expect that careful design will lead to a reasonable fraction of the full strength of pure SWNTs -- which has actually been measured at 250GPa, not 100GPa as the article states. General consensus among material scientists at least as familiar with the issues as Dr Pugno is that 100GPa ultimate strength is achievable, if not easy. Even 30GPa would be usable for some shapes of SE (tapered, thickest near GEO, much thinner at the Earth's surface), though it would require much more material to get started, which makes initial launch costs higher.
Blaise Gassend has pointed out that 63GPa is a key strength since at 63GPa one may build a constant cross-section SE, which has some nice properties. Strengths higher that 63GPa are obviously even more useful and even allow an 'inverse taper' (thicker near the Earth) which also allow some nifty options, such as a self-unspooling elevator that lifts things without being powered.
A valid concern is that breaking nanotubes will cause local heating as they deposit tensional energy into surrounding material causing further breakage. Again, clever choice of geometry may mitigate or eliminate this if indeed it turns out to be a problem.
The other worrisome problem is that of 'fratricide' -- one elevator fails and brings down all the other (we would need several in time).
Aside from those two potential problems, the huge hurdle is producing the SWNTs in sufficient purity, quantity and length. The other problems people have suggested are generally quite solvable.
Michael Laine and his crew at Liftport seem to be going strong -- they are writing a book right now.
Brad Edwards is starting a company in Seattle to produce very long SWNTs.
Ben Shelef (www.elevator2010.com) is organizing the SE Competitions, the next one being in Las Cruces, NM in October, I think. I'll be there -- come along if you can!!
Andy - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18We should trust the people who built that leaning tower!
- addisonj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Sure we call a space elevator impossible now... but just 30 years ago if you would have said we would have 3 CPU cores all running at 3.2 GHZ (Xbox 360 chip) and 1 GB sticks of RAM, they would have said you were insane.
Only shortsided people ever call things "impossible".
Then again ask people in the 1950's what the year 2000 would be like, they would have said flying cars, robots that do everything for you, and all food in pill form. What has happened is probably in fact more revolutionary, with instant communication anywhere and computers able to help us learn so much more. My point being that what we "expect" can often change because science progresses so fast. It might be easier to in fact teleport someone into space then carry them up physically (not saying it will ever happen, just an example) - pope7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I had a friend who cut he slef clean off. His wife left him. poor soul.
- mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17..don't the french look down at everyone?
but seriously, that was a pretty harsh statement.. - foovo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Fermi & Marconi sort of knew what they doing. There was this Galileo guy as well ... got into a bit of trouble with the church you may remember.
Oh, and they invented espresso long before Starbuck's invented the "Hot Milk Beverage". - speezer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Just brew up some nano-machines to continuously repair it.
- Tyrekicker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I hate it when my slef gets cut
- fahrenheitlf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Was anyone honestly expecting a space elevator soon?
People once thought that breaking the sound barrier was impossible but we over came it with technology. Maybe we will develop protective coatings and methods for deverting objects. The elevators could scan the ribbons for defects and repair on the fly. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Actually the article did address that. It specifically mentions that multiple strands like those you imply don't actually help.
- p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Just how much use will that RED button be if you get stuck in the Space Elevator?
- loup, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Is it just me, or does Nicola Pugno seem to ignore the fact that there could actually be significant advances in the technology used with this concept?
As we all know, all computers still take up entire rooms and are only owned by universities and research facilities, my clothes are all hand woven on looms.
Yeah, I know he does say "using today's technology," but he does mention that he doesn't seem to think this idea is feasible in the future as well. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9carbon nanotubes really are the answer to every thing.
"***** i cut my slef" "dont worry i put some carbon nanotubes on it" - ShaDoWwork, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9never say never.
- lava, on 10/12/2007, -10/+15I did you bastard. What if you have more than one cable, as is the case with many other engineering projects, such as um, bridges? the article doesn't address that, it just states the width and thickness of a thread.
- sentry3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Carbon shortage" ... ROFL
- uomoragno, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I could write down a list of hundreds names of italian scientists
and their pivotal contributes in the twentieth century. Just remembering three, for your pleasure,
Professor Enrico Fermi (first nuclear reactor) or Professor Tullio Levi Civita (tensorial calculus - the mathematical tool for relativity) while Ingegner Federico Faggin invented the microprocessor. - ShaDoWwork, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8nothing worse than cutting your slef
ouch now thats gotta hurt. - mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6i had wondered about this as well..
but i think lava is right, it doesn't need to be just a single nanotube cable, it could be dozens twisted together like in a suspension bridge.. and there could also be backup cables like in traditional elevators.. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Well we do have the robots that do (buy) everything that Steve Jobs tells them to. Is that close enough?
- sketchstudios, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7i cant imagine that we would EVER build this. Ill tell you why. its not that we cant, or that we shouldnt, its the simple fact that we as humans would NEVER be able to withstand the incredible force of bordem and misery in that tube elevator listening to the same kind of elevator music they have at your local clothes department store. and just imagine how annoying it would be to hear God knows how many "Dings!" for every floor. from earth - to the space station elevator top floor... thats a lot of dings and adult contemporary music to be had. yeesh
- CaptainChad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Clarke's First Law: "When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong."
(http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.Laws.html) - lava, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5oh the kennygmanity!
- Antialias, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The whole concept of a space elevator was to have multiple threads woven together, but the problem is that above a certain point, adding more threads makes the problem worse, as each additional thread adds more weight to the cable than support to hold it's own weight. If you do the math based the the bond strength of a carbon nanotube, I think it comes out to like 20% less than what would be needed for a space elevator, meaning that a single thread would be 20% too weak to support it's own weight, let alone extra cargo on an elevator. Carbon nano tubes are just not strong enough for this application unless we can improve on the design which will probably happen eventually.
- johndi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9I guess you didn't read the recent poll that shows the British think the French are the most unfriendly, boring, and rude people on the planet.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060520/od_afp/afplifestylebritainfrancesocietyoffbeat_060520070017 - wilf_brim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4gg to you sir. Thanks for adding some enlighted commentary. I really want this to work. I want my Gorram Space Elevator! Ever since I read Heinlen I thought it was cool. Although powering it would still be a problem.
- karch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3There's no air resistance like if you were to stick an arm out on a merry go round, since all the air around the earth is following the earth's spin.
Hold on, DOES the air follow the earth's spin? - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"There's no air resistance"
Except for the atmosphere. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -24/+27...and vastly inaccurate. By the way making anti-French comments of late pretty much means you can be generalized as:
1. American
2. Young
3. Naive (see 2.)
4. Suck at history
5. Believe what your favourite media outlet/goverment spokesperson tells you, especially when it makes you feel superior.
Thinking about it. Most of the above could be rolled into one generalization, but it would upset most of the Digg folk.
Oh... and I'm not French, by the way. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The Space Elevator was never really envisioned for human travel, but rather for moving cargo up and down. As for the time, why not string several 'cars' to it and have them all moving simultaneously up and down 2 parallel 'nano-ribbons' with a switching station thingy at the top?
Getting down would be easy though, and FAST. - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Was anyone honestly expecting a space elevator soon? "
Arhtur C. Clark - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Good point. It's just that the French-bashing from a such very conspiciously narrow cross-section of folk is pretty funny also.
- SkyFire360, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I really respect this idea, and wish like hell it would work... but it just doesn't seem reasonable. Say you need the elevator to climb halfway up to the counterweight (62,000 miles is the current estimate)... that's 32k miles. If you are climbing up the cable at 20 feet a second (a damned good clip, I might add), it would take you about 2347 hours - or 97.7 days - to reach the 32k mile mark.
- fyngyrz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Why does this space elevator concept start to remind me of a perpetual motion machine?"
...because you don't understand it. Eiher study it so you do, or don't worry about it. The people working on it have dealt with this -- that information is just a link away using a good search engine. Go on. Give it a try. You can do it. - fyngyrz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes, we can say for sure. Vanilla physics contains all the required tools needed to anticipate how such a failure would proceed, as well as anticipating under what conditions it will occur, given the material(s) that the final structure uses. Not to mention preventive techniques that can be applied. Again, this has all been addressed. Go look it up. Stop fretting about something you don't understand, and go get the understanding you lack. The world has far too many uninformed fear-mongers. This is going to happen. Count on it. The benefits are huge, the downside easily understood.
- jayf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The space elevator: going down?
No, but Venice is slowly sinking underwater. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Hmm, I don't know. His first encounter didn't end up all roses did it. And that was just on an old-style bridge!
- deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3...and we have chimps that insist on using Microsoft OS's because everyone else does...
- RadiatedAnt, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Screw the elevator, I still say the space escalator is a sure bet! I just don't know what would happen to the slinky at low gravity :P
- EochaidRiata, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Go shave your heads and put on white masks, you really aren't that much better the way you are speaking on this post. Catch some class, you might learn some in Italy. The dogs have more class than you there. "
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http://www.cbc.ca/sports/columns/analysis/molinaro/molinaro_050415.html
In 1999, S.S. Lazio played city rivals AS Roma, a team widely supported by Rome's significant Jewish population. Lazio's ultras took anti-Semitism to sickening heights when they unfurled a 50-metre banner around their section of Rome's Olympic Stadium that read: 'Auschwitz is your town, the ovens are your houses.'
This past weekend, 17 fans were arrested and 259 later identified and charged with throwing objects onto the field, committing acts of violence in the stands, chanting fascist slogans and waving neo-Nazi banners following games in Rome, Palermo, Udine, Cava dei Tirreni and Perugia.
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Ever see those things in the NFL? - DigitAl56K, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Uh.. wtf now? 62K miles?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_atmosphere
Maybe I am missing something.. - troydoogle7, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Looks like Bigotry and racist talk is alive and well on digg. I hope your mothers are proud.
Go shave your heads and put on white masks, you really aren't that much better the way you are speaking on this post.
Catch some class, you might learn some in Italy. The dogs have more class than you there. - Machismo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It would be a good thing then. It could reduce the effects of a solar storm. Why would nanotubes be the new asbestos? Because it is nanotechnology? That assertion is COMPLETELY unscientific and irrational. Perhaps in the fab process, nanoparticles of the doping materials would be harmful (as it is in the micro and nano-scale semi conductor industry). Even then, it could be treated to offer extra protection for the public ease of mind.
The cable gets wet and conductive is not an issue. It would likely be doped to improve conduction. That way, the electrical current from a lightning strike would follow the cable into the ground, bypassing ground, space, and lift facilities. Even still, a conductive wire in the upper atmosphere would simply prevent lightning strikes as the static electricity in the clouds would be discharged into the cable when it's charge is still relatively low (compared to that of a normal lightning strike. - ConceptJunkie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It wouldn't be too bad. There would only be two buttons: Earth, and Space. Of course, it takes a bit to get to the second floor, even on the Express.
- scruffmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What are you? The energizer bunny's cousin?
- deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I 'believe in' t in Clarke's vision given that he predicted geosynchronus satellite in 1945.
I heard a (possibly apocraphal) account that he retired to Sri-Lanka/Ceylon because it was close enough to the equator to make building a space elevator feasible.
http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.ETRelaysFull.html
In his book, 3001, he details an elaborate equatorial orbital ring suspended on 4 gigantic diamond towers with space elevators. The diamond is sourced from the remnants of Jupiter's diamond core before it became the star Lucifer in the book 2010.
The key to -everything- may be elemental carbon.
How cool is that? - euqinhcet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The big use of a space elevator would be cargo. And If your not riding the thing would it matter if it took a week to get to the top?
- euqinhcet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The cable need's to be so long because that's the heigth where a weight swinging at the end would be able to hold up the weight of the cable+cars. So you just get off where you want along the way.
- n1qaw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ditto....I dont expect it soon, but considering his other idea was met with just as much skepticism The idea has merit just from the low cost to weight lift ratio
- ntnwwnet, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Love the title.
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