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213 Comments
- bbrosemer, on 10/12/2007, -39/+96Ill upgrade to vista when Linux stops being free...
- Destinatus, on 10/12/2007, -25/+79@bbrosemer: ooo, I wanna play. "I'll upgrade to Linux once game companies start developing for it."
- latova, on 10/12/2007, -10/+36A few upgrades to XP isn't going to make me spill out a few hundred dollars for this thing.
- simpleid, on 10/12/2007, -22/+45Been using Vista now for a few weeks. I've been able to do everything I want, I like it, my apps run, games are fine, everything's smooth for me. I'll buy Ultimate soon and get on with my programming while you guys all bitch around for the next 3 years.
There's an obvious trend, everyone bitches for a little while then everyone upgrades. It's been happening since 98. Why don't you just swallow your ego's and get it over with. You're all wasting a lot of time.
Enjoy! - ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23That's not a hair question.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17This is from Microsoft's own blog:
"Will Windows Vista content protection features increase CPU resource consumption?
Yes. However, the use of additional CPU cycles is inevitable, as the PC provides consumers with additional functionality."
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/01/20/windows-vista-content-protection-twenty-questions-and-answers.aspx
Inevitable? ***** you, Microsoft! Who asked for this "feature"? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17You can't possibly think that Appe has a 30% market share and that Linux has 20%.
Even by Digg standards you are delusional.
And kolop...by this time next year? Try by the start of summer there will be more people running Vista than any Mac O/S - shadus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19The real answer has nothing to do with your old xp key. You can install vista over vista for all that matters (search digg, the story was front page a day or so ago.)
My policy for all Microsoft products is at least 6 months and a service pack. Usually after the first service pack and six months, Microsoft gets their ***** together at least enough that the product can be run reasonably well without having the worst bugs known to man causing horrendous problems left and right. - lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -17/+30The question for most people is not IF but WHEN. Ever since windows 95, there has been a camp of people at each new windows release that say "we will not upgrade." It is always over the very same issues: performance and stability. Still, all those people upgraded or switched to linux, and lets be honest, very few switched to linux.
The truth is, it is inevitable. Every new computer will have vista already installed, every new game will require vista, every new application will be optimized for vista. You'll switch whether you want to or not.
Vista is no more expensive than XP, I don't know why people are saying it is. Yes, XP costs less in the last couple months because it is obsolete, but before that it had the same price tag. - ringo380, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22Alright, how much are they paying you for this?
I just bought and installed Ultimate yesterday (funded by the office, thanks) and I'm telling you right now that it's nothing to write home about. Are you honestly telling me that the 3D alt+tab has revolutionized your task switching? It's the same as it's always been, except a little shinier. It IS a gimmick, and it is not a feature that anyone should be giving any serious consideration.
As for the rest of it, there's nothing that really stands out to me as being brand new or revolutionary. I'm not saying it's a bad operating system, but I don't think it's anything that people need to run out and spend $200-400 on out of necessity. Indexed search and sidebar were in google desktop, albeit memory hogging and not integrated very well. Media center's nothing new, although it's nice to see it included. Security's great, but anyone who knows their way around the freeware community has already got that figured out with no money spent. I haven't noticed any distinct difference between loading times as far as caching is concerned.
If anything, after spending the [office] money on Vista, I've been subconsciously taking note of all the recent Ubuntu developments that have been showing up, and wondering if that $400 could have been better spent on something else. - nwoolls, on 10/12/2007, -14/+27"Let me know how all the shiny new drm effects how you use your computer. "
It affects his computer by allowing him to play Blu-Ray and HD-DVD content. Something you won't be able to do without that Shiny New DRM. - Fumz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12@ Mythos,
"We are disappointed that CPU-intensive applications such as video transcoding with XviD (DVD to XviD MPEG4) or the MainConcept H.264 Encoder performed 18% to nearly 24% slower in our standard benchmark scenarios. Both benchmarks finished much quicker under Windows XP. There aren't newer versions available, and we don't see immediate solutions to this issue."
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista/
I would call 18%-24% more than just noticeable.
Other links which disagree with your assertion that the difference is negligible:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=354&type=expert&pid=11
http://consumer.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTI3MywxLCxoY29uc3VtZXI
As far as polling all the time goes, I already linked that:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
These are serious charges leveled at Microsoft, true. Now perhaps you could show me where you're getting the idea DRM is "only on" when premium content is being played? - kolop1, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17Its more like 94% XP.
4% Mac O/S
1% Linux
1% Vista.
By next year more people will have Vista than will have be running the Mac O/S or the Linux O/S. I guess I'm just an ***** though. - benadamson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Not to vista.
- monergism, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Volume? Seriously? That's a deciding factor?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I bet I could write a shell script to replace you.
- LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -0/+8If you can write a shell script to replace him, you need a life of your own.
- demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@Destinatus:
"ooo, I wanna play. "I'll upgrade to Linux once game companies start developing for it."
Or, rather, stop developing with only DirectX in mind. The last time I checked, DirectX wasn't open source. With all the Novell/Microsoft news buzz you would think if Microsoft wanted Linux and Windows to work together they would make DirectX open source. Perhaps it's time you and others who appreciate gaming ask Microsoft why they don't do this for the benfit of all gamers?
"Microsoft DirectX killing innovation"
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=8556 - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10BlackCow, you are mistaken. They built on top of the Windows 2003 code base.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7[quote]Yet right, who is going to tell me that I cannot use my home computer for ANYTHING unrelated to work?[/quote]
The DRM in Vista can detect whether you are doing work or fooling around. If it catches you not working, Vista will notify Homeland Security and you'll be hauled off to Guantanamo Bay for terrorism. - robohoe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Lol, now we're going from "XP Sux!!!11" to "XP rocks" and "Vista Sux0rz!!!1" just like we did with 2k and XP.
- gregdigg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I'm a Mac user too, but I do like the idea of application-independent volume control.
- Lyianis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Actually thats superfetch at work.
The reason you see high Ram utiliztion in Vista(80%) is because the OS utilizes the RAM for quick launching by keeping your often used program in memory. It dumps them if something else needs the memory, or executes it if the program is lauched. - mcrules, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I cannot afford Vista.. how the hell can I afford a Mac! :-)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10we'll be forced to .."vista". statistics count my laptop running windows even though i boot linux.
- hungryduck, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9The real question is: To DRM® or not to DRM®
- Fumz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11@ nwoolls & foolfromhell,
The suggestion that users will not be able to play HD DVD/Blue-Ray without DRM, and the suggestion that DRM "isn't harmful" when premium content isn't being played is not only simplistic, but false.
Which attempt at copy protection led you to believe that the current version of copy protection won't be (isn't already) cracked... by machines running XP no less? If producers of "premium content" wanted another version of copy protection, they should have insisted the makers of HD DVD/Blue-Ray drives implement it; instead, Microsoft acquiesced and forced DRM on its consumers through its operating system.
Vista requires a powerful machine because of DRM, period. Under Vista, device drivers must poll corresponding hardware at a rate of 60ms. Think about that. 60 times every second Vista drivers must talk to the hardware to make sure you're not doing something Hollywood thinks you shouldn't. That eats up your system resources, ie, that expensive CPU and memory you paid for... paid for to enjoy, not keep tabs on you.
You can read about the effects, all harmful, here: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
Microsoft read this article and didn't much care for its straightforward tone and made an attempt to reply: http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/01/20/windows-vista-content-protection-twenty-questions-and-answers.aspx
However, if you read both carefully you will notice that Microsoft does not directly address the serious charges that Gutmann asserts. Instead they cleverly sidestep the issues of performance with creative phrases like, "increased functionality". Worse, Gutmann responds to the Microsoft reply and uses Dave Marsh's own words to essentially prove him a liar. You can find that rather funny part towards the end of the page in the Gutmann link. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Good news for the 6 people who listen to NPR.
- chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11MS totally F^&$ed us by not including mouse support in DOS. it's shocking! how dare technology move on and improve, god damn it.
- monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11"I even notice progams opening faster."
That's what happens when you install a fresh copy of Microsoft OS.
Once the DLL hell's built up, you are still screwed. - spyd3rweb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6i still use 2k, and always will as long as it functions.
- majortom1981, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Wow people like bashing microsoft for no reason. Also cant get facts straight.
I got Vista home premium for $119 ($199 for ultimate )at NewEgg. Yes its an oem copy put who seriously goes around moving their os from comp to comp?
Also vista is a lot more stable then xp is and conencts to my wireless network much faster. I even notice progams opening faster.
Also the different volumes for different programs is a god send. You know how annoying it is when your watching a movie and then have an im come in that blares across the speakers and deafens you? (I like hearing audible prompts so dont tell me to just shut off the sounds)
With vista I can lower the sound of aim without lowering how loud my dvd is playing.
Also things like being able to record something on media center then record it to dvd without any third party programs is a god send. - Fumz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9archer75,
Vista polls hardware every second the machine is on. It does not matter if you happen to be watching premium content or not. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Ok, ignore the Apple cultists, Linux evangelists, and MS trolls for a moment.
Should you upgrade to Vista? It depends on what you'll use it for.
Gaming - Definitely not, wait until SP1 or later. Gamers are having a lot of trouble with Vista right now.
Business - Yes. There's a few things improved over XP in this case. But make sure your hardware is ready.
Home - You could, but there's not much reason to yet. You'll save yourself some trouble if you wait.
IT - All you MS trolls already have it since the beta. Stop harassing the rest of us.
Developers - Yes. Probably already using it since the beta?
Content creators - No. Too early, there are no Vista-optimized apps yet.
Home theater users - Yes. If you have an intense need for DRM'd HD video formats.
Overall, unless you're either a developer or work in Windows-centric IT, you should wait before you get Vista. You'll save yourself some trouble, and if you plan on getting new hardware you'll get a better deal later on than the 1st generation Vista-centric, multi-core stuff available now. - chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -10/+15maybe you can help me then. I'm looking to get OS X for my PC.... no, wait, that's not possible is it!
off you go. go buy some more DRM from iTunes, you'll love it. - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -10/+15@Shadus
Know what you are going to speak about.
When Blu-ray or HD-DVD drives come to Macs, OSX is going to have the same DRM that Vista has.
Having extra DRM on a feature you will never use is not harmful. - Fumz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Mythos,
"Windows Vista's content protection mechanisms are only used when required by the policy associated with the content being played. For Windows Vista experiences, if the content does not require a particular protection, then that protection mechanism is not used."
Gutmann asserted that DRM is always on and that polling of devices is non-stop. He did not address how many CPU cycles DRM used while protecting content. Microsoft carefully crafted the question they asked themselves to avoid addressing Gutmann's charge head on. There's a difference between "on" and "in use".
The boys at Microsoft are very clever, I will hand them that; however, nobody cares how many CPU cycles are being used WHILE you're watching a movie, they care how many are being used when you're NOT. They've created for themselves ample opportunity to answer the charge, yet Microsoft has failed to respond clearly despite creating that blog specifically for that purpose. I think it's somewhat telling that a giant like Microsoft would even respond to some obscure web posting in the first place unless there was a lot to it that Microsoft really doesn't want anyone to know.
I would also argue that DRM is what's holding back ATI and nVidia driver wise. It's not as if those companies are new to the graphics driver market...
You have asked me to back up my points, and I think I have. I would now ask that you back up yours. Please link something, anything, that would lead me to believe that DRM does not use up CPU cycles when protected content isn't being displayed. - YellowBook, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Sorry, volume controls are a pretty low-priority (or non-existent) factor when it comes to deciding whether to switch my OS.
- MadN, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Why are you still using that abandoned scrapheap that is Windows 2000? Upgrade to Fedora Core 6 now!
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/
Fedora Core 6: The Wow Starts Now!
PS: Linux is not crippled with DRM like MS Vistanic. - combustion8, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11windows ME 4 eva!!
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5[quote]Applications load only the DLLs they need, not all the other DLLs installed.[/quote]
The well behaved ones might, but I find too often they load all sorts of junk at startup.
Haven't you ever used Autoruns? Take a look for yourself, dlls, shell extensions, and drivers all over the place. - neoform, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"Hair Questions" are the new "Tubes" comment.
- kolop1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+95 years from now everyone will be running Vista. I remember no one wanted to switch from 98 to XP. It's the just history repeating.
- archer75, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5While I like OSX it's not worth buying overpriced hardware with limited upgrade options for gamers. If apple released it to run on any PC they could make a killing.
- jpop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I agree. It almost sounds like they are desperately dredging the bottom of the barrel for something good to say...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9And you call anecdotal stories from ONE person who may or may not be telling the truth as significant?
Watch this...I have a friend who installed Vista. His laptop battrery life went from 6 hours to 7 hours.
See how easy it is to make claims without evidence to back it up? - archer75, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10"Vista requires a powerful machine because of DRM, period. Under Vista, device drivers must poll corresponding hardware at a rate of 60ms. Think about that. 60 times every second Vista drivers must talk to the hardware to make sure you're not doing something Hollywood thinks you shouldn't"
Only when protected content is being played. This isn't all the time.
And your set top DVD player which must be HDCP compatible and your TV which must also be HDCP comatible does the same exact thing.
And it will in OSX too. - 81v3d07g0d, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18@ bbrosemer And I will start using Linux full time when its as easy to use, has every program I use on it and every other functionality that makes windows the main OS for most of the world.
Thanks for the suggestion though it really gave me something new to consider. - downneck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4windows 98 is 9 years old, knucklehead. if people are still using windows xp 5 years from now, then you can laugh at them.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Looks like I may have been correct about Vista just being a reason to buy a new computer. People who like Vista are probably the same people who like iPods (ya know, those over-priced, cheaply made, easily broken, proprietary file format MP3s with less features than players from other manufacturers but a with nice user interface).
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