What is Digg?108 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+87mebe if u look at what you're typing, you wont sound so stupid
- radu79, on 10/12/2007, -1/+49I doubt they can actually pull this out, the fair use should take precedence.
Nevertheless, if this indeed becomes a law, perhaps it's a good thing. It would outrage the generally apathetic public to such an extent that mass boycotts of RIAA/MPAA could be organized, making this obsolete "buy a CD for 15 bucks" model not viable anymore. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -7/+54"mebe if u her butt it in ur ear u mite here"
Digg me down if you want, but that's one of the funniest bits of undecipherable kidleet I've ever read. Someone had better put the password protection on their computer. Junior's diggin'. - lo0ol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+36Yeah, sometimes it's frustrating. digg users can see what impact the RIAA/MPAA has on our rights, but it's frustrating when the rest of the public can't see it fully. Then you start wondering what would happen if the RIAA/MPAA just got their way, that hopefully the rest of America could finally be incited into action. On the other hand, it's a dangerous route... I think the best action is to just fight it as best we can. The good news is that we *are* fighting it; just look at the past six months and you can see the couple of higher-profile bills that weren't passed in large part to the work of the thousands of techies banding together. It's becoming harder to slide bills like this through since the general public is becoming more responsive and more organized online. Don't get me wrong- we still have quite a way to go... but it's at least some sort of start.
- radu79, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31What I hope is that in the near future (perhaps in 5-10 years) the "open source" movement will extend to other areas, such as movies, TV shows and music. There are already some independent, freely available documentaries, short movies, and some music. But not nearly enough.
Soon, the computers will be so powerful to render stuff with the quality of the Shreck movies in days, not months. A distributed rendering system, where everyone can use their computer to render frames in a "open source" movie might happen in the near future.
With such a tool, talented artists and writers could make their own CG movies, rendered by such a distributed system, and released for free, on p2p networks.
I am part of a successful game development team, currently having a somewhat successful MMO game, which is pretty much free. There are other indie games out there, many of them free as well. Soon, it is my hope, the quality and availability of the free stuff will be on par with the commercial releases. - samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+30Fair use should have trumped the DMCA, too. But it has't yet.
- quakefiend, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19dont forget any time a song is stuck in your head!
- rishubhav, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15So if I read this right, every copy must be licensed?? Thats like saying I must pay for it when my CD player turns the music into an electric signal!
- threepio, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14It's not that the general public can't see it; they're too busy with their lives to care.
When you break it down it's simple: when you're young, your in university or college or high school and your world consists of how things impact you directly.
Fast forward a few years and suddenly you've got car payments and mortgage payments and kids and a dog and a fish that you have to keep replacing cause your little bastard won't stop feeding him. It's not about you - it's about those around you.
It's a shame - when you're getting silently screwed because life gets in the way of you noticing. - raid517, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Soon I won't be able to hum a ***** tune in my head without the RIAA wanting a slice....
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12The latter outnumbers the former exponentially, unfortunately.
- briguyd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I just got this email form IPAction.org and was looking for the blog link to post it, but you got to it first.
Heres the actual bill: http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat051606.html
Start calling the people on that list so we can stop this, at least until next year where we can be prepared better to fight it. - Namco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13How does a human with that level of cognative ability actually register an account, digg stories, and land the first comment on a political story like this. I say it's an act. BRAVO MARCO!!!!
- radu79, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16"mebe if u her butt it in ur ear u mite here"
I guess it would translate into: "Maybe if you hear about it with your ears, you might hear."
Which, doing some wide extrapolations, might mean: "Maybe if you personally hear about it, you might care". I just assume this is what he meant, but other translations are possible. - dave_colorado, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@radu
i've thought about "open source" music as well. it's an interesting idea and i think that some artists would definitely be interested.
the main difference i see is that open source software can sell support so the developers can put food on the table, but music doesn't have the same option.
at the end of the day, even musicians who want to be part of an open-source movement still want to have a large audience and food on the table.
so the idea of free distribution is flawed, i think. however, a new *IAA could be formed. a much more open one. but it would still have to charge for music.
i don't have a problem paying for music personally. the problems i have with the RIAA are DRM, lawsuits, and screwing artists. it'd be sweet if there was an alternative. but i think it would be relegated to the backburner like organic food is in the supermarket. center stage belongs to those who have the means to put their products there. - r04dki11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9What about the "incidental" copies that are created in memory, filesystem, cpu when being played in your favorite media player?
- Rosco, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10No, it's not an act, I just looked up every story he's commented on. Marco is a blithering idiot, every story he has posted on is about the same, and every response is a "WTF?" Except for one, where he's bitching about his previous account getting removed.
- microphony, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6That's not the actual bill. That's the copyright office's overview and concerns about the actual bill. If you read through, there are some things the copyright office agrees with and some things it disagrees with. Here's their overall opinion:
"Although there are undoubtedly many drafting subtleties to be vetted and logistical issues to be addressed or referred to the regulatory process, the Office supports the fundamental concepts on which the SIRA is based."
So if you're going to contact your congressperson, make sure to emphasize that the bill needs a lot of work before it's ready for law, and many of the music industry's recommendations will harm consumer freedom.
from trailofmiles - Winters, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6What we really need is a law that settles the fair use issue once and for all. A law that actually gives consumers rights over the crap they buy. When is the last time we had a law that gave us right? It's been a while. All the laws now just seem to restrict our rights.
Anyway, the *IAA tries this about once a month. They try to sneak it in here and there. It's really sad how much influence they have over our policymakers. The only way to put an end to this is to create an unambiguous law that explicitly grants consumers rights to use their stuff. - briguyd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Or tell them that the bill is rubbish and should never have been brought up in the first place.
- jhuebel, on 10/12/2007, -16/+22Um... WTF did you say?
- drag, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"""I am part of a successful game development team, currently having a somewhat successful MMO game, which is pretty much free. There are other indie games out there, many of them free as well. Soon, it is my hope, the quality and availability of the free stuff will be on par with the commercial releases."""
Software are Art/Media are two major different things. And doing 3d animation is very very difficult.
For instance the Elephant's Dream is about 11 minutes long. It took a team of artists 7 months to complete it. And that's not just on their spare time. They worked together, got up in the morning, started working on it until they went to bed. 7 hard months.
And that's not including rendering and whatnot. That happenned after they finished.
Also it's only practical if you actually work with the people your working with. Dozens, maybe hundreds of 'short stories' style movies have been started on the internet with people trying to work from IRC channels and whatnot. Every single one failed. Not one success.
With software you can have a team of individuals working rather independantly. Each works on a peice and contributes codes and patches that can be incorporated and tested in a rather ad-hoc manner. Once your done with the code you can re-use it, over and over again.
For instance say I put a impovement into GCC compiler. Then any program that uses that compiler can potentially benifit from it. And people can keep doing that over and over again as GCC progresses through it's lifetime. That's one of the reasons that open source software can work so well.
With Art I spend 3 years to make a movie and that's it. Movie is done. That's all you have to show for it. You may be able to use clips from that movie, or re-use some models or whatnot.... but that's it. There is a artistic style and a continuity that is required for good animation. You can't just re-use old parts.. it all has to fit and be custom made.
That sort of thing requires a lot of time, money, and effort from a team of individuals to create a item that has essentially no re-use factor. Other people can't just come in and contribute a bit here or there, it would be a disaster.
What people can do from the OSS model is contribute stock textures, stock models, stock footage. Freely reusable music and sound effects. Work on improving the software, increasing the capabilities and such. Work on documentation, provide a sort of education/training system for new artists. This sort of thing can help considurably lessenning the cost of media creation and help things considurably.. but it will never be like what is done with Linux or any other large software project. Art is art and software is software. Two different things. - radu79, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6As I said, a distributed rendering system, a la SETI@ home, where every computer renders one frame, can be done. Then people will just download that client, which will use their idle time to render frames. A movie has about 100K frames, so with 100K computers, each taking 5 hours to render a frame, you could render a movie in less than a day.
- OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@ aupton
Americans won't figure out what is wrong with government until they start throwing soccer Moms in federal prison for using their iPod in thier SUVs. - there, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@actorboy
"You're not talking about freedom of expression, you're talking about freedom to watch other people's freedom of expression, which you already have as long as you agree to the their terms."
Really? Personally I think your decoyed by the seeming harmlessness of that statement, I don't think you've thought through your logic to conclusion completely. Everybody gets a start somewhere. These guys aren't going to stop asking for you to give up your rights in favour of their rights.
"You are free to express yourself as much as you wish... as long as you agree to my terms".
- S. Hussein, J.Stalin, A. Hitler, B.Mussolini, A Pinochet... - halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7LOL!!!
People are sheep. As long as Americans are fed and entertained, most won't care about anything that goes on until the moment the police are breaking down their door, or they get a bill for $60,000 for the songs on their iPod.
Politicians know people are sheep and as a result, are doing all they can to help their corporate backers rape the sheep like a drunken Scotsman on Saturday night. - JorgeGT, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Are there any way to get the parent deleted??
- quakefiend, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5pick up your pitchforks and revolt!
- radu79, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@dave
There is actually a way for the indie artists to make money.
We make money from our MMO by offering some special items for sale (those items can be obtained in the game as well, but they are rare).
Now, the artists can do the same thing: Offer a 128 Kbps album, for free. Then if you want the high quality, 320 Kbps version, or a CD, then you have to pay the artist. Similarly, they can offer Tshirts, and perhaps even some concerts.
If they become very popular, then I am sure they will be contracted by various companies to make songs for their games, movies, etc. - halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Dude, that's a public performance!
You'd better be humming that tune someplace that has a cabaret license, or you're going to have to foot the bill yourself. - ryllharu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4We really don't need to worry about this in the first place. Thanks to Frist's political ambitions, the Amendment to Ban Gay Marriage will keep the whole Congress bickering for the week. It'll squash all the things that need to be talked about (Iraq war, economy, all this stuff) so they can fight over something incredibly stupid that will never pass.
Write the comittee members anyway though. - halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Because they want you to, and because they can buy off the congress critters to make it law.
Remember, as far as they're concerned, you don't own the song, or even the media. You have a license to listen to a CD in a CD player. Anything else they're "letting" you do is happening because you're stealing from them and they can't stop you.
At least that's how the *AA sees it. - Leetful, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Why? Soccer moms in jail would end all violent video game controversy, as well as rid the world of most who fundamentally don't understand technology.
- SkeletaLlama, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This is insane. If what they're saying is true I would have to pay to stream my iTunes music through my Airport Express to my stereo system. Where's the loss to the RIAA if I stream my own music through my own network through my own stereo, all of which I have already paid for? Why should I pay for that?
- trialofmiles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That's not the actual bill. That's the copyright office's overview and concerns about the actual bill. If you read through, there are some things the copyright office agrees with and some things it disagrees with. Here's their overall opinion:
"Although there are undoubtedly many drafting subtleties to be vetted and logistical issues to be addressed or referred to the regulatory process, the Office supports the fundamental concepts on which the SIRA is based."
So if you're going to contact your congressperson, make sure to emphasize that the bill needs a lot of work before it's ready for law, and many of the music industry's recommendations will harm consumer freedom. - dWhisper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4When, pray tell, has our government ever worked for us? Pick up a history book, and read through the various scandals, conflicts, and bills they've put forward. Sure, there are a few general examples of outstanding politicians that move to do work, and most at one point and time honestly cared about their constituents...
But ultimately, they're concerned about protecting the interests of the areas they control, be it their city, their congressional district, their state, or their country. They answer to the oil that greases the wheels of our society, and for America, that's big business (blame capitalism if you like). - stonebear, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"AH CRAP, DICK! The Gay marriage distraction isn't working! What are we going to tell the RIAA? They paid good money for this!"
- dave_colorado, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3OK so artists can make a few bucks selling albums at higher qualities, plus merchandising...i'll agree with that.
but i can't as far as movies go. you were talking about computer so powerful it takes only days to render...not months like it did for shrek. those computers have got to cost millions of dollars. they have to be paid for somehow.
i don't disagree with the concept...i like it. there are just a lot of hurdles and i don't think an open source movement can navigate through all of them... - aupton, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5When will Americans of today learn that the government once worked for the people, not the other way around like it is today? We need to unite and demand that ***** like this gets put down. We need to get back to the days where the government asked the people that brought it to power for permission to pass this laws with hidden kick back agendas. If we continue on this path then the American dream is truly over.
Remember we out number the government! - halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It gives your local version of the *AA ideas.
It also gives them a test case. If it works in the US, you won't be far behind. Fair use is on the way out. It interferes with corporate profits, and therefore must be destroyed. - thatcoolrushguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hopefully enough senators own Ipods.
- shiftless, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I gave up on music that you have to pay for long ago. Listen to free netlabels, support independant bands, listen to podcasts. There's so much free content out there if you look. I honestly cannot keep up with all that is produced and distributed for free.
- radu79, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@shoveler
Maddox makes a decent amount of money from his website, selling Tshirts and other small things. Now he is writting a book, and will make a lot of money from it. It's a best seller on Amazon.
A good artist can do the same, and live well.
@drag
You are right. Models and animations can't be reused in the same manner the code can be reused. On the other hand, GCC code can be reused only for GCC, and some compilers. It can't be used, say, for a web server.
The artists can also make a sequel to that movie, where they can reuse a lot of the previous textures, models, scenes and animation. And just like the code, those models and textures will not fit well in other movies. - tranix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Politicians will pass Anything for Campaign Donations (ie. bribes). Why not solve the problem: ban all donations and make campaigns publicly funded. Sure it would cost, but what's the cost of the current legalized bribery?
- tapo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@radu79: You might want to take a look at BURP http://burp.boinc.dk/
- trialofmiles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Here's another part of the Copyright Office's summary that is important.
"The SIRA establishes a royalty-free rate for the making of server and other intermediate copies necessary to facilitate noninteractive webcasting. ... However, we believe that a less burdensome and equally effective approach would be to grant a statutory exemption for this activity."
It seems to me doing what the Copyright Office is suggesting would solidify fair use for intermediate copies. - SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@actorboy
The bill is not yet available, but apparently someone warned IPAC about it. Now a bill being introduced in such a way that the very active online community knows nothing about it until days before it's to be considered. That makes any number of mental alarms go off in my head.
What is available for reading now is just how the copyright office presents the bill. I'll trust their word the day after my lobotomy. - actorboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ there
I've thought through my logic completely. As an actor, the MPAA is trying to make sure I get paid when you enjoy my work. That means that the MPAA is protecting my rights, while it's you who violate them.
Seriously, if you'd like to have a real discussion about the merits or lack-thereof regarding copyright and/or copyright reform, I'd be glad to join you. But everytime you jump to the Orwellian, fascist, communist, end-of-human-rights stuff, you lose me. Stop spreading FUD. Come up with workable solutions instead of playing to the crowd. - streetstealth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Short of open source, what's to happen to Creative Commons?
Here's what makes me shudder a thousand shudders: Would this bill "require" CC licensors to track what they make available, thus legally coercing them into DRM prostitution?
Would MP3 and OGG become effectively illegal? - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat051606.html
More from the bill:
"The SIRA establishes a royalty-free rate for the making of server and other intermediate copies necessary to facilitate noninteractive webcasting. As the Register of Copyrights has previously testified,(10) intermediate copies made in the course of streaming a licensed public performance of a musical work should be subject either to an exemption or to a statutory license." -
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