What is Digg?83 Comments
- maexus, on 12/03/2007, -1/+50Very cool if they can get different tracker admins to work together like this.
- KevinWhite, on 12/03/2007, -3/+43Now all they need is a throttle-proof BitTorrent client
- Spanktacular, on 12/03/2007, -1/+38Which is more important? A dedicated user base with all the l33t kids and shiny graphics, or you and your users never going to jail?
- badenglishihave, on 12/03/2007, -1/+31If I understand this article correctly they expect several private trackers to work together. From what I have seen as a member of a couple private trackers, most take a personal pride in content only available at their site. As such, I'm not sure how many trackers will be willing to participate in this.
For example, let's say you have four sites that share the same content and userbase. If one site's layout is particularly superior to the other three, that site will get all the traffic while the other three will be neglected. - missingnoh4x, on 12/03/2007, -0/+28Let me know when they come up with an anti-Comcast tracker.
- albiniak, on 12/03/2007, -1/+22It would be tough to get private trackers of the same genre (ex. waffles + what) to work together, but this would make sense across categories.
- RichLatherX23, on 12/03/2007, -1/+20So does anyone have invites for bacon.org or eggs.com? Heck, I'll even take one for sausage.fm so long as it's not meant for gay porn.
- Bhima, on 12/03/2007, -1/+14Or the system where the users ratio and reputation does disappear overnight. I've been really frustrated with overly self-important private trackers since OiNK went away. I know what what I want from a tracker and Hydra sounds more like it.
- missingnoh4x, on 12/03/2007, -2/+14Dugg up to be controversial.
- angedinoir, on 12/03/2007, -1/+12I know you might have been excited about one of the comments above alluding to having gay porn on there, sorry to disappoint.
- Monk22, on 12/03/2007, -0/+10usenet=money
- Vektuz, on 12/03/2007, -0/+10I don't see how this helps. The recording industry cronies tend to just sit on the tracker just like everyone else, with modified CLIENTS, not tracker servers. They collect IPs and there's no way to change that, because in order to share a file with someone, you have to connect to them directly, so they will have your IP.
This makes the network of trackers more robust, I suppose, but it does not protect downloaders, and does not protect the individual admins. - inactive, on 12/03/2007, -0/+7FU too.
- arcooke, on 12/03/2007, -1/+8"I run a Tor server. You can't prove anything."
Done and done. - Emachine, on 12/03/2007, -1/+8So it's an anti-anti-piracy tool. LoL.
- djbon2112, on 12/03/2007, -0/+6Use Monolith and distribute the basis file?
http://monolith.sourceforge.net/ - WhereAmI, on 12/03/2007, -1/+6They work together more than you think. They aren't against each other, there's no competition.
- Vektuz, on 12/03/2007, -1/+6Unfortunately the recording industry counts how many pieces of the file were given to how many persons. Because its a copyright violation to give any part of a copyright work to someone else. They don't care about share ratio. If 20,000 people are in the swarm and your client gives bits of the file out to half of those people, thats 10,000 copyright violations, regardless of the amount copied.
Of course, WE know its ludicrous. But the recording industry lawyers choose their juries really carefully - essentially, anyone with any kind of knowhow is discarded. So the jury just hears "he gave out pieces of songs to 10,000 people". - jtmeyer, on 12/03/2007, -0/+4You're right to point out that there are two main problems facing the community: raids and ip-snatching. It takes legislation or stealth to help with the raids, and THP is about stealth. As for ip-snatching, we can take individual steps to protect our identities. there are lots of options, a particularly easy one is shelling out less than ten bucks a month for a VPN tunnel like relakks (there are free ones too.
- postalblowfish7, on 12/03/2007, -1/+4what?
- suinmind, on 12/03/2007, -0/+3"bacon.org, eggs.com, ham.net"
it should be called OMELETTE project. - laelfrog, on 12/03/2007, -0/+3FTA: The tracker script is developed in Ruby on Rails. “The code is about 90% there,”
So they are half done huh?
http://dsingleton.co.uk/archive/programming-quotes ... -> 'The first 90% of the code accounts for the first 90% of the development time. The remaining 10% of the code accounts for the other 90% of the development time.' - sbraford, on 12/04/2007, -1/+4Hey guys, developer of the Hydra Project here. To answer a few questions --
* Does the tracker send a list of IPs to peers (via /announce)? Yes, of course. This is part of the BitTorrent protocol. If MPAA / whoever becomes a member of the torrent site and sniffs out peer IPs, this is impossible to stop in *any* tracker.
However, some of the existing tracker codebases (vanilla, unmodified) stored the last IP address (+ time) for every single one of its users that connected (in the MySQL database). If that server got raided, it would be trivial to go back to the ISPs and associate these users with a cable modem / home address. (perhaps wrongfully, as the RIAA suing grandmothers has shown)
Is THP more secure than this? Yes. Is it immune? No -- that's impossible in direct P2P. (users can take precautions but if they use their home ISP, then their home IP Address must be shared with others to initiate xfers)
* Will this actually work in practice? I don't know. It's a fun proof of concept. It's up to private torrent site admins to decide if they'd like to try this out in the wild. - KraftDinner101, on 12/03/2007, -0/+3STMusic, SuperTorrents
- KraftDinner101, on 12/03/2007, -1/+4I beg to differ. There are many sites that are actually owned by the same person but offer widely different things, each of which maintain separate ratios for their users. Something like this could offer more features to their users.
- carpespasm, on 12/03/2007, -0/+3not when your ISP throttles you for anything that uses the line too much for more than a few seconds.
- angedinoir, on 12/03/2007, -2/+4The bit-torrent protocol protects downloaders and uploaders. If your following the news, there are serious questions to the actual amount of infringing going on. With limewire, the file could have been shared 100+ times before it was taken offline. Bit-torrent is different. At most, a typical bit-torrent user will share the file 3 times. More typically, this would be around 1.5 times. I think this would stand in court to limit the amount of the fines.
- shark72, on 12/03/2007, -1/+3This is interesting. Tracker sites have tended to have a "look the other way" policy with regard to content: they put up the tracker, and if their users just HAPPEN to use it to trade pirated materials, then that's not the fault of the site operator. Now, tracker site operators are finally acknowledging what everybody already understands: yes, they're doing it for the good stuff, and not the Linux distros and other edge-condition examples that people use when completing the sentence "but BitTorrent can ALSO be used for...".
The interesting thing is that this makes it even harder for P2P fans to employ the "b-b-but it's just like GOOOOOOOOGLE!" defense when their favorite tracker goes down. Memo to tracker operators: when you're thinking of implementing something called "Hydra" to keep the goodies flowing when the copyright owners come knocking, you're not "just like Google." - spritom, on 12/03/2007, -0/+2Then we might end up with a Sony-Philips tracker vs a Toshiba tracker.
- onispawn, on 12/03/2007, -0/+2Its called a Trace Buster Buster.
- Canute, on 12/04/2007, -0/+2I wonder if that argument would actually hold in court though
- Anonymous3, on 12/04/2007, -0/+2The argument would come down to the court's definition of derivative work, the copyright holder would argue your simple point of "the copyrighted work was used to create another file = derivative" omitting the part about the derivative needing to use the 'actual sounds' vs. what the defendant would argue: i.e. the argument on the page near the end that cites US Copyright Code Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 114, Part B: "The exclusive right of the owner of copyright in a sound recording under clause (2) of section 106 is limited to the right to prepare a derivative work in which the actual sounds fixed in the sound recording are rearranged, remixed, or otherwise altered in sequence or quality".
The copyright holder's argument theoretically breaks down when they try to claim the new file breaks copyright even though no 'actual sounds' from their work can be heard (the 'copyrighted work.mp3 ⊕ some other copyrighted basis file.wav = some .mono file' process outputs garbage in the sense that it is not an audio format that can be heard). I'm pretty sure the average person picked for jury duties would accept argument A though, given that it seems simple and intuitive. - alexanEmpire, on 12/03/2007, -2/+4Ask, and you shall recieve......now bend over!
- mcgarry83, on 12/03/2007, -1/+3"Dont mention usenet and no one will know what it is?" Are you kidding me?
- friend18, on 12/03/2007, -1/+3It's about time. One of my biggest concerns with bittorent is the lack of security when downloading. Anyone can see your IP. There needs to be an anonymous system.
- djbon2112, on 12/03/2007, -0/+2Give me a free Usenet and bingo. Until then, NTY.
- djbon2112, on 12/03/2007, -0/+2Mr. RIAA? Is that you?
- inactive, on 12/04/2007, -0/+2I believe that there will be many willing to do this. It improves anonymity and provides fault tolerance. It sounds much like freenet, though designed more for file transfers.
I am happy to see people finally making something like this. While I don't use Bittorrent for things other than downloading CentOS updates; it should improve the overall security and privacy of people on the internets. I have asked for this for some time now. https://www.microchp.org/privacy/
There are already site admins that run trackers in the currently open and non private methods. This means that most likely the number of trackers will increase. As long as this project makes it difficult for a rogue tracker joined into the group to compromize everyones security, then I think it is a good idea. The flaw would be if it allowed one rogue node to gather all the data that the other nodes had in an unencrypted form.
I hope that the authors look at the freenet project and solve all of the weaknesses ahead of time that the freenet project exposed. - HerbSolo, on 12/04/2007, -0/+2plus it would be pretty pointless.
if you connect via a central server, and it forwards every bit of data you send to another client, it could as well just go ahead, host the files, and save itself the trouble of getting it uploaded from you. - unyuzyall, on 12/03/2007, -1/+3torrentfreak has a very short article/advertisement for an anonymizer. Anyone care to comment, or have alternative suggestions?
- redxxx, on 12/04/2007, -0/+1Aren't the first two rules of Usenet to talk about it constantly as if it is not a ***** alternative to p2p?
- Drizzit, on 12/03/2007, -0/+1I like the idea of this. I was looking into the possibility of redoing how websites are published and served on the personal level. You mix up something like coralcache and torrents and the possibilities become pretty interesting. Imagine your website is really a big swarm and your PC contains peices of many websites and serves up those peices as long as it's connected to the web. It's the perfect solution to countries who try to suppress the word of their people when taking down their internet connection will fail to stop the message from being seen since this would essentially give the internet a memory.
- edicius, on 12/04/2007, -0/+1You're sorry there isn't gay porn?
- sancho, on 12/04/2007, -0/+1I don't really see how this improves anonymity. If anything, it makes it worse. Now the weakest link (tracker in the country with the strongest IP laws) will get all of the user accounts and IP addresses of everyone.
- redxxx, on 12/04/2007, -0/+1eh.. without using a proxy of some sort, folks sending you pieces of a file still need to know your IP address to get the packets to you. This doesn't fix that. They still can sit a tracker in swarm and just log IPs. This doesn't fix that.
This sets you up with an extra bit of information that could be tracked, and would tie you to multiple .torrents and trackers. I have a hard time seeing this as not, potentially, making things less safe. - jtmeyer, on 12/05/2007, -0/+1no. thieves steal things, they don't just copy them and let their "victims" keep all their stuff.
i'm talking about the people who care about music the most, that community. - redxxx, on 12/04/2007, -0/+1Apparently, he loves *****.
- inactive, on 12/05/2007, -0/+1I believe that is one of the issues I brought up in the comments that you just replied to. ;-)
- counterplex, on 12/03/2007, -0/+1Amazing stuff. I'm surprised this hasn't been used within the "community" (of thieves as cliffski put it further up the comment chain). Anyone can get the standard Basis file that is in the public domain. Now it's a matter of downloading the Mono file which is not copyrighted by anyone other than the original creator. Someone please start doing this. I'd be interested in what happens to the (RI|MP)AA when this goes live.
- djbon2112, on 12/12/2007, -0/+1He mentions this at the bottom of the sourceforge page, it seems like the usage would be ruled OK.
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