What is Digg?36 Comments
- BMW7Series, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11#12. Starbucks always needs more employees.
- DJWaz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8number 2 and 6 are the only ones valid across the board
I hold a film degree and i'm moving TVs for an electronics store and can't pay the bills.
There are ways to make film school work but you need to know them ahead of time and plan before you start.
First, research the program. The program i went to didn't help me at all to get a career. I wish i had done a different one. Most importantly, go to a program that combines theory and pratical hands on filmmaking. You prolly think "duh.. who wouldn't do that" well Keene State College wouldn't do that. Theory and production were seperate tracks with the same core of six classes. Check out how many grads from a program have gone on to do cool things. That's how you can get professional contacts. If the only thing done by a grad from a school's program that you can actually find is writing the script for a cheezy 80s sci fi movie.. you might want to look elsewhere. Check out things like job placement too. And don't go to New Hampshire. No one but film students make movie in New Hampshire and you'll be lucky if they give you a beer in exchange for work.
Second.. have an assload of money. For a basic core production class that was done on super 8 film.. i had to spend 500 bucks out of pocket. I had no credit cards or anything like that. I wasn't being given a free ride by mommy and daddy. The higher end production classes at my school cost over a thousand dollars out of pocket. And if you're in a class that's making a full length movie, you don't have time to be working a full time job and going to all your classes.
Third.. don't go to New Hampshire. I said that already but it bears repeating.
/cynisism off
There are good things about film school. And college helps people adjust to real life. But having been made very cynical by the whole process i wish i had just taken all those student loans and just bought my own equipment and made a movie. I'd be making more money now just by using the equipment to freelance things like cheezy wedding videos (you know there are people that'll pay over a thousand dollars for one of those.. that's one weekend of work for a thousand bucks!!) For less than the cost of one year at a good film school, you can have your own equipment, freelance during the week and have fun on the weekends. Unless you're effing loaded, 99% of film students aren't going to be able to afford that because the sad state of affairs is that higher education is too damn expencive and you really just need to take the best of both worlds here. - JoeNick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5 @23r17i05o42n
How many film students have you met? Do you think your limited interaction with them reallly speaks for film students as a whole? Most the film kids I met in school were supreme douch-tools as you say, but the minority who were humble and focused were been probably the smartest people I met in college. - paragonconcept, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Film school doesn't mean you'll turn into a douchebag; the way you live determines that. Same with success"
excellent comment :D - sych0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm actually attending a film school myself, and live in new hampshire.
Except the school is in san francisco ;) (starts in a few months)
None of the schools here ever even crossed my mind. - neszis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2As a guy who goes to film school, I'd say that both articles are pretty well-informed. The most important one really was number 10: you have it or you don't. People learn in different ways, in different environments. Film school doesn't mean you'll turn into a douchebag; the way you live determines that. Same with success.
I'm lucky to go to one of the top film schools in the nation, and I feel like my future is secure, and I've learned so much more than I'd ever expected to know about it - and I still have another two years left. Luckily, I'm not spending extra money on the courses than on any 4-year degree (it's about $1500 per semester), and they provide 100% of our budgets. So, a lot of the "reasons not to go" don't apply. - climbon321, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3How good the points are from the perspective of a film (well ok, video production) grad (Ithaca College)
1. Peer Connections
I would say possibly the most important. The connections I made in school have helped immensely and gotten me work.
2. Industry connections.
Also a great point. My school helped me get an internship in the industry which lead to contact and multiple jobs
3. Technical know-how.
How much you'll learn depends on how much you know going in, but I had access to learn Avid, FCP, cameras, lighting, sound, ect.
4. Intelligent feedback
Professors and fellow students are great tolls to use to help make your work stronger
5. Mentors to push you
Depends on the quality of professors at the school. I was fortunate enough to have a professor push a group of students and myself to do national award winning work. Not everyone is as lucky.
6. History and theory
This you can get from a book on Amazon
7. Credibility
It doesn't hurt to have a college degree, but I also know I've gotten plenty of work without an employer even looking to see if I went to school or not, just that I can do the work.
8. Time for your projects
Huge point. Only real downside being deadlines which for most works, as soon as it is due, the student stops working on it.
9. Stay the course
We had many more people transferring into our communications program than leaving it before graduation.
10. You either have it or you don't
For the most part, although I know people who don't have it that will make a decent living in the industry. - bowiestyle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2sounds like you went to a bad film school. I get nearly all the 16mm i can use up at mine. Plus the school refunds half of our budgets if we present them with receipts. (Columbia College Chicago)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you know what you want to get out of a film school (yes, you'll discover more things along the way) then you can get a ton of good experiences out of almost any program. I went to San Francisco State because I was really interested in experimental film and SFSU is the home of the experimental film. The student strike in '68-'69 put that campus on the CSU *****, though, and funding was essentially frozen for that campus until the late 90's. The film program is ill-equipped, under-funded and over-crowded. Still, I felt like persistence and knowing what I wanted out of the program got me through it with a lot of positive experiences. And working through adversity has put me in the right frame of mind to work on the independent film projects that I'm doing. I'd never be as self-confident and determined if I hadn't gone through the film program at a decent film school.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3He forgot the #1 reason: Adorable film school geek girls.
- tobsterius, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2As someone who is planning on attending grad school for film(I'm applying to basically the top 5, wish me luck) my undergrad degree is in broadcasting and video production. And man, I'm so glad I decided to go that route. I love film, I love movies, but spending all that money to get a BFA in film and then risking the chance of not working in the film business scared the crap out of me. It's such a specialized degree, and not everyone is going to be the next Scorese(believe me, i've seen a lot of student films... they shouldn't be doing this.)
One part of me is saying, forget grad school(NYU, UCLA, USC etc are *expensive*) and get go get a job as a PA and bust my ass. Maybe even write a script, figure out a way to get funding, hire some actors and just go for it. By actors, I actually mean real actors, not my friends. You'll be surprised how cheap new actors will work for just to get the credit(especially ones that just graduated with acting degrees.) But the other part of me is saying "the more education I have, the better off I'll be." I'll do everything in my power to get a chance to make movies, but hell if that doesn't work out, I have my undergrad degree fall back on.
So I guess my recommendation(and opinion) is this: I personally don't think its wise to major in film as your undergrad, if you want to do that, fine, more power to ya, and I wish you luck. Major in something that can guarntee you a job. Now I'm not saying major in business or biology. Media Arts and broadcasting allows you to be just as creative in your projects than you'd think. Personally, I did a lot of script writing, shooting shorts films and other stuff that allowed me to really go nuts. Sure I had to do some basic things, like interviews and news packages, but even with those, I found ways to be really creative. The last thing you want is a film degree and then end up selling insurance. For me it was broadcasting and video production. I still get to be creative and I love what I do. But I always wanted a film degree, and I always wanted to make movies. So that's where grad school comes in. Expensive? yes. Worth it? I hope so. If it doesn't work out, the worse thing that can happen is that I teach.
Anyway, just my two cents. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I enjoy living in Scotland where all University tuition fees are paid by the Government for us.
- darkstar949, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2For those that were not able to catch the first half of the article - http://www.dvguru.com/2006/10/11/10-reasons-you-shouldnt-go-to-film-school/
And the ensuring debate - http://digg.com/design/10_reasons_you_shouldn_t_go_to_film_school - videoCT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1In almost every career track, college gives you fundamental knowledge and critical thinking skills. On the job training gets you skills for life. If you go to film school, make sure to take some non-film courses - which most liberal arts schools require you to do.
- Oxygen, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4# 11. Chicks Digg Film Makers!
- nogoodreason, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm in my second year of a film degree. The course consists of being given a camera, access to an editing machine, and being told to 'play with them until you work out how they work'. I've been asked to supervise several lessons because I know more about Avid than the tutors.
I want to go to wherever the hell this guy got his perception of film school from... - superpixel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Good counterpoint to last week's argument!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No, we have to pay a relatively small "graduate endowment" of around £2000 (USD$3500-4000) within a year of completing the course. All other fees are paid by the Government for us. That's EVERY Scottish student studying at a Scottish University. I guess it's an incentive to stay in the country.
- paragonconcept, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2i goto art school in San Francisco. And yes, 75% of the students i goto school with are stoner, slacker, losers. However, there are a ton of very dedicated people in our program. I'm a computer arts, new media major, so i can't speak to much for the film program, but i assume it's pretty similar. Art / Film school is only what you make of it, if you put the time in, and you have talent, then you will excel. If you just get by, and don't care about what you do, then you will fail.
- uppedbyhiggins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1oh snap I go to Keene State as a film major...so you're telling me I'm doomed?
- Sil369, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Do you have to pay them back +interest after you finish your studies?
If not, I hate you. - uppedbyhiggins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually the film program at KSC has undergone some immense renovation (a nice new Media Arts Center). Though there are different classes, both theory and production, they aren't "different tracks". Production majors still take theory courses, and Critical Studies majors take them as well. Either you went here a long time ago, or you haven't looked into the program fully (or you were expecting NYU's Tisch, even though the school is like 14,000$ in-state, which to me [and my parents] is a great deal).
- atezun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I'm not saying that you'll come out of school with your sights set on being a writer/director and somehow end up becoming an air traffic controller"
Wow, that hit a little too close to home.
Currently taking time off to save money to finish school and training to be an air traffic controller. - MiloMindrbindr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As a fine arts college drop out, I have to say that it all depends on the person. Some people need structure in order to be driven to work on projects, others find the structure counter-productive to their overall goals. I fell into the latter category and am now a producer with a production company with an animal who fancies a gate. I came up as a writer, getting a script picked up within 6 months of quitting school from a company that focus(es on) features. After a while, I wanted to learn what it was like making movies from the production side of the fence. So I scanned craiglist, mandy and entertainment careers and found a few PA jobs and internships and just worked my ass off, learning as much as possible and making friends with a lot of the people I worked with. Within a year I was a full time producer with a production company. From my experience, it just depends on how hard you work. Hard work is revered and rewarded. Anyone who can't carry their weight, no matter how talented they are, will be out on their ass very quickly because it hampers productions and no one likes getting held up because someone can't hack it.
For writing/directing/acting it's the same thing. Learn the business from all aspects, because you can see a rube from 30 paces. I would recommend PA'ing on bigger movie sets (student films don't count, even the good school's student films are still student films) for anyone. It is so enlightening and humbling, you couldn't buy that knowledge. Plus you make a lot of connections if you work hard enough, because you'll definitely be noticed. - betona, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My high-school-age daughter who has talent with digital video wants to make a career in the film/TV world so we're looking at film schools. I used to work for a division of Time Warner and saw the many jobs that Warner Brothers and HBO have, so I know there's a real career for people who understand it's a business.
Advice most welcome -- I have engineering and business degrees so my experience with film is on the business end of a bucket of popcorn.
thomleidner, your 4 skills apply to any business; especially the first two. Your other comments are intriguing. - atezun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1film school that is
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I want to get a degree in Internet Surfing with a minor in Recreational Drugs, anyone know of a good program that will get me a job? No, I can't afford Yale.
- nzjrs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1#13 So you can use the word protagonist instead of "main character" and sound more intelligent
- thomleidner, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am a member of the Director's Guild of America. I've been in the industry since 1992 doing everything from agent (literary), Development, production, locations, set construction, prop master, PA, producer to now an Assistant Director (and no, I don't get directors coffee). I have worked on every type of medium; $200+ million action films (Joel Silver blow-em-ups), quasi-art films (FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS), tv series (The Pretender), low budget features (VULGAR), hundreds of commercials, music videos, direct response infomercials (Richard Simmons - yikes!) and everything else in between.
In all these years I have met four or five people who would say film school was worth the time and most certainly not worth the $$$ (they went to USC, NYU and AFI). I had only 2 semesters of film studies and dropped out of college because I started getting work. In all of these years no one has EVER asked about my education when hiring me.
the most important skills you need are:
- Show-up on time or even better show-up early to work
- Stay late without bitching
- DON'T KILL or INJURE ANYBODY!
- Have good stories/bs to tell while waiting around set
follow these magic 4 and you will have a long, wonderful career. - mos6507, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I went to film school (Emerson College) and felt it was a huge waste of money. Since school was in MA, I didn't get any valuable industry connections, despite a summer internship in Los Angeles. I think the most jobs in the film business do not require "artistes". They require TRADESMEN. There are skills to acquire, but a high-priced college is not required to gain them. Only a select few individuals are going to be your directors and DPs and such. Most of the jobs are not that far removed from a bricklayer (moving lights around and putting down gaffer's tape) and there is a small chance of ever becoming anything more than that.
- khrome, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You sound like you must be a teacher. College teaches herd mentality, from my experience... even when you are learning good technique. If you don't think critically naturally, no amount of instruction will ever fix that.
- khrome, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I went to a Video program that lied and said they were opening a film department the following year. After 2 years I switched to Computer Science at a completely different school. I think in an industry where there is plenty of money and accolades to be had, the addage "Those who can do, those who can't teach" is more true than most industries. Most of the faculty spent their time talking about their former career and explaining the very most basic stuff about equipment. There was a panther dolly-cam, for instance, that no one could use, because non of the faculty knew how. I recommend not going to and art school, keep it in liberal arts. 8 years after I paid my 2 years of tuition the film program finally opened. Don't expect *any* help from faculty, they'll pull themselves out of acedemia long before they'll pull a student out. And stick to liberal arts schools, an art school is just a siren's song.
I was much better off in a CS program than that other school, anyway... I actually *learned* some things. - crimes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Too true, brother.
- jlowe64, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6@23r17i05o42n
Imagine a world without artist and film makers. Imagine a world without dreamers, up and coming artists and film makers.
I don't think you'd like what's created.
I don't believe in "junk degrees." It just depends on if you're able to deal with being a starving artist to be happy doing what you love. It all comes down to, If you don't think you can survive, do something else. If you think you can deal with it, go for it. - sketchstudios, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2this guy flip flops more than kerry. (ps: that was a joke. i voted for kerry myself)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -27/+10Every film student I ever met was just a slacker who wasn't smart enough to get a degree worth anything. It's sad that taxpayers have to support the media programs of state colleges.
Trust me Skippy, you aren't the next Tarantino.
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