What is Digg?Sponsored by Travelzoo
Take Advantage of Ridiculously Low Holiday Airfares view!
travelzoo.com - Flights $52 and up for Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Year. But move on it now.
153 Comments
- Gargot, on 10/12/2007, -7/+43The point is that modern wind turbines, with a blade-span about as wide as a modern airliner, are spinning extremely slowly and are less dangerous to birds than cars, skyscrapers.. Hell, they are probably not a lot more dangerous than trees in high wind.
- THMike, on 10/12/2007, -4/+33Air/water pollution and climate change are going to kill a lot more birds, and animals in general, than even the worse of windmills (the old models that were very small and spun very fast).
- dlvolk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32Windturbines don't kill birds.
I kill birds. - _skin_, on 10/12/2007, -4/+31Put wind turbines in new york and chicago near all of the pigeons they tell you not to feed. Two birds with one stone!
Power and a few dead pigeons. - nickaster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24I should have been more clear - the rate at which modern turbines spin is sufficiently low that bird deaths are trivial. The idea that wind turbines kill vast numbers of birds is a myth supported by data from some badly sited wind farms using technology from the 60s, and trumped up by anti-wind interests to get bird lovers upset.
- DefenderOrights, on 10/12/2007, -15/+34Well even if the windmills do kill a few birds its just evolution at work. The smart/well sighted birds wont fly into them now will they.
- hijinks, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21modern day wind turbines spin very very slow compared to the ones in southern cali. from the mid 70's that spin very fast.. Those kind of turbines are the ones that kill the birds and they are slowly being replaced. I live near a small modern wind plant and on really windy days the turbines are shut off cause they don't want them spinning too fast in case they break.
On a side note.. greenhouses and large windows kill more bird then windmills do.. so lets go out and protest new greenhouse being put up. My parents had a very large window in their family room like.. 5f x 5f.. and at least 1 bird a week would fly into it and die
Also the funny thing about the cape winds project is the off shore wind farm will be so far off see the people won't be able to see it.. their main issue from what I know is they don't want their nice ocean view ruined.. we need to give these people a choice.. either a wind farm.. or a nice coal burning plant - hijinks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18the turbines by me.. the rednecks would shoot the blades with their rifles.. they were always changing out the blades till they paid a few people to patrol the area
- prot0col, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19The bird died of natural causes. It ended up next to the tower....... I think that you need to write a story on how Glass Kills Birds. I have seen(and heard) many birds hit windows on buildings. I bet the glass companies are out to kill the birds! It is a conspiracy!
- shiftt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13how long before someone jacks the turbines?
- retral, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Ugh, it's not like a giant fan of death spinning at 1000rpm under it's own power pushing air around.. if a bird flies into a wind-turbine, it's probably about as stupid as a bird who flies into a brick wall.. :p
- LeviticusMky, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14A bird is more likely to run into a tree than a blade of a wind-plant.
These structures are not fast spinning death blades as anti-environmental entities would like you to believe. They spin slowly, and are placed in areas where there is little to no forestation to begin with, places where tree-dwelling birds are not wont to dwell. - THMike, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Cars also kills a very large amount of birds. Detroit hates birds! Spread the word!
- MrStylz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The largest killer of raptors in this country is _litter_. It may sound odd at first, but it is. These birds (owls, falcons, etc) prey on the rodents that eat the apple cores and other food scraps that get thrown out of cars. They learn that these rodents eat by roads, so they too eat by roads. Only when they swoop down at enourmous speeds, they don't bother looking around them, they are focused on thier prey, not the car about to hit them. You can apply this same principle to trying to hunt in a wind farm. A raptor flying into ANYTHING at 100mph will die, end of story.
According to PECO, when they build wind turbines, they study migration patters, mainly of raptors due to thier hunting style. In addition, other attempts to keep these birds away from turbines is creating tubed tops so that they cannot perch at the top and scout the area.
Anyway, my few cents. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Did you even read the article at all? Yes, they do kill birds, but that is not the point. The point is that turbines kill a relatively low amount of birds each year compared to cars/trucks/etc.
- kowgod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8A research team headed up by David Keith at the University of Calgary ( http://www.ucalgary.ca/~keith/ ) used computer models to show some, but minor negative impact on climate change even if we were to replace ALL electric generation with wind turbines, and even still, it was modeled to be far less severe than if we continued to rely on fossil fuel (oil, coal, natural gas) for power generation. See their research paper here: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~keith/papers/66.Keith.2004.WindAndClimate.e.pdf
Note, that's assuming we switched 100% to wind power for the entire globe! When they modeled more realistic wind power generation figures, it has nearly no climate effect.
In the end, it's all about power diversification. Nuclear, clean(er) coal, hydro, solar and wind... they're all better than most of what we have now.
(Read this, and lots of other good comments, at a related digg, here: http://digg.com/technology/Wind_Power_Becoming_Cheaper_Than_Conventional_Power#c1322896 ) - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9the power to drive civilization > some birds that failed at life
- Micrastur, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9It's a myth that's hard to crack because it's not a myth. It's not like the author was letting us know about a seriuos look into whether the myth was true or not, he gave us two pathetic points to consider:
1. Slow, massive blades couldn't possibly hurt even if the bird was dumb enough to hit one.
-OK, now you choose: which would you rather be hit by, a 40mph baseball, or 40mph truck. Mass hurts, even when slow. Plus, those blades are long, which means even at slow rpms, the tips are moving fast enough to chop the wings off of an eagle (which is how many of the carcasses are found).
2. The real enemies for birds (in general) are windows, cars, etc.
-There is no doubt that turbines aren't a problem for sparrows! But for hawks and eagles they are deadly!
Since hawks and eagles rarely hit windows, it's easy to see that wind turbines are the more deadly of the two by far.
Why should we care about sharing our windy passes with raptor's migratory routes?
-Because our ecosystem needs them like the US needs immigrant labor. They perform functions like keeping the vermin populations down (and thus keep vermin-spread disease at bay).
The birds will just evolve, right?
-Inevitably. But in what direction? Nature is like cooled glass. Given a long enough time, it can bend into almost any shape. But if bent too quickly, Nature shatters. If the birds fail to adapt, then we get to see what happens to the earth after letting a key component break.
And the bird flu is another problem that we should work to control, rather than use it as an excuse to ignore the turbine problem. - Hyperion, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11@DefenderOrights:
That's not evolution, that would be natural selection. - nickaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This is absolutely about technology, and the attempts by certain groups to derail critical progress.
- Yorn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Can't this same argument be applied to nuclear energy? Why aren't there more nuclear plants? Why are we so fearful of Cherynobol to this day?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8No, wind power works quite well as it is free, clean energy. It kills a very small amount of birds. So who cares if 2.3 birds per turbine per year gets splattered? Its better than using coal/oil for our power, which pollutes our atmosphere and kills way more birds than turbines.
- steger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7how do you deplete wind?
Maybe they should put it in tornado alley to reduce tornadoes. - THMike, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Well, saying they "don't kill birds" is shorthand for "the myth that they massively kill birds and are an evironmental problem is not true".
- chrish01, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6when will people realize that no single engery source is the right answer. just like all things in life, you need moderation. taking all from one area will do nothing but deplete a resource. using small amounts from everywhere will allow our resources to replenish while reducing a single point of failure.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Nick - good show - you have to be clear on this one! It seems to a myth that's hard to crack!
- daedalus779, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5they want to put some wind turbines in the green mountains here in vermont. people voted it down, quite frankly it would look really ugly.
- alphgeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4bryguy000,
You are incorrect in your assessment of the efficiency of wind turbines. Nothing like that amount of space is required to generate the energy to run a large city. 1500 Turbines spaced over a 20km^2 area would be sufficient to power a city of 5 million.
It would only take a 100km x 100km square of present-day solar cells to generate all the power currently used to run the PLANET ffs....not very much in the grand scheme of things.
PS my neighbour's CAT kills more birds per year than the average turbine. Why don't the greenies spend more effort banning cats? That I would support, I like birds. - l7productions, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This seems pretty obvious to me... the fact that the blades spin "slowly" is pretty clear the first time you see one of these things in action. I've actually seen birds fly around the blades in what I guess is a fun thing for them to do.
- spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I find it hard to believe that any way we generate power can be without environmental impact. With enough wind turbines in one place, wouldn't it be possible to disrupt the flow of the wind and cause changes to the climate?
Don't get me wrong, wind power rocks. It's just something I've thought about once or twice. I'd be interested to hear what other people have to say. - bryguy000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4And it is actually much safer and not as bad for the environment as most people think. One of the best means of power in my mind.
- joetek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Windshare did a study monitoring bird activities around our wind turbine in Toronto. Here are some of their findings:
* Local birds appeared to have adapted easily to the presence of the turbine and simply avoided it. (Page 3, paragraph 4)
* A Total of 22 species were noted flying near the turbine blades when in operation and at the height of the blades. (Page 6, paragraph 4)
* Canada Geese were close to the turbine on at least half the visits in the autumn and as many as 31 were seen foraging on the lawns below the turbine blades. (Page 5, paragraph 5)
Full report at:
http://www.windshare.ca/pdf/ExPlace_Bird_Report_03.pdf - nickaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think that's a good example of one of the few places that is probably NOT good for turbines. Horicon gets millions (correct me if I'm wrong) of migrating geese every fall and would indeed probably see problems. I think they should build a few there and see what happens, but 500+ turbines might be better located elsewhere - lake winnebago possibly.
- szelij, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Yeah it's just evolution at work. The smarter birds would now know not to go near the damn things! Just like how evolution works in human society-smart people know not to stick their finger into sockets.
- Web_Weasel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hawks will slam into windows when they are nesting. If they see their reflection they will attack it.
A couple of years ago we had a nest of hawks just outside my window at work. In the afternoons when the sun was just right they would fly into the windows thinking there was another hawk there.
And yes, a Red Tailed Hawk slamming into your window will scare the bejesus out of you. - rekka, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4In the UK the RSPB (a bird-protection charity) says 'Yes' to wind turbines. This is because they believe that the environmental advantage they bring outweighs the odd unlucky lost swan. I'm inclined to agree with them.
- Henwood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I want to double digg this to prove those fake neighbourhood "not in my back yard" wankers wrong! I would happily have a windmill in my back garden!
- tarzan271, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Ya just what we need, more ugly windmills. Anyone that has traveled over the Altamont Pass in California knows how ugly they are. Clean, yes, but nuclear produces MUCH more power and you don't need miles and miles of eyesores to power 1 city.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4They get there by cars that "run on self satisfaction". Can you guess what that was quoted from?
- lightningrod220, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The problem with wind power (like any form of power generation) is that we'll still be facing people who don't want them in their area, either due to appearance of these huge things in their back yard, or the fact that they may still believe the myth...
You'll never be able to sell everyone 100% on the idea of any particular source of energy. - alphgeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The Victorian (Australia) state Govt just rejected a major wind farm because of the risk that a SINGLE bird MIGHT die per year if hit by the turbine blades. Granted, it is a rare bird (orange bellied parrot, 200 remaining). Incidentally, over $10M has been spent on the parrot population over the last 5 years...so each of those scruffy, insignificant birds is worth $50K. This is the second major project that this bird has scuttled.
But I wonder whether the stinking, polluting coal burning power plants that currently power Victoria are better or worse for the birds in the long term - not to mention all the other life on the planet?
When I travel through the Latrobe valley where the coal generators are, the stench of burnt hydrocarbons is incredible. It can't be good for the children who live there. - Sofa_King_Jank, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6@hijinks
Are you serious? "...the rednecks would shoot the blades with their rifles" You just made my afternoon. - elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@hijinks:
Exactly why I propose that euthanasia should be more commonplace. - nickaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Heck yeah - I would love a micro turbine at my house. However most towns probably zone against it (very shortsighted in my opinion). It's possible, however, that bigger wind farms work out more efficiently, you can't put a giant turbine in your backyard unless that's a really big yard!
- sporktek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well, *I've* been waiting for them to disprove the myth that boat props kill dolphins.
- adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2A wind turbine project was proposed in Puerto Rico. As always, the misguided but well intentioned voice of the environmentalists defeated the voice of reason.
- nickaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I wouldn't want wind turbines to cover the globe either, but they're a critical piece of out energy future. I don't think Altamont is ugly either, actually I think it's kind of inspiring!
I'm open minded about nuclear, but the costs are really really high, and may not be worth it. This was dugg the other day - http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/04/how_many_wind_t.php Same website - sorry, don't have original link. - scblock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Farmers are generally in favor of leasing their land to turbines, as the lease money per acre is usually quite a bit higher than the proceeds from farming production. Additionally, the loss of usable land in a large project is generally rather small relative to the total project size. For instance a project that covers 1000 acres of land might only take 50-100 acres of land out of agricultural use.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Not to mention expensive to maintain.
- yish, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4the rumors of my being killed by a wind turbine are grossly exaggerated.
- bird. -
Show 51 - 100 of 153 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is