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77 Comments
- latova, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31The problem is the people who pay for it will have WGA phoning home and doing who knows what in the background when people who don't pay for it don't deal with that.
- trghpy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+30This is lawyer speak for...
"We know .net is slower than ***** so lets not talk about it" - alexcurpas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25Anyway, what is a "different machine"? Changing the CPU? The MoBo? Adding a HDD?
- WillDearborn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21The thing that pisses me off the most personally is the whole thing about not installing on more than 2 machines for the life of the license. I mean ***** I've installed XP countless times on like 4-5 different machines I've had over the years. I guess I would pay the $399 price tag if I could continue to do just that. Also, maybe I'm missing it but I haven't read anywhere if this means you can't reinstall on the same machine. Like say I just want to do a fresh install on the same machine. Is that ok? And what about ghost images? I would assume that I wouldn't be "installing it on a new device" if I used an image (which I do about once a month). I love windows and am really going to be dependent on Vista since DirectX 10 is exclusive, but man microsoft is starting to piss me off.
- jmgibson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23They'll get away with it because:
1) They will tie it up for years in court costing taxpayers millions and once a judgment is reached against them they will still not choose to comply
a) Because apparently they are above the law in the US and Internationally. Apparently Bill Gates and George Bush belong to the same country club
2) As you said, 90% of the people could care less (but I have been a tech and system administrator for years and believe a majority of that 90% should not even be allowed to touch a computer; For reasons I won't get into here)
3) And although I do not personally like Microsoft, their products or business practices, and as much as it pains me to say this: It is their product and they should be able to do whatever they want with it and license it however they choose.
The bright side: Maybe just maybe Vista will help to steer users, manufacturers and developers towards Linux and we may see better support, better games and better App development for it. Thank you Microsoft! - Sammy20, on 10/12/2007, -5/+243 solutions:
1. Piracy
2. Windows XP Sp2 + RyanVM update pack
3. Linux - jambarama, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24I want Microsoft to stamp out all Windows piracy, and I'm not a Microsoft fan (though I have to use Windows at work). No pirating Vista would drive more people to other OSes, and anything that gives alternatives more legitimacy, customers and developers is a good thing IMO.
Don't worry, this is just Microsoft openly fscking their customers with eulas, not much of a change, they've been doing it with OEMs behind closed doors for years. - stephenwq, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Just change the entire EULA to what you CAN do with the OS, and im sure it would be much quicker.
This is just plain crap, restrictions suck, and this will lead to more piracy and hacks to get around all this idiocy. Its just shooting themselves in the foot.
Because, if i do get vista, im definately not going to be following the EULA. - chaos217, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19So how would they enforce this for those of us that swap out components and upgrade constantly. Does it generate some sort of composite hardware code to identify the computer? I personally do swap, upgrade, and reformat every few months to keep my computer in tip-top shape, does that mean I have to buy a new version every couple of months?! If so I would die laughing...and they would perish in flames.
- alexcurpas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Don't like it? Don't buy it. Donate some money to Wine instead.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I'd prefer to donate money to beer instead. May as well get drunk while you're not buying Vista.
- cday, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21It doesn't matter to me one way or the other that Microsoft is locking their software down. What puzzles me is how one of the richest companies in the world, one that makes billions of dollars a year, can whine so loud about "piracy". Obviously somebody somewhere has legally purchased something from Microsoft at some point. Otherwise, where did all that money come from?
I like that Microsoft is making it harder for the grandkids to "upgrade" grandma's computer with their own copy of Windows. I hope they expand the WGA and OGA even further. Seriously, I do. But there's no way I will ever believe that MS is doing it "to prevent piracy", they are doing it for control. Ain't no other explanation that makes sense.
But, more power to 'em! - CharlesGriswold, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16PixelCloud said "you ***** people need to get your ***** heads out of your asses and realize that when you say "microsoft is ***** over the consumer" you mean the 5% of the population who are tech savy enough to realize it."
Nope. We mean that Microsoft is bending *all* of its customers over the barrel, but only 5% of us are tech-savvy enough to realize it. OK, so Linux isn't really an alternative for most Windows users, but OSX is increasingly becoming a viable alternative. I'd like to see MS get blatant enough to drive their customers straight into the arms of Apple. That would really make my day. - Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Surprise inside? OH its like Crackerjacks except full of censorship and not that fun.
- toomuchgreentea, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13As an investor, kudos to Microsoft for these sneaky legal maneuvers to lock in cooperate suckers.
As a user ... well, you won't see me buying another MS product until they cleaned up their acts. - darkvad0r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@alexcurpas:
that is completely up to Vista to decide. I read on the vista blog that you might have to call microsoft for reactivating vista if vista decides that you're pc is just not the same anymore. And it will be up to microsoft support to decide whether vista is right or not. - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Tequila!
- wallclimber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10jamborama: "...and I'm not a Microsoft fan..."
..............................................
Nor am I, and I agree that cday's point is a good one. Even if the new anti-piracy nonsense and the one-sided EULAs (in Microsoft's favor) don't make people look for alternatives (though I believe thet will happen, and already has to some extent), it would just be nice if their overly-controlling policies FINALLY get restrictive enough to gain the attention of their current (dare we say clueless?) customers.
The next best thing to happen would be that customers (both private and corporate) might begin demanding that Microsoft's anti-customer...oops, I mean anti-piracy...policies change.
I don't think it would be best for MS to go out of business, but I do think it's time they stop being the big, noisy, tantrum-throwing, whining, demanding unruly, ill-mannered, badly spoiled child in the room.
Monopolies are a fact of life sometimes, but they really aren't necessary. We can all do just fine without them. More choice and more competition is good for everyone. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Security pros should be allowed to penetration test an Operating System just like the "bad guys" already do without having to worry about Microsoft breathing down their backs. It's a step backward for security, not forward.
- djpearman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@cuposmuck
Firstly, when was the last time you used a Linux-based OS? I assume it's been a while because it's been a while since there were no user-friendly Linux distros available.
Secondly, concerning compatibility: I, too, wish there was better compatibility between Windows and Linux and a lot of work is being put into achieving this - by the Linux people. It's in their interest. But it's not in Microsoft's interest, is it? So they're making it difficult - often using licensing restrictions. - Lummoxx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Dear Game Developers,
You are the only reason I need Windows anymore. Please port your code to linux, for which I'd gladly pay an extra $10 for, so that I can get rid of Windows forever.
Sincerely,
a Gamer - ExSlashdotter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Here's how the hardware changes trigger reactivation in XP (in simple terms):
1. Display adapter
2. SCSI adapter
3. IDE adapter
4 Network card/MAC address (weighted as 2 points)
5. RAM amount range (0-64mb, 64mb-128mb, etc)
6. processor type
7. processor serial number
8. hard drive device
9. hard drive volume serial number
10. optical drive
Basically, if every device is worth 1 point, except your network card, which is worth 2 points. If the PC is not dockable and a network adapter exists and is not changed, 6 or more of the other above points would have to change before reactivation was required. If a network adapter existed but is changed or never existed at all, 4 or more changes (including the changed network adapter if it previously existed) will result in a requirement to reactivate.
If you've got a motherboard with tons of integrated devices, you can see how a change would force you to reactivate. Plus, the hard drive is technically checked for two things, as is the processor. Also, even with 2 identically configured machines, you can see how Ghost would violate this bigtime. - Ryosen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@jellygraph
1995 called. It wants its FUD back. - alexcurpas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Buying beer does not really count as donating money, but I feel ya. Beer is definitely much better than Vista. No fishy EULA to sign either.
Sure, it's more expensive on the long run, but it might help you get laid! - reldruh, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13For 90% of users this doesn't matter. Digg just happens to be composed of the 10% that it does matter to. Nobody in my family upgrades their computer without buying a completely new one, reads any benchmarks or does any virtualization. They also never read EULA's so this has exactly 0 affect on them. As up in arms as digg readers may be Microsoft can and will get away with this because the vast majority of the population will never even notice.
- xbasilx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7quote from the article....
"The draconian limitations I've discussed could only be enacted by a monopoly unafraid of alienating its users, as it feels they have no other alternative."
This is so true. With each ***** evil practice MS slaps the sheep around like a pimp slapping around his whores, and it seems inevitable that there will be a mass migration to linux or mac, but nope, the sheep just stand there and take their beatings. And I've always known most people were sheep, but it still surprizes me that there's almost nothing that the sheep won't tolerate. I always wonder when the sheep will rebel, but it's obvious the sheep will never rebel cos they have grown accustomed to such vile abuses that masochism is their greatest pleasure. - zambuka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@ stylerm
"the XP license keys have an install limit on them as well. I do not know what the number is, and I doubt they will say it anywhere"
Home edition of XP has an install limit of 3. I think the Pro version is the same. It does actualy state this (or at least it did when XP first came out) in the EULA text that you agree to as part of the installation process. - Kypt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I think it was mentioned before that for that purpose they'll consider it a whole new computer if you change the motherboard. Not entirely sure where I saw that though :/
- zblackeagle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Surprises" inside a snake pit. News at 11
- spookybathtub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Windows XP Pro lets you register it online 10 times. You can install and use it for up to 30 days before you register it. Or you can just get an Enterprise Edition that never needs to be registered...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That didn't take long. Thank goodness you brought us back to the real world by pointing out that we all play video games 24x7 and CAN'T do that on a Mac. I guess I'll just have to go back to my video editing and be content not playing games like I haven't for the last 20+ years.
- krackle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Cause they've sure turned a profit there. Let's see how many billions have they lost on XBox 360 sales, wasn't it 2 billion. Could be more, but still, if they did that it'd make my day. They'd be out of business and I wouldn't have to worry about the load of MS BS that is shat out of Redmond daily.
- sekyuritei, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6This is the last straw for me... the new EULA finding of the week... I'm making every effort to switch every aspect of what I do to Linux. It's like they're drunk on power. They've gotten more evil ever since Balmer took over...
- ray901, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8@PixelCloud
"you ***** people need to get your ***** heads out of your asses and realize that when you say "microsoft is ***** over the consumer" you mean the 5% of the population who are tech savy enough to realize it."
Just because a person doesn't realise that they are being screwed doesn't mean that they aren't being screwed - YOU should ***** get your ***** head out of YOUR ***** arse and ***** realise that ... oh .. and .. err.. ***** ***** *****...see I can say that word many times too. - atomicbomb, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6And this is a part of the reason why I have just bought a 24" imac. and no, i'm not installing xp on it. Had enough of M$ crap. Also I love my ipod. and if apple can do that nice a job of a music player, I'm willing to give them a try on a pc.
- mianos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This is what he is talking about:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms973265.aspx
This stuff is over the top:
(1) you must disclose all the information necessary for replication of the tests, including complete and accurate details of your benchmark testing methodology, the test scripts/cases, tuning parameters applied, hardware and software platforms tested, the name and version number of any third-party testing tool used to conduct the testing, and complete source code for the benchmark suite/harness that is developed by or for you and used to test both the .NET Component and the competing implementation(s);
(3) your benchmark testing was performed using all performance tuning and best practice guidance set forth in the product documentation and/or on Microsoft's support Web sites, and uses the latest updates, patches, and fixes available for the .NET Component and the relevant Microsoft operating system
Ie. you are not allowed to say bad things about .net (so I won't say the network latency the MS consultants we paid to test it shows it's much worse than in a native C++) application.) - ray901, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is a lot of trouble to go to for a game engine isn't it?
- trylleklovn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6A Mac is also an option, but a very different one as it requires one to buy a new computer.
My old stationary does no longer hold Windows Xp, but purely Ubuntu.
My laptop however is a MacBook. - wthnow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Microsoft should just make video games systems.
- carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4and what exactly qualifies a new computer? if i replace the case is it new? how about if some of the parts a replaced, but i keep the motherboard? what about if i'm only keeping the case and hard drive, but replacing everything else? saying that you can only install it on 2 computers is *****, and they'll quickly find out (though they should already know).
- stylerm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4the XP license keys have an install limit on them as well. I do not know what the number is, and I doubt they will say it anywhere. However, on my last install it told me that I had installed it too much and would not let me unlock it over the internet. I had to phone up Microsoft and assure them that I hadn't used this software key on multiple machines.
- Qenton, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I have more than once either destroyed, swapped out, every part of my computer.
I have called MS twice and had no problem dealing with the licensing issues with XP. It is usually pretty easy to deal with them on this.
Since they claim it is the same as XP but spelled out differently I will assume until proven wrong that this will not be much of a problem with XP. Yes, I can change out EVERY component in my computer and still consider it the same computer. It is in the same case for example. Or maybe the hard drive is the same... same computer in my mind. It would be very hard to not just give the consumer what they want and avoid anyone taking them to court and getting the court to officially destroy there EULA... And note they didn't spell out what constitutes the same computer so good luck in denying any request for transfers.
So basically it doesn't matter. It is just the same as the last EULA. I wouldn't worry about it too much. - Nocturnal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Yeah, don't worry about it, MS will catch the short end of the stick when the S* hits the fan and people, including the govt. are pissed that their systems were wide open and exploited due to security researchers not able to do their jobs. It'll happen, you can bet that it will happen.
- plamoni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I can't find it either, I went to the link and typed "vista" in the search box and hit "go" and it told me it didn't find any results...
- jav1231, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4All of this looks good on paper but the fact is that people will virtualize whichever version they buy. They will largely disregard their EULA's and do what they want. This merely arms Microsoft in case they decide to go after someone, which they won't. If someone calls in with an issue and are breaking the EULA, then Microsoft will enforce it.
Frankly, I wish they would enforce it tooth and nail. I wish they would lock down even the slightest or perceived infringement. Then people would finally make the switch to OS X and Linux. - acidtrx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Not to bash Microsoft, or Vista. But has anything remotely positive even been said about Vista? It seems like lately, all you see is negative things about it. One would think, with all the negativity floating around someone at Redmond would get the hint and at least put some effort into trying to make a better future for what is apparently the next step in the Windows family.
- digdigger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Looks like there is an update to allow multiple transfers. http://slashdot.org/articles/06/11/02/2055216.shtml
- uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Anyone who has ever talked about OSs with me probably knows that I'm all for companies being able to protect their software (in this case, Microsoft). If they so choose to do it, that's fine. The terms of the Vista license are outrageous, but hey, it's Microsoft's product, and Microsoft's call. They're going to lose some support over it though, and they have to know this. It's fine with me though. I don't need it, and I'd love to see some more competition thrown at Microsoft. They need it in the worst way possible right now (the EULA makes this perfectly clear, does it not?).
Competition is good for everybody. - kubudubudubuntu, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6The solutions are really just:
1. Kubuntu
2. Ubuntu
3. Xubuntu
and the thousands of free apps they provide with synaptic.... - daveyt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2i cant find the Vista EULA on that page he links to. Have MS removed it?
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