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132 Comments
- otatop, on 10/12/2007, -5/+197I hate that stupid ad about how you wouldn't steal all kinds of *****, so you shouldn't download movies.
"You wouldn't steal a car." Nope, and I wouldn't go to a store and steal a DVD, either, But if I could download a Ferrari in a couple of hours, you bet your ass I'd be driving a Ferrari. - pu-z, on 10/12/2007, -2/+137There are few things pissing me off more than the "You wouldn't steal a car." NON-SKIPPABLE ads in front of a DVD I just ***** BOUGHT! Insinuating that I'm a criminal when I've just done the opposite is infuriating. Makes me want to return the DVD and just download the movie sans crap.
- asif5th, on 10/12/2007, -7/+112Is this a surprise? Everyone knows the RIAA and MPAA are full of *****. Those FBI warnings in DVD Movies make me chuckle. :|
- PleaseJustDie, on 10/12/2007, -6/+67I wouldn't because if it weren't for P2P I'd never get it at all.
- Sechy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+62I am very surprised /Sarcasm. Screw the RIAA and MPAA, Why fight the future? Polaroid and Kodak didn't try to sue people because people are taking digital pictures and then printing them out on their printer. They changed their technology to work with the new standards. Why fight something you can't win?
- hypercube33, on 10/12/2007, -10/+60Piracy made me buy more CD's. I found a band I liked, and since its impossible to find high quality MP3's of every band out there, I went out and purchased their entire CD collection, and go to their concerts often. Owned.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+48Those FBI warnings (the ones that last for ages) were the reason I stopped buying DVDs.
- noreturn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+47I love it most when I buy a pirated DVD in Southeast Asia, and that same ad plays. There's something about the irony I just love.
- 2L84ME, on 10/12/2007, -2/+44If hadn't downloaded a particular song, I wouldn't have bought it instead. So they were making no gain or loss, through me anyway.
- crawfishsoul, on 10/12/2007, -7/+37Yeah, I bet that N'SYNC discography torrent was pretty difficult to find. Damn boy-band fans and their non-seeding ways!
- offspring06, on 10/12/2007, -4/+33I know some people who buy more CD's since they started downloading music. I would buy more CD's but I don't want to support the RIAA.
- joshua5, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30Free download today, paid concert tomorrow.
- skoles, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23My CD purchasing has only gone up since downloading music. I find a ton of songs by artists I've never heard on the radio and a download ensures I know I'll make a smart purchase.
I've been burned too many times by artists that change their style but still release the one song off the album that sounds like nothing else. - CigarJack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21I bet iTunes had more of an impact on Tower Records than P2P.
- Plasmatica, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16There are people who stopped buying cd's when p2p sharing got around...but there were also people like me and hypercube33 over there who actually bought more albums because of p2p.
So it all balances out. - Iknockstuffdown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14@wowbagger
You the guy that bought the penis pump off ebay? - MadScientist420, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14You are probably right, but there is definitely a lot of downloading that you can't say took away from sales. I just downloaded the KISS discography. Why? Why not. All I wanted was one random song but since HD space is cheap and I have to make the cost of my cable Internet connection seem worthwhile somehow.... If I didn't would I have bought the CD's, hell no!
- cann3dheat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Oh no! Not 803 million! How are they record company executives going to feed their families?
At least the artists get free exposure. - sparks2, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20I know i'll be dugg down saying this (heck i'd probably digg down anyone that says it) but it must be said.
P2P does not affect music sales, that means the RIAA and MPAA are full of *****, yes.
Does this mean P2P music sharing should be legal... no!
When I download a song for free, even if i wouldn't have bought it (and hence wouldn't have affected sales), i am listening to something that is not mine, and I should pay the artist for doing a good job (yes the record companies take lots of money and what not, but the artist needs to be paid) It's either I pay the artist and listen to their song or I don't do either... I cannot (as much as I want to) listen to their song and not pay saying "if i had to pay I wouldn't listen to it" - Travelsonic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12"Tower Records... closed... out of business... Virgin's V2 North American record label... closed... out of business... all artists dropped..."
So somehow that is ALL due to piracy? Somehow magicly other factors hat cause financial trouble somehow do not apply?
I smell *****. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Seriously, all this does is allow people listen to more music so they can go out and buy cds of bands they actually like instead of paying $20 for 10 songs that turn out to be trash. God forbid the artists with no talent and little content lose their potential profits from people accidentally buying their cd and regretting it later..
- Jeffler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Its true. When you STEAL a DVD, they lose. When you download a dvd, they just don't gain.
Most people who download wouldn't have boughten it anyway. The ones who would have quite often will buy after downloading. - sparks2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11"Does it bother anyone else that the other of this article said "illegal" music downloads even though there are no laws on the books that say it is illegal?"
Uhh, i'm sorry my friend but there are VERY clear rules on how to use copyrighted material and when you must pay tribute to the copyright holders and the "illegal music downloads" this article is referring to is ... illegal.
"it just goes to show you the RIAA propaganda is getting to people. "
Your post just goes to show how anti-RIAA propaganda is getting to people.
There are many things you can say about downloading music that I will agree with, saying it is not illegal is just false. (You can go ahead and say it SHOULD be legal but it is clearly not) - TheElectricMonk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9i download a lot of music, and if i didnt... well i just would have the music, sorry recording industry, but i dont have $20 to blow on 12 songs, if i wasnt downloading my music(which i DL primarily from my friends over AIM) then i would be getting burnt CDs from my friends
if you download music that you would be willing to pay for if downloading wasnt an option, stop being a little bitch and ***** buy the album
i dont buy CDs, i wont buy CDs, i buy merch. and i go to shows, i support bands, i just dont buy albums because i dont support the over-pricing the record labels attempt to force on us - andrewpmk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Actually, only the very top artists, the ones that the record companies promote heavily, are rich. Many of them are also actors, who I think are paid better since they are typically paid a lump sum per movie. The small artists who don't sell very many copies (the vast majority) get ripped off by the big record companies, who get most of the money and most of the mansions and expensive cars.
- scottydawg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10This kind of stuff has been going on long before P2P. Back in the day there would always be your friends that had the money to blow on Cassette Tapes. Heck you just waited till the bought it and made a copy of it for yourself. Then the days of CD Burners came around. The same thing existed then too. Now we are to the digital age. The same things going on, just no one is trading amongst friends.
I spend my money supporting local artists where they actually get the money and not some big company like the RIAA that has nothing better to do then make legal battles with additional artists funds. (Hopefully there comes a day when you can support artists you like directly) - Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Heh. I buy more independent labels since the advent of MP3/P2P, both in the form of CDs and eMusic downloads (eMusic is a GREAT site; unencumbered 192k mp3 downloads, 30 tracks for $10, lots of great stuff, though most of it you won't know off-hand, and will have to check out first. That said, 'listening' - downloading and playing a clip track - is free). Loca Records is a good example; I'd have never heard of 'em if it weren't for Creative Commons - a response to the record industry's over-reach-around re the MP3/P2P wave (just picture someone ***** you in the ass since the early 20's, grabbing your ***** and holding you in place as you try to escape. Yeah. You're welcome for that image. Thank the politicians that passed the DMCA for it).
Of course, the members of the RIAA make not a cent off me. Ever. Even if they reform. They actually put my attitude (and those of a number of others) towards industry associations, in general, in a terribly bad light. When people in the same business meet for any reason, it's usually in an effort to squeeze out their competition and ass-***** the customer (see Disturbing Visual 1 in this post).
Hey! I just realized, I actually KNOW one of the authors (Felix)! He used to work in the (very small) department for which I work as staff! - offspring06, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10If there is music worth buying people will buy it. I listen to a lot of 60's and 70's music because this is my favorite kind of music and a lot of new music sucks. Of all the artists out there I wonder how many are actually worth money to listen to.
- offspring06, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9It is time for artists to cut out the major labels and go independent. In this day and age anyone can record their own music for a decent price and not have to worry about their label taking 60% of album sales.
- Fordi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1025 million songs that they wouldn't have bought anyway.
- TNHitokiri, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I do not even see how cds are allowed to be sold the way they are. Music is a form of art, and art is subjective.
Do you ever buy a work of art before actually seeing it first? I think not. Music should be given a chance to be listened to first before purchasing. - Travelsonic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Sales are down cause I can get the product for free - plain and simple logic..."
Except people aren't always that simple all of the time, even plainer and simpler.
I downloaded tons of ***** on P2P... as soon as iTunes came out I purchased what I could find mainly because I liked the quality and complete-ness better. - digjedi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If p2p is the only way you've found music then you are either an idiot or 14 years old and didn't know how to work a radio.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Perhaps it's the best thing that's happened to the music industry since well before I was born!
There are tons of artists who made music in the 1960's and 70's who are still making GOOD music today. Whether or not I listen to it, look at the top disc sales, it's usually older artists. Can we say that about most of today's musicians? Do they have lasting appeal? I'd say most don't.
Music used to be about art and creation, but it's become more about production and the art-of-record-sales in mainstream music - magnusdopus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4a. This study is so off the wall that it should be taken with a grain of salt. You are basing a billion dollar industry on the traffic of 2 OpenNAP servers and the schedule of German students. WTF? There are so many variables they didn't take into consideration. Corporate networks, CD sharing, alternate servers, etc...
b. I was a heavy CD buyer, but I switched to subscription. Anyone who really loves music would likely do the same. Record stores are just not a great place to find music.
c. CDs suck. They scratch. Their bulky. Encoding is not fun. - saisumimen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Everyone starts with a persona, even if it's the one who is annoyed at everyone for being so fake."
WTF are you talking about? - Kazuo325, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4P2P is the whole reason I listen to music. Before P2P I never bought an album or even listened to the radio. Because of P2P I have been able to discover so many bands and artists I love. I buy their DVD's and CD's and go to concerts now. If I didn't get songs through P2P methods, I would have probably gone through life not listening to music.
- wombatcombat74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Looking at this study objectively, it is really hard for me to say that this study is conclusive by any means. Firstly, they used Germany the #2 supplier of p2p downloads. Why not use the #1 supplier? Do they listen to the same music to influence U.S. sales. Also, when figures of .7% are spit out, that usually accounts for a few million dollars. My advice is to read this article with a grain and salt and if you're good with statistics read the actual study. If the statistics in the study are valid then I would have more faith.
I admit myself that downloading sure as hell hasn't given me much incentive to buy any music besides just respect for a particular artist. - Yibn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's not true at all. What about artists such as BT, he doesn't receive anything from record sales and he recently had to sell his car just to fund the showing of his new musical masterpiece This Binary Universe. A lot of artists don't the "cribs" lifestyle, just go out and support artists that you enjoy by going to their shows or buying their albums directly from them through their websites and such. Also bands ten not to tour in areas where there are low record sales, so you also miss you chance on seeing certain artists because of that as well. But I do agree that the RIAA is hurting not only the consumer but the artist as well with their idiotic practices.
- trer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think Wal-Mart, Target, Circuit City and Best Buy who are able to undercut Tower like hell are the main culprit.
Places like Amoeba Records and Rasputin are fine. Tower just couldn't keep up. Virgin is just too damn expensive. - NicP, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"That doesn't make it right though. Because you are now listening to it, the artist that created the song must be paid. "
If I paid the artist for every song I have ever listened too I'd be broke, very very broke. Have you ever bought a song WITHOUT listening too it first? How are you supposed to know if you are going to like it?
Should I be paying the artists when I hear the song on the radio? when my friend lends me their cd? when I hear a song at a club? when I hear a song as someone's ringtone? - sparks2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6"I wouldn't because if it weren't for P2P I'd never get it at all."
That doesn't make it right though. Because you are now listening to it, the artist that created the song must be paid. It doesn't matter what you would have done in certain cases, what matters is what you are doing now, listening to copyrighted material without paying tribute to the artists.
Now the only way you can debate this to still be right is saying music should be free in the FIRST place, and that's a different argument that I don't have a clear position on. - mathewi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Reality check: This study was done in 2002, and originally publicized in 2004. I'm not saying it's not true, because there's a lot of truth to it, but the survey data is more than 5 years old, and the news is three years old. No Diggs.
- shark72, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Tower Records... closed... out of business... Virgin's V2 North American record label... closed... out of business... all artists dropped..."
Remember when Universal was busted for price-fixing a few years back? That had a lot to do with Tower's eventual demise. Here's how it happened:
- Best Buy and Wal-Mart started selling CDs for cheap... really cheap. Loss leaders to get people into their stores and buy the expensive stuff.
- Tower and a couple of other retailers (TWE and one I can't think of) complained to the record companies.
- Universal set Tower up with a "Minimum Advertised Price" program, in which they gave Tower money to spend on ads... but only if they didn't advertise prices below a certain price (they could *sell* them for whatever they wanted, but couldn't *advertise* below that price.)
- Best Buy and Wal-Mart found out about this and complained to the government, which unleashed a holy bitch slap on Universal. And there was much rejoicing in Digg and Slashdot land.
Tower went out of business. Best Buy and Wal-Mart continue to sell CDs for cheap. And MAP programs still happen... even "good" companies like Apple use them. The price-fixing settlement was good news for Digg and Slashdot users (at least those who got settlement checks) and even better news for Best Buy and Wal-Mart. Not so good news for Tower and some other independent record stores. But if you're a believer of "what's good for Wal-Mart is good for America," then everything's fine.
- digjedi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Seems like a much of people post this excuse and somehow think it justify their point that they are not stealing. "I buy more cause I find what's good and buy what I like." Years ago before p2p people bought a little of everything - sometimes crap, sometimes the next greatest thing. Maybe an artist has a ton of good records and one bad one. People would still buy it to check it out - now adays if not a good album then one no buys and the artist doesn't last to make another album.
This is one issue that tons of "smart" people will realize they are wrong. I saw a debate on this at Harvard and a bunch of those "smart" people standing up saying that being able to download albums for free helped the record business. What morons. Maybe those rich people dowload albums then go buy it the next day - sorry but the millions of people with little cash never buy and always download for free. - zanzzz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Zero impact on sales is absurd!
Most downloads would not be sales if this was the only means of availability, I agree.
Boost in sales due to viral marketing exposure via illegal downloads.
vs.
Loss in sales due to easy availability of free downloads.
That is the billion dollar question!
Other skewing factors:
Lousy "artists" promoted by music industry combined with no risk promotion of mature proven artists depresses sales.
Fierce competition for limited entertainment dollars- DVD's, games, etc. drives down CD sales.
Rock music is dead!
Rock music releases today consist of unoriginal derivative bands that generate tepid response or long in the tooth wrinkly rock war horses well past their prime.
There are few common denominator bands that galvanize a wide fan base. The ones that approach this tend to be manufactured pop pretenders that flame out quick. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Starting in 2002, two to three years AFTER the P2P craze started makes this study suspect immediately
- goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2pu-z:
I'm 100% with you. And the fact that your comment has got 100+ diggs has inspired me. I also paid for Sony for a DVD player that forces me to watch ads. I also want to light the thing on fire everytime it happens.
My DVD player is already 2 years old, and I kick myself now for not taking it back the first time this happened. But I've just decided I will take the next DVD back. And if I buy another DVD player in a couple years and it happens again (and I'm sure it will), I'm going to take it back. And I'm going to try to convince everyone I know to do the same. - Sgurdcrimp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4So all of my theories were right..... When you have pop, gangsta rap, and other horrible
punk and hardcore bands and this takes up 99% of your shelf space, you'll have bad sales.....
Its also funny how hollywood thinks they're making great movies... Boy I thought Grudge 2 was
awesome.... cant wait for the third... and Saw 4.... ohh boy ohhhhhhhh boy.... rocket farmer looks
reallllllllllll good too... ohhh and how about miss congeniality 5....
they really don't care though, all their money comes from 12 year olds who go out every friday to see anything...
you can already see how they're affecting their generation... they're all fake and have nothing to live for, except maybe
some big glasses.... wooo - rauz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Oh ok, I guess all the bands I know that have stopped making music because of dwindling sales were just plain wrong then.
This was underground artists on indie labels that used to work out just fine (i.e. they didn't lose any money and people bought the cd's) so don't bring me that MTV Cribs bs. Also, concerts can't make up for the huge loss...I'm sorry.
The ones who are hurt the most by p2p are not Madonna, Timberlake et al, they have the margins on their side.
I download too but at least I'm not pretending it's good for the music business. -
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