What is Digg?111 Comments
- jamesbell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I am a consultant who has to support Linux and Windows servers for many companies. I find that the Jr. League Administrators blow up their Windows boxes because they spend their day spinning up and installing every piece of crap they can get their hands on. After they maniacally install every P2P junk app, instant message, search toolbar, malware, etc. on their servers, the server eventually gives up the fight and the Jr. League Admin successfully brings the server to its knees.
Through observation, I find that they cannot install as much junk on their Linux boxes, because it takes too much work and thought to install stuff on their Linux servers, therefore they have to engage their brain. That is where they stop.
When I ask them how their servers got so JUNKED up, they say I dunno, must be WinBlowz or something magically loading the CD’s themselves… [ insert other idiotic responses here].
In summary, computers are dumb. Just ones and zeros folks. They only do what you tell them. If your Windows, Linux or any other box is blown up, it is always the fault of the person managing it. It is not a video game kiddies… back away from the server.
Blaming it on the OS is exactly what you hear from people who should not be touching a server or in charge of keeping a companies mission critical systems working.
You just never see blown up Windows or Linux boxes if the admin has a clue. - halc5s, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"The report was sponsored by Open Source Development Labs and member company Levanta, and undertaken by Enterprise Management Associates."
"Levanta is a leader in Linux management and data virtualization."
Yeah, no bias here! No digg. - cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -3/+61 OS does not patently cost more than any other OS in the long run, they cost more or less depending on what you are doing, in what environment, and who is using and managing ths OS.
If this crap continues then Digg will just become another linux fan-boy bastion like SlashDot.
Who the hell has so much time on their hands they can spend it spewing forth the Linux faith? Get a life, meet a girl, go out on a date...
Scheese... - rafgar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Why do people hate Windows? Most don't. Those that despise using Windows (among the people I know) mostly just hate MS (which is a horribly dishonest company) and won't support them.
Why do I hate Windows? Stability is an issue, though a relatively minor one now. Mostly, these days, the problems with Windows are price (the same reason I don't like OSX), security, and lack of a customizable interface.
Linux DOES have a lower TCO than Windows. The company I work for spends several hundred thousand a year on licensing and support. There is no way in hell you could approach those numbers with Linux, even if you picked up the phone to call tech support for every little thing (which, if you have an in house IT department like we do, you shouldn't). We MIGHT spend that might on training the first year, but there's no way we'd approach the 10 year figure we have now. Unlike MS, open source groups don't have to skew their results in that respect.
As for user-friendliness, yes, you have to relearn how to use your computer when you switch to Linux. Take a Linux user who's never used anything else (yes, they do exist) and put him at a Windows computer and you'd have the same result. In fact, you might just find that such a user would find Windows far harder to learn than Linux.
And one more thing: Why is it cool to post a 'Linux Sucks' article, but when someone puts out a pro-Linux article all you flamers come out to play? Generally speaking, Linux users know Windows. There are exceptions, but the vast majority of us learned to use Windows first. The same can not be said of Linux-haters. If your opinion is uninformed (which, if you don't even know how to access X11, it is) keep it to yourself. - asshopo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Get Linux to install on a laptop and desktop and have both just work after installation. I use Linux every day (as a server, not a desktop) because every time I try to get wireless working with it, get my sound working properly, etc, its a chore.
Ya, with WIndows, I have to fuss with downloading drivers or using the CD if I still have it, but guess what? IT JUST WORKS! No recompiling the kernel, no downloading someones hack for a sound card. No spending forever and a day trying to figure out why my laptop freezes when I put my wireless card in, only to find out that the memory options in my pcmcia.opts (that I never changed) caused the problems. Once I figured that out, I then had to fight with the beast named wlan0 that doesn't like encryption.
Ya. Linux has its place. Running Apache, MySQL, PHP, Sendmail and BIND. That means this article is right, it IS cheaper for a server, but not for the average home user. - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Duh.
Linux = free + helpful and informed community to learn from + world of source code + supporting it helps to preserve a stark proponent of the free world that young and experienced programmers alike can benefit greatly from and contribute back.
Windows = cost + must buy protection software and no way to see how the internal code works. + supporting it helps to preserve a large, monopolistic corporation that slants users away from knowing how their computers really work and will cripple free software for everyone if it means larger bank rolls.
interesting parallels. - L0t3k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2
Lets keep things in perspective. Microsoft funds [read: buys] lots and lots of studies, every year, to show that TCO on Linux is higher than Windows. These TCO reports are actually very important, because it gives the suits a big stick to swing when they're batting for one platform or another. - ScottyMo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3late breaking news:
"Study Finds Tap Water Less Expensive Than Bottled Water" - stubby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"linux = free
windows = -$
end of story" - mhl12
You must not have to deal with help desks, remote access, user training, software support, etc. TCO goes far beyond licensing. - jakeg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1show me one of these studies that is TRULY independent, not sponsored, funded, or otherwise influenced by people with a vested interest in the outcome, one direction or another, and i'll be impressed.
it is incredible to me that anyone with an ounce of intelligence takes one of these "studies" seriously. i use both linux and windows in my work environment. why is it that all the linux fanbois jump all over any study sponsored by Microsoft, but you don't hear anyone complain about the results of a "study" that "was sponsored by Open Source Development Labs and member company Levanta," not exactly a neutral party in the argument.
Just because I can pay someone to say I'm the sexiest man alive doesn't make it true. Likewise, just because a "research group" with a fancy sounding name releases a report, doesn't mean it isn't full of BS. - butlershouse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2another study sponsored by a Open Source Advocate group ! results ... most likely skewed. will there ever be an truly independent study ?
- halc5s, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1L O L
I wonder which distro funded this "study" They are getting as bad as MS and it's "studies" - scottysize, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2They had to do a study on this? Come ON!
- jhowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Okay, I administer multiple Linux based servers and I run Debian for my primary os on my desktop and laptop. It's safe to say that I'm an advocate of open source solutions. However, it's not helpful to submit a study from a Microsoft, Linux, or Apple based company, because they're going to be biased. If you want to get the point across on digg.com, then find an unbiased source, so that myself, and the windows / apple user's can see for themselves. Doing it any other way is pointless.
Just my 2c. - shiftless, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Heh. Try training your employees. You are not going to find it at cheap prices.
- Anchoret, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6If you put any dollar value on your time at all, Desktop Linux is the most wildly expensive OS humanly imaginable, and I've never met an honest Linux expert who didn't agree.
This also doesn't take into account the money typically spent replacing Linux-unsupported hardware.
This whole "Linux is free" business is a total canard in practical terms. - Anchoret, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> Just shut up please.
I'd be content if they just stopped lying.
As I've written many times before, "OS advocacy is best understood as a psychiatric symptom."
I'm not joking, either.
BTW, I use Linux. I also regard it as a superb OS for embedded industrial use and large institutional networks. I just don't find it a practical general-use desktop OS, nor can I logically expect it to ever be considering the insurmountable disadvantages it faces in terms of money and management for development, as well as its inherent unprofitability. - rafgar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Someone call me when I don't need to hack .conf files and run .make to install a program. The entire Linux OS is just way too conviluted for normal people to use."
This is that call. Configure with KControl or Gnome Control Center. Install programs with Synaptic. Anyone who really thinks modern Linux distros (with the obvious exception of distros aimed at advanced users, such as Debian or Gentoo) are really that much more complicated than Windows needs to get a distro intended for end users (Xandros, Ubuntu/Kubuntu, Linspire, etc. etc. etc.). - hardkoretom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Most people dont hate windows. the majority of us IT workers get paid because we use windows. and somebody must be a numbskull to say that linux is cheaper than windows because almost every distro is free
- 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> jkfan87 wrote: "Actually, Tobey, most people DON'T hate Windows. Most people are not pathetic fanboys. And if they are hating companies for "stealing" then Apple has to be first on that list."
I agree that most people aren't pathetic fan boys. You, jkfan87, however, are easily one of the most blatant examples of a "pathetic fanboy" you'll find anywhere.
Do you disagree? Go back over the comments you've written over the past several months with a critical eye, jkfan87. And while doing so, try this little trick: everywhere you've written "OS X" replace it with "Windows.". Everywhere you've written "Apple" replace it with "Microsoft." Though I have my doubts, I'd like to think that such an exercise will demonstrate that you are indeed one of the kings of pathetic fanboyism.
Oh, and please feel free to do the same with what I've written. You'll discover that aside from an admitted preference for the Mac, I've mentioned that I also own and use an XP box and a Linux box. - myskja, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What's this, Slashdot...?
- DigitAl56K, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1First of all, I call BS on this. For every article that says Linux is less expensive, there is one that says Windows is more expensive.
I've used many Linux distros, and I always go back to Windows because except for specific purposes (webserver, FTP, etc.) Windows provides a better environment to work in and because almost every facet of the OS is graphically manipulated it's much easier for the *end user*, not an administrator, to manage.
Would the cost to an admin go down if all his users switched to Linux? Maybe. What would be the loss in productivity though?
Each OS has it's pros and cons. It saddens me when one camp or the other digg these kind of stories because in the end it doesn't have to be one versus the other: both have found roles in todays world for different purposes, based upon their suitability for the task in question.
*Gasp* who would have thought it? - tenchi89, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1In my company the number one deterrent against linux, and most other open source products, is accountability. In a major corporation the big boys want someone they can yell at if something goes horribly wrong. If you have a choice of setting up an application that could make you 10 million or lose you 10 million in one day would you rather trust the power of google or have faith in the fact that you could call up Microsoft at any point in time and they would have one of there senior level people there within hours? This is how "The Man" thinks. They want a neck to strangle incase something goes wrong and the neck of an admin just isn't big enough. I know for a fact this is the reason why my company runs WebSphere, and formally J-Run instead of something like J-Boss. Also why we write in ASP, .Net, or other random web languages instead of PERL and PHP, and why we use SQLServer instead of MySQL.
There always has to be a scape goat. - ammosponge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1not trying to rain on your parade, but there IS a linux distro that for the majority of systems, "just works" it's mepis linux. http:\www.mepis.org i'm a network engineer, and it's sucessfully configured just about any hardware i've thrown at it..... including the much feared "wireless adapter" and the pain in the ass nvidia drivers. i've got it running on a notebook. the only thing that DOESN'T work is the POS media adapter, and i don't USE it so it doesn't matter.
give it a try..... it's debian based, meta stable, takes cedega easily, which takes care of the whole "but i can't play X on linux" argument.
cripes, i got my MOM switched to it. she thinks the toaster is high tech, and can use mepis without breaking a sweat. what's more, i no longer get to spend an hour every time i visit to despyware her pc, when i go to visit. - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Try training your employees. You are not going to find it at cheap prices."
What about the THOUSANDS of FREE high quality tutorials floating around the internet, you can't say there are none, there's at least one on digg almost every day. I did not pay a red cent training myself to run Linux and BSD. Why can't companies aggregate and organize these tutorials to suit their needs and build a company wiki to store the knowledge on? I'm sure that can't be too expensive because the info is out there for free waiting for them. - Matt2k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Linux is a fine OS, but I'd be doutful of any study about TCO on the desktop one way or the other. There are simply too many factors.
The cost of an OS isn't in its initial purchase, which in bulk, you can get XP pro for a few dollars a workstation. But the second someone has to call the support department, you have an hour of downtime here, an hour of downtime there and you average that over the cost of a year or five, and things look a lot different. - SsbFalcon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1O RLY?
Seriously, I and many others know this...
But to those hating Windows, I find no reason to. I have no real problems with Windows itself, just with the many, many viruses, spyware, malware written for Windows.
Why do I use Linux? Because I can! As of now, it's desktop is much more interesting than the Windows desktop especially for its easy modability, Enlightenment, and now Compiz. It works perfectly for me on my desktop and laptop, with Nvidia and ATI card's respectivley, my laptop's components including wireless work flawlessly with Suse and Ubuntu (Currently using ubuntu latest alpha until Suse 10.1 is released) I have all the software I need, including finally 2 MS project replacemnets, a good balance of games, commercial crossplatform and freeware, the world's best web browsers, Firefox and Opera, and basically, the ability to do whatever I want.
I use Windows for whatever I can't do in linux, or just when I feel like it. But now that Ubuntu starts faster than WinXP, even after defragging and rearranging the WinXP boot files (Everyone should do this using TuneXP, you can use it to make XP faster in startup, shutdown, and generally more responsive.) If I'm doing random web browsing, I'll use it whenever I need quick access to my machine.
On Windows I have a ReiserFS driver to read and write, and on linux an NTFS driver, so if either system breaks, (or there is some stubborn spyware on Windows) I can fix it. - JustMatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Plus i bet Linux is much less advanced overall and that's why it can be fixed quicker:"
Key words there "i bet." You apparently don't even use Linux and don't actually know what you are talking about. True, Linux may tend to have certain random crap features left off, but you can get your hands on them one way or another. Besides, you act like "Linux" is a specific OS. There are tons of Linux distros with completely different interfaces.
To be honest with you, I don't HATE Windows. I really dislike the way it is run, and the things that the company itself does, but the OS is not terrible for casual computer use. Just don't hate on Linux of you don't know. And my only comment on OS X....OSx86...'nuff said.
just had to vent as well. - spamdies, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.redhat.com/en_us/USA/rhel/compare/server/
yeah this looks free to me. and this is typical for server solutions ,. - Rounin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Someone call me when I don't need to hack .conf files and run .make to install a program. The entire Linux OS is just way too conviluted for normal people to use.
- brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0We use Skype in-house and find it invaluable. However, our Berkely CS grad with 10 years of Linux experience had to spend about 4 hour$ of his time chasing rpm dependancies and tweaking his machine to get Skype to work - even then he has to shut it down and restart it every time he makes a call :|. Thats $180 in labor to get a free app working.
Once I RMA'd 3 Opteron serverboards - but on the third one I realized it wasnt the boards, but the then-buggy Linux Broadcom support, which I could only find out about in a post on Usenet. That was good for about $400 in man hours.
Also, our web developer coming into my office to check compatibility on MSIE on my machine because he runs desktop Linux became a drag - so I kicked down $400 for him to run VMWare and XP. :|
This stuff doesnt happen every day in Linux, but it isnt rare, and its mostly desktop linux issues, not server-side.
A lot of people think that just because Linux is free and can be tweaked to do a lot of tricky things, that its cheaper to operate - it isnt always. - JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Stop wasting money and cure cancer **
- appdx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I can't believe someone did a study...Of course linux is less expensive...it's free!!!
"stop wasting money and cure cancer" - My thoughts exactly. - tsupersonic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think we don't need to read the story, we (the people of digg) know this as a fact. There is no study required, I think they just wasted too much man power for this.
- JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Durrr...
Studying this was a waste of money... cure cancer or make bigger burgers. But don't do a study on something that's obvious. - duke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Linux is cooler than all heck, as long as:
1. You know what you are doing, and
2. You have a root password to do it.
Otherwise, Windows wins. Fortunately for many of us, we have both 1 and 2 at our disposal, so we get to choose which OS we want to use at any given time. That's why it's called a PERSONAL computer.
If you're stuck running Linux without root, hey, you're just a meatbot. - spamdies, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"linux = free" is not always true.
Many of the enterprise soulutions charge a pretty penny for their os and for their support of their os. Community projects are not a support solution for large corparations that is wise. - CorpT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1It's clear all the little Linux fanbois running Linux in their basement have no idea what TCO means. I'll give you a hint. It's more than just what the OS costs.
- shayneroll, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0>> This just in ...
Study finds that Star Wars toys have been rectally inserted more than any other toy. And this study was free!!
WinBlowZ -- HaxZor's Unite around LinUX and our savior Linus (ahh… Linus)
Bill Gates is the Devil and sometimes tries to play Jedi mind-tricks on me… and the voices tell me to do bad things to my computer.
All stuff is free and stuff… and stuff. - bjohnsonwsu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Now, I haven't touched Windows in about 9 months. Regardless, I've always been a fan of "use the right tool for the job" strategy. Why do I choose Linux? It's free and I'm cheap. If a company, which usually get discounts and site licenses, chooses to go with Windows because they think it suits their needs better - go for it. These "studies" are always biased one way or the other.
- ohhhL3ThaL, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am so glad this took research.
I laughed really hard when I read that title
NO DIGG
NO STOPPIN - AndyManCan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm tired of the ranting and BS automatically attached to any article about Linux. Yes, Linux is for nerds, like Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux project. But all you average types that don't have the time to learn Linux, remember who drives the BMW and can afford to do round trip tours of the world every few years. So let us keep things in perspective.
Windows = What I use most of the time, and what most people are happy with.
Linux = Can do everything that Windows can do, does not take a rocket scientist (Teenagers are using it around the world! If a teenager can do it, can you?)
Mac OS X = Not the cheapest hardware, but the software is very good, not too expensive, and it is what all the high level apps run on, after dark, final cut pro, etc. Killer apps!
Other = Hard to find nowadays, there might be some purists who still keep a dos box hanging around in the basement, but its getting very hard to find nowadays.
Gooos = Google! Is this true? Will there one day be a Google OS? Cause I am so there! I would love to have a boot CD that I could just pop into any computer, it does a format and install, and boom I have Fire fox running on a Gnome desktop, with maybe Thunder bird to cover e-mail, and Open Office in the distro as well? That would be a well rounded kick ass system that is almost immune to virus attacks. That would kick so much ass! What do you people think? (Gooos would be a Linux distro, but it would not suck in any way, shape or form!) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Further what I have found while looking for side work, is that EVERY 'Job Posting' for php or linux based web servers starts with...
"We have no money to pay you out of pocket, but will give you profit sharing, or let you use an office here"
all ads for microsoft / IIS based positoins start with
"We will pay you $xxxx "
So I would agree, in the server world, linux is definatly cheaper than windows... cause all the cheap skates with no $$ to do anything, use it.
As for desktops... that is a definate different world. people are used to microsoft, all the newbs buy their computer with windows pre-installed, and know of no other option. personally i run windows and linux at home, but the ONLY thing i have found usefull with linux, is when i feal the urge to browse my neighbors wireless network. Playing a game on it, is a bitch, trying to get hardware to work right is a bitch. now granted, those 2 issues ONLY exist because there is a microsoft monopoly... but thats how it is,.... deak wutg ut, - shayneroll, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0TOC? Total Cost of Ownership is "THE MAN" talkin'
You gotta quit talkin' "THE MAN'S" language before you can ever think of being relased from the bondage... and truely be free.
We do not need all that corprity money and stuff... cuz we're just "Walkin' the Earth and helping people and *****", except our Kung Fu weapon of choice is Linux.
Live in your parents basement, then you don't have to think about all this high-falootin' WinBlowz stuff. - ompalaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0/me thinks this was kind of obvious.
Gentoo > * - cntp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0from the article:
"The report was sponsored by Open Source Development Labs and member company Levanta"
so basically it's no different from the TCO reports sponsered by Microsoft. Honestly people.... - invader, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0on a related subject:
"Study finds that taking surveys is a good way to waste time. Respondents noted that it is fun to pester people walking around the mall, and living off government grant money is way better than having a real job" - sadsac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Tell me something I do know...
- ProAm500, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0old news, lamed, whatever...i cant believe it took a "study" to find this out....unreal..
- tboutcher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Tboutcher@Linux~>su
password:
Linux:/home/tboutcher# ./*****
Linux#+digg -
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