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64 Comments
- elebrio, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16When you buy a home (and the land it sits on) generally you dont get mineral rights to what lies beneath. State could just seize it eminent domain style.
- patientzero, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17"Sir, we've been flying over your home regularly for some time now and we have photos to prove that you're harboring oi.. I mean, terrorists. Please vacate the property."
- Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12@ SoCalDissident
How can they "drop the price" when the oil companies are not SETTING the price? The cost of a barrel of crude is being set by a bunch of big money men sitting, metaphorically, on Wall Street.
Someone should haul them out into the street and have them shot. Their "fear" premiums are reaching ludicrous levels. They're manipulating the cost of Oil futures to make more money, and in the process they're driving the cost of crude sky high when it doesn't need to be. - elebrio, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10The price of oil is being set by the demand of the consumer. You could bid on oil on the spot market. You're ability to resell it would be determined by supply/demand.
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Actually, oil IS the best energy source, and the way we know this is that energy from oil is still cheaper than the alternatives. There's no conspiracy here, just the fact that a gallon of gasoline holds a hell of a lot more potential energy than the same weight of of Lithium Ion cells, Hydrogen gas, or whatever else you want to try for an alternative.
If oil becomes scarce enough, then its price will rise to the point where we'll use other sources instead. It's not something to get all emotional about.
-jcr - MasterGrief, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Thumbs up for the reference, but did you really have to quote the whole thing?
Meh. - d3dm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I'm with ya. We already know where there is oil offshore of California and there's no way that you'd ever be able to extract it.
Just try to build a new refinery or lay a new pipeline in this country without the crackpots coming out of the woodwork screaming about the "delicate ecosystems".
Look, I'm all for holding corporations accountable when they pollute the air or water, but some of these activist groups seem to want us all to be living in communes, wearing hemp tunics, and eating bean curd. No thanks. - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"destroying countless ecosystems."
Have you SEEN the area in Alaska where they want to drill? It looks like the ***** MOON! THERE IS NOTHING THERE! NOTHING AT ALL!
If you consider a moonscape a precious ecosystem, then I guess you are right. - d3dm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@Beliyaal
What is does is send a message to the rest of the world that the US is willing to drill on its own precious property in order to fill some of its energy needs. This will cause the price of a barrel of crude to fall on the open market.
Until we send some sort of message that says we're doing something about our energy requirements (more drilling, more refining capacity, serious moves toward alternate energy sources), we are at the mercy of speculators and will continue to pay more at the pump. - ThatsUnpossible, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yes "we" should look at renewable sources. However, "the market" will look at whatever can turn a profit. As long as their is still oil that can be processed and sold for more than it costs to dig it out of the ground, there will still be oil companies.
- osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5elebrio -Supply/Demand with a giant OPEC damper in the middle.
- thexder, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Come and listen to a story about a man named Jed
A poor mountaineer, barely kept his family fed,
Then one day he was shootin at some food,
And up through the ground came a bubblin crude.
Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.
Well the first thing you know ol Jed's a millionaire,
Kinfolk said "Jed move away from there"
Said "Californy is the place you ought to be"
So they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverly.
Hills, that is. Swimmin pools, movie stars.
Well now its time to say good by to Jed and all his kin.
And they would like to thank you folks fer kindly droppin in.
You're all invited back a gain to this locality
To have a heapin helpin of their hospitality
Hillybilly that is. Set a spell, Take your shoes off.
Y'all come back now, y'hear?. - Corliath, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10oil companies
- ArchieAndrews, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Just to add another dimension to this discussion: In Canada, O+G rights are separate from mineral rights are separate from water rights are separate from land ownership. I don't know if it is the same in the US or not.
- theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5NO, I understand exactly what is needed. When we get the oil from AK, then we have 50 years of total and complete independence from funding Islamofacism in the middle east. They no longer get one red cent of our money.
And in the mean time, it gives us plenty of time to get our 100% nuclear and hydrogen energy matured to the point that by the time it runs out, then we WON'T NEED oil in big quantities in this nation anymore. And what tiny amount we will still need, the wells in Texas can still provide. Total energy independence from the rest of the world. Just like Brazil. - xixor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4As cool as it is to see geoscience technology on Digg, this isn't really new technology. Electromagnetic exploration methods have been in use for 60 odd years or so in the resource exploration industry. EM methods are usually used in the search for electrical conductors within the ground which are related to economic minerals. When the EM signal his the conductor, currents get generated in it, which in turn generate their own fields and these propagate to the surface where they are measured. Sensor technology has advanced enough that small changes in the field can be measured allowing the relatively weaker signal from the resistive oil deposit to be measured.
These type of EM surveys have a much smaller depth of penetration than seismic survey so the chances of a huge oil deposit to be found purely EM exploration technique is quite small. As the story mentions, this particular application was used on an existing oil field and was used purely to refine the boundaries of the reservoir.
So, despite the hype, this shouldn't detract anyone from the fact that as a global society we are going to need to ween ourselves off of our massive consumption of fossil fuel. - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Your obvioulsy are not clear on what they want to do. They aren't drilling the whole thing. They will actually be drilling on an extremely tiny and remote part. It will effect NOTHING whatsoever, not animals, not birds, not plants, not scenery, not seals, not whales. NOTHING. Because nothing is there.
The Inuits (Eskimos) want it drilled, the entire Congressional (House and Senate) delegation from AK want it drilled, the AK Governor wants it drilled, and the AK State Legislature wants it drilled.
What is so hard to understand? Do you really think you know more about the issue than the people who live in the state, whose lives it will directly effect? - fishbert, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6... because that means it won't eventually run out.
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hey, sounds like a great idea. How much of your OWN money do you want to invest?
-jcr - origclubsoda, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Lot of good it will do us because the stupid Democrats wont let us drill in the USA
- umrgregg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I agree xixor. Additionally, the article is not at all accurate when describing seismic:
"Electromagnetic imaging is a more direct way to detect oil than seismic surveys, since it can measure differences between oil and water, something seismic methods can't do."
I just about stopped after reading that. Way to throw 20 years of seismic attributes analysis out the window there... - efg34, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10Spotting oil from the sky? That's easy, it's where all the US troops are massed.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is old news. Hasn't anyone ever played WarCraft II?
- flipouk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Ah ah ah! Les avions renifleurs sont de retour :)
For the non-French out there : "The sniffing planes are back."
I couldn't resist: This reminds me too much of the biggest con of all times in France in the 70s/80s.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_des_avions_renifleurs (french)
Sorry, I couldn't find anything in English about this (except: http://www.thenation.com/doc/19840225/singer). In short, this is the story of con-men selling to Elf (former biggest oil producer of France) the concept of planes able to "sniff" oil from a distance.
This has ended up being as serious as these men who sold the Eiffel Tower (http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-20-2004-50787.asp) - VikOlliver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Uh, great. Now they know where not to dig so the stuff stays in the ground where it should be. I have no desire to be baked alive by greed.
Vik :v) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8@elebrio
how ***** naive are you?
the price of crude is set by a cartel of oil producing countries called OPEC.
they purposely limit production to a certain number of barrels in order to raise or lower prices.
wall street and oil companies are simply responding to this.
the consumer is just ass ***** by them all. the idea that supply and demand of the consumer setting the price is a myth. to put it in simple terms - when was the last time you pulled up to a servo and they had no fuel? never? ok so clearly our supply isn't out stripping demand, so why are prices rising so insanely. - thexder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes I went back to try and delete it and I couldn't...digg used to give you time to edit
- AnImAl999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I know.. Having clean air, drinking water, and some wildlife to let your kids look at really sucks ass doesn't it.. ;-P
- reevolutn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1or angled oil rigs maybe? simpsons did it
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3lets just hope it finds some that is not in the middle east.
- dysfunction, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@theblooms: No, obviously you are not clear. The ANWR is 19 million acres, 1.5 million has been set aside for possible drilling. This is not just an extremely tiny and remote part. Though Congress has limited that to only 2,000 acres, they are only counting the space actually taken up by drilling equipment- the devastation caused by those "2,000 acres" could be far larger, possibly as large as the whole 1.5 million acres allotted. You can't tell me that 1.5 million acres can be drilled without massive disturbance of ecosystems. The Inuit's support of the drilling has little to do with any environmental concerns; they're worried about improving their economy. The same goes for Alaskan politicians. What, the Inuit can't be motivated by human needs? Improving their lives is a noble goal, but there are other ways to do so that don't involve irreparably damaging ecosystems.
- dysfunction, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Is *more oil* exactly what we should be looking for right now? That's like sailors trying to climb to the highest bit of their ship as it sinks, instead of pumping up their life rafts. Shouldn't we look for renewable fuel sources rather than the last little bits of the one that's running out?
- SoCalDissident, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Was that a sarcastic comment or a serious one? Obviously, oil companies. Maybe they'll drop prices to the point where gas stabilizes at $3/gallon, but I'm pretty confident even if there was a glut of crude we'll never see gas as low as $1 or 2$ a gallon again...
- konspence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That is one of the best analogies I have heard regarding oil, pure genius.
- AnImAl999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Just like those wmd's eh? ;-P
- TheGrunt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1We are looking for alternatives, at the same time as making the last bit of our petrol do the most it can for us. Until we have a stable, cheap design using alternative fuel, oil will dominate.
- Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"State could just seize it eminent domain style."
But woe is *another* country if it's not state property. ;-) - AnImAl999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yup.. Cause you know if you're a middle eastern country with oil that we want.. We'll bomb the living ***** out of you.. Don't believe us.. Ask Saddam... Hmm.. Is that an al queda operative you're harboring???? ;-P
- konspence, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1English:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=fr_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAffaire_des_avions_renifleurs - andersonmanly, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1It's nice to see technology used in new ways like this, but we REALLY need to ween ourselves off of oil. All the latest and greatest technology being used to sustain an old, old habit.
- pantuky, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Interesting from the viewpoint of Geosciences, but I think we need to build a couple of terrawatt nukes and bring back the GM EV1 electric car.
- punkrockxtian, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1How about finding alternatives to oil rather than looking for more of it? I know REAL alt. energy sources are a good 20 years away, but this is just pushing back that transition!
- nixfu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5>Wow I wonder who will make money off this?
ME! And hopefully LOTS of it..
I own stock in companies like SLB, RIG etc..in addition to EMC, SUNW, APPL etc.
wanna know a secret...shh..... *whisper* you can to if you want to. What a kicker huh? - LoopyChew, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"Have you SEEN the area in Alaska where they want to drill? It looks like the ***** MOON! THERE IS NOTHING THERE! NOTHING AT ALL!"
Funny thing about that. You could say the same thing about the desert in Arizona, but underneath the surface of sand? Whole ecosystems are thriving.
Just because you don't see anything on top don't mean there inn't nothing underneath. - efisher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0or under a wildlife refuge.
- SmartITGuy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Damn the planet - full speed ahead!
That's right ... Gotta squeeze every last fikking drop of fossil fuel out of this planet.
And ONLY when there is no more oil, THEN "start" trying to develop alternative energy means. - giraldus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Am I the only one to remember the scandal of the "avions renifleurs"?
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_des_avions_renifleurs
Late 70s, early 80s, the French gvt got suckered into financing a new
technology supposed to do... just what this article described. Who made
money out of this? the crooks who sold the 'technology' to gulible
bureaucrats.. No oil was found by the way :-) - stalinvlad, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Your like sheep with credit cards
Ssssh you'll wake them up from the american dreamtime - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4What the hell difference does it make? We have 50+ years worth in Alaska, and more off the Gulf Coast. All we have to do is go get it. But certain groups REFUSE to let us. So what's the point in finding new reserves. They won't let us go get those either.
- dysfunction, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@theblooms: it's not about what it LOOKS like, it 's about what lives there. Ugly or no, the ANWR is home to thousands of species. From Wikipedia:
"The refuge supports a greater variety of plant and animal life than any other protected area in the circumpolar arctic. There is a continuum of six different ecozones spanning some 200 miles (300 km) north to south.
Along the northern boundary of the refuge, barrier islands, coastal lagoons, salt marshes, and river deltas provide habitat for migratory waterbirds including sea ducks, geese, swans, and shorebirds. Fish such as dolly varden and arctic cisco are found in nearshore waters. Coastal lands and sea ice are used by caribou seeking relief from biting insects during summer, and by polar bears hunting seals and giving birth in snow dens during winter.
The arctic coastal plain stretches southward from the coast to the foothills of the Brooks Range. This area of rolling hills, small lakes, and north-flowing, braided rivers is dominated by tundra vegetation consisting of low shrubs, sedges, and mosses. Caribou travel to the coastal plain during June and July to give birth and raise their young. Migratory birds and insects flourish here during the brief arctic summer. Tens of thousands of snow geese stop here during September to feed before migrating south, and musk oxen live here year-round.
South of the coastal plain, the mountains of the eastern Brooks Range rise to over 9,000 feet (3,000 m). This northernmost extension of the Rocky Mountains marks the continental divide, with north-flowing rivers emptying into the Arctic Ocean and south-flowing rivers joining the great Yukon River. The rugged mountains of the Brooks Range are incised by deep river valleys creating a range of elevations and aspects that support a variety of low tundra vegetation, dense shrubs, rare groves of poplar trees on the north side and spruce on the south. During summer, peregrine falcons, gyrfalcons, and golden eagles build nests on cliffs. Harlequin ducks and red-breasted mergansers are seen on swift-flowing rivers. Dall sheep and wolves are active all year, while grizzly bears and arctic ground squirrels are frequently seen during summer but hibernate in winter.
The southern portion of the Arctic Refuge is within the boreal forest of interior Alaska. Beginning as predominantly treeless tundra with scattered islands of black and white spruce trees, the forest becomes progressively denser as the foothills yield to the expansive flats north of the Yukon River. Frequent forest fires ignited by lightning result in a complex mosaic of birch, aspen, and spruce forests of various ages. Wetlands and south-flowing rivers create openings in the forest canopy. Neotropical migratory birds breed here in spring and summer, attracted by plentiful food and the variety of habitats. Caribou travel here from farther north to spend the winter. Year-round residents of the boreal forest include moose, lynx, marten, wolverines, black and grizzly bears, and wolves."
The devastation drilling would create would be permanent; the solution to our energy crisis would be temporary. We have plenty of oil to last us long enough to find a more permanent solution, if a little more effort is spent, and if we can be a little more frugal in our consumption. -
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