What is Digg?154 Comments
- dknighton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+38I don't know about the rest of the country, but our local electric/water utilities is ALWAYS pushing ways for consumers to save money. They're not a "big greedy company". I hope they're more of a rule than an exception.
- RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -6/+42If it works, wouldn't it be likely that a big greedy business would sell it to other big greedy businesses who want to save money on their electricity bills? It is in every business's interest to lower costs and increase efficiency.
- Mejogid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27"invented at the turn of the century"
I'm sure internal combustion engines were invented before 2000. Also, I can't really see a conspiracy between air conditioning manufacturers and utilities. - heymark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22Humidity powered air conditioner, silly.
- Sam334, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19What about hot summer nights? Unless it stores some energy for use during sundown....
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20"One fatal flaw: Air conditioners use a LOT of electricity. Wikipedia estimates a maximum of about 50 watts per square meter for solar panels. Wikipedia also estimates the minimum power consumption for residential central airconditioning at a MINIMUM of 3 kW. That's 60 square meters of solar panel for the *smallest* house. You could cover your whole roof with solar panels, and just barely get enough to power your AC."
You know, Solar doesn't just mean "Solar Panels". For example, Sterling Engines are more effecient than Solar Panels, and can derive their heat differential from solar heat (such as a sun focusing parabolic mirror).
Technically, if you build a house to generate a heat differential between the attic (typically one of the hottest places in a house) and the basement (the coolest), you could generate power off of that alone. Dunno how effecient it would be, but at least it gets you thinking.
There's power all around us.. we just need to find novel ways of making it work for us. - mxpxpx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18sometimes its like duh, why am i not sitting around thinking of ideas like this, this is great and so obvious
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17One fatal flaw: Air conditioners use a LOT of electricity. Wikipedia estimates a maximum of about 50 watts per square meter for solar panels. Wikipedia also estimates the minimum power consumption for residential central airconditioning at a MINIMUM of 3 kW. That's 60 square meters of solar panel for the *smallest* house. You could cover your whole roof with solar panels, and just barely get enough to power your AC.
Anyway, the air conditioner in the article runs on any of several sources of energy, only one of which is solar. - Mejogid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I see where you're coming from, but companies look out for each other as little as they look out for consumers. If company A can make more money and get a bigger market share by selling solar powered air conditioning, it doesn't care if company B is losing money from the electricity. Large companies generally act to maximise their profits, and don't care who comes off worse (consumers, other companies, human rights etc.). Of course their are exceptions, but this is the rule.
- 4ooFdvr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This is true, but there are lots of enviroments where this would work and you could always have a backup connection to the power grid. Saving a little bit of energy is always better than none.
- siekosunfire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@syberghost
You don't need mirrors, just a thin wafer of glass with a holographic pattern to refract the light.
@geminitojanus
I'm curious where your 3 kW statement came from; I live in Florida, in a 4500 sq ft house and the average power consumption was 2.2 kWh on my last power bill. - will592, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7If only we could come up with some sort of solar powered heating as well!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I am pretty sure my utility would adopt this.. The people in my state own the utilities.. (the way it should be), they are not about making a proffit. Many residents have been paid to change their water heaters to smart ones that dont run all day. Some people in areas have been paid(in the form of utility credit) to use solar asst water heaters as well. SOme areas like in california, are just desperate for ways to reduces the strain of the load on their systems during peak usage.
And one of the single biggest expense in a home is cooling it - KissTheRing, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Not wanting greedy corporate types running our government is in no way Marxist, we the citizens pay the taxes, government should exists to serve us and not profit driven gluttons.
- elephantdog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6In most parts of the world the ground temperature below 3 meters to a few hundred meters is nice and cold. In fact I can just circulate water from my well past a heat exchanger to cool my house.
- BryceHutch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5No wonder no one was interested in my solar powered heater!
- HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5In the past I've used fans instead of AC.
The basement has the coldest air in the house and the attic has the hottest. I use fans in the attic to push the hot air out and create a flow of air from the basement, through the main floor and into the attic.
They have had solar-powered roof fans on the market for a number of years now and they work great.
Another great invention was the "wax powered piston." It was a piston that was filled with wax. When cool it contracted and when hot it expanded. These can be used on greenhouses to allow for proper ventilation. When it gets hot outside the wax in the pistons expand and the attached window opens. As the wax cools the weight of the window compresses the wax in the piston and the window closes. - chrisgiddings, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7What happens in places like Cincinnati, or St. Louis where it gets extremely humid and hot even when the sun isn't out? Living in Cincinnati myself, with family in St. Louis I visit sometimes, I have to say... this concept is slightly unappealing to me.
- bluehouse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Let's not forget a cloudy, 100 degree day with 98% humidity.
- AlanLivingston, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4While a tree may be a renewable energy source, in the tree hugger sense of the word, it's not a very efficient one.
- EricAnderton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Well, in the meantime, that crapload of solar panels could be used to provide a lot of shade... ;)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4My brother lives an hour away from Evansville. I spent a summer in his town, and the heat there is just brutal. 95 degrees with 90% humidity day in and day out plus 8 million mosquitos thrown in for fun. I really feel sorry for people stuck in that part of the country.
- Nighthawke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Well, the article just described an ammonia chiller in a nutshell.
Commonly used at ice rinks or warehouses that need low (0 to 40 below F) temperature chilling of products. Ammonia units are fine for slow steady drawdown of heat from the products needing to be frozen, but are poor at rapid chilling. Thats why ice rinks use regular refrigerant chillers for rapid freezing of water, then switch over to the ammonia units to keep it there.
One major hazard is the quantity of ammonia that the chillers use. Since ammonia displaces air and is toxic at certain levels, gas sensors and alarms are required by code.
The slowness of ammonia units are the main reason why they have not caught on in the HVAC business for business/residential cooling/heating of living spaces. Special equipment is needed to service them when they break down.
I don't know where solar power comes into their scheme of things to drive the chiller, perhaps the circulating pumps for the chilled water, or heating the ammonia tank. It don't take that much natural gas to raise the ammonia's temp to drive the unit. Hell, RV/Camper refrigerators are ammonia units and only use a regular pilot light to drive the cooling cycle. - BrainiakZ, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5In vegas.... it would not be that helpful. 110 at 2am in the morning. BUT it sure would save on the power bills! Im all for it!
- will592, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Similar problem in Phoenix...and I'm not really sure if you have humidity problems in july and august but we get by splendidly with a 'swamp cooler' (evaporative cooling). We really only have to run our A/C 2 months out of the year. A lot of the local builders here are really railing against swamp coolers because they 'waste water' but I really don't understand how it's better to run the A/C off of electricity than to use 3000 gallons of water a month to cool the home while we have thousands of acres of lush green golf courses dotting the city. Another thing that really bothers me about living here in the desert (and I''ve only lived here for 4 years so I'm a bit of a newbie) is that no one builds houses to take advantage of the climate. All of our houses are built above ground with paper thin walls and sealed up tight against the environment. Almost no one has a basement because it adds to the cost of building the home but those that do realize that you almost never have to air condition the space because it stays ~75 degrees all year long. I think the biggest problem with energy in the desert communities is that no one is willing to take a chance and build really energy efficient housing. Is it the same in Las Vegas?
- Hawk2007, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4having lived in south texas most of my life, i've looked into these units.
The ones I saw cost in excess of $20,000 and would only provide enough energy to cool half my home. - Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Solar hot-water to drive the cooling, solar-electric to power the.. electric...stuff.
- aeroplanedigger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5A/C does require more power than this can create at the moment. However, only because solar power is not in widespread use is it inefficient, the more people use it, the greater incentive there would be for businesses to spend in improving solar power.
This does have a certain duh appeal though does it not? - vhold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I have been inspired to invent...
Asphalt powered car. - mc1123, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The idea is good, but in the dead of summer in upstate New York, you can come to realize that not all hot days are that sunny. In fact, most of them are muggy and terribly humid.
- datagod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Where I live, it is +30 in the summer, -30 in the winter (celsius). I want a giant heat sink (millions of gallons of water) underground that I can freeze in the winter, then use it to cool my house in the summer and vice versa.
- HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8@Americafirst
You appear to be a new member and I see no comments (or Diggs) in your profile for Net Neutrality stories. - tesseract18, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is a much better idea then their solar powered flashlight.
- kellyschrock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We do have "solar powered heating". It's called "The sun", and it's highly effective.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"You're going to set up a parabolic mirror outside that focuses enough solar energy into a point to generate 3kw of power, in a county where burglars can successfully sue property owners for falling through their roof? Good luck with your forthcoming massive series of lawsuits."
The average home in America uses 1 to 1.5kW of power, depending on which sources you read from (there are about a dozen published reports, anywhere from 900kW to 1.7kW, but it's generally accepted to be between 1 and 1.5). So, unless you're powering two homes, I don't see the neccesity of having a more powerful unit than say 300kW (should be plenty to offset the cost of running an air conditioner; air conditioners don't run all day long, and cycle frequently to keep as energy effecient as possible).
That means the engine would need to be only 1/10th of the size you proclaim.
Secondly, Sterling Engines are not incredibly difficult to build, and they can be purchased if you cared enough to do it (aka searched for it, called around, etc). They're actually quite popular in a few European nations; Sweden has submarines that are powered via a form of Sterling engine.
So really, it is a possible way to power a home. The major constraint would be room, as it would require a fairly large reflector, but if you lived on a farm or away from a dense city, it would make all of the sense. Hell, if you lived in the desert and didn't mind the cost,you could build a small solar farm and go off the grid entirely.
Alternative energies are here, we've just got to come up with creative ways to use them.
@siekosunfire
I just quoted merreborn. Ask him where the 3kW number came from, because I have no idea. - RadiantBeing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Americafirst, please explain to me the money invested by big businesses into energy efficient products like Japan's hybrid cars, AMD's CPUs, Boeing's 787 Dream Liner, compact fluorescent light bulbs, etc.
In 2000, America's total energy use was identical to that in 1973 and yet the GDP per capita increased 74% between 1973-2000. Everybody wants energy efficiency. Whether to save money, increase national security, or to help the environment.
"Energy efficiency improvement has contributed a great deal to our nation's economic growth and increased standard of living over the past 25 years. Total primary energy use per capita in the United States in 2000 was almost identical to that in 1973. Over the same 27-year period economic output (GDP) per capita increased 74 percent. Had these reductions not occurred, consumers and businesses would have spent at least $430 billion more on energy purchases in 2000. "
http://www.asce.org/pressroom/news/policy_details.cfm?hdlid=169 - seanmac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Agreed, convoluted awkward sentences.
- drowe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Interesting. Here in Nebraska there's a place 'Arbor Day Farms - Lied Lodge' their cooling and heating systems are setup similar to this, except they use wood chips (renewal energy) made from old wood pallets and / or trees grown specifically for chipping purposes. The only main byproducts are CO2 (which trees convert to O2) and Ash (which can be used for certain uses in concrete making. Very efficient operation overall.
- aeroplanedigger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3They have not advanced because there has been no incentive. Were a major manufacturer to begin producing this, there would be major money-incentive to improve the technology. It is rather simple, solar power is inefficient because no one uses it, no one uses it because it is inefficient. Were people to begin using it more, people would begin improving its efficiency.
- motbob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The problem is that solar energy is not yet technologically advanced enough to power a high-energy air-conditioning unit unless you have a crapload of solar panels. This should change in the near future, however.
- XSforMe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's more like heat exchange is energy. You require two different gradients of temperature to extract the energy from the exchange. Trouble is that wherever it is hot, it is not easy to find a cool spot. The larger the temperature gradient is, the more heat is exchanged, the more energy it can produce.
- AlanLivingston, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Thermo, Second Law. Here's a link: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/seclaw.html
- Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why would you need to use solar-electric? Couldn't you heat water and use that as a heat source instead?
- AlanLivingston, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@maino82:
"heat is energy, yes. the problem is getting useful work out of that energy. the reason we can turn coal or natural gas or oil into useable energy is because it's high-quality energy, meaning there's a lot of energy to be had by burning a little bit of coal (an average of 6150 kilowatt-hours/ton according to http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html ). try getting that out of hot air that's only probably at about 95 degrees farenheit."
Now, that just doesn't make sense. You were heading well with your first two sentences and then, apparently, your thinking ran straight into a tree. You seem to be confusing the concept of moving heat from one reservoir (the room your trying to cool) to another (wherever you exhaust the heat, usually outside) with the concept of how much energy a substance has. Two very different things. - dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2 New infrared solar panels are much more efficient, I think I've read in the 20 to 30% range if infrared and visible light is used.
If they are available in the flexible roof shingle type, even better. - NJank, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2how's the Earth as a heat sink sound?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_heating - willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2FTA, Broad Air Conditioning in China is producing and selling these.
So much for "big business" conspiracies - CosmicJustice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2How about taking a low tech approach. How many people run their AC if it's just a little warm outside? Before AC people used awnings, shade trees, fans. You can even use the wind by opening windows only on the upwind and downwind sides of the house, creating a natural draft through the house. If it cools down significantly at night were you are, try opening up all of the windows and letting the house cool down. You can sleep under a blanket if it gets cold. Close the house up in the morning and draw the shades. It will take hours before the house heats back up to the point that you need to turn on the AC.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yeah I watched a show on building Dubai's indoor ski slope, and they were very concerned about their entire ammonia chiller system. They actually ***** it up a little bit and had to re-check the entire system even before it was pressurized for testing. Ammonia in an enclosed area = potential gas chamber.
- imnotquitesure, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sell it as a hybrid and it might catch on.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 148 discussions
Check out the new & improved 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is