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- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29If you WANT to be a software engineer, it's the best job for you- because you like doing it. I hate these "best job" things, the best advice I give to people is if they have the opportunity to do something they like- persue it.
- ddyVT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20They didn't include "lots of web surfing" in the description of Software Engineer!
- Roger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21Software engineers aren't necessarily programmers.
- BigPapi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20As a software engineer all I can say is this. My friend is a translator for a professional baseball player. All he does is hangout as part of the player's entourage wherever they go and he doesn't have to pay for anything. That my friend, is the best job in America.
- blueigloo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18SHHH - dont let our secret out!
- ModernDayDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17It's called research!
- manitcor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15exactly software engineering isn't really coding, there is coding involved though generally due to your skill and experience your not coding boring data access routines or long init classes. Your more often writing the framework code that the other lower level developers will use as well as doing any code work that is more complex that the junior programmers cant handle or would take them 2x as long to do. A lot of an engineers time is also spent talking to the business and designing the overall project as well as providing technical direction and specifications to the rest of the team. Depending on the type size and scope of the project this may be a role independent of the architect or it may be the same role. You may also have senior and junior engineers depending upon the size of the project.
I work on a small team with one very junior programmer/administrator and a more senior programmer who also acts as the connection to the business side. Its good to have him because we are such a small team I often do the artichect work as well as engineering and anything beyond basic UI interaction I have to code. - spiritflare1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I don't agree completely with their metrics. Having worked in the IT industry for 10 yrs, I know from discussing with my colleagues and others that about the only positive aspect of the job is the money - Many IT people are transitioning their careers to other professions like teaching, etc, because the stress is just not worth it. Also for a lot of software developers/engineers, it's not a walk in the park either - they spend hours glued to their monitors writing code to meet deadlines, and i can't find many that actually enjoy their job. I wonder which Computer/IT analysts the Money.com researchers talked to for their survey. The realworld IT analysts that I know carry pagers, go crazy doing deskside support; and for many senior IT staff, do weekend change windows, and respond to 2am network outages. They might have to come up with a 50 worst list.
- DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Software engineers are above IT people, man. They build the software that the IT people use.
- CaughtThinking, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11the computer industry is notoriously liberal in its terminology. these days people who install php image galleries call themselves "programmers". it only gets worse from there.
- ivachen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12All software engineers start from programmer, and I won't consider system engineers to be software engineer as their knowledge is intergration, but not the creation of softwares.
And of course, every job can be boring especially if you hate what you are doing. - dan4prez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12"Jobs at the biggest companies tend to be less creative (think Neo, pre-Matrix)"
Haha, great reference. - capn_caveman, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17What a crying shame in our society that grade school teacher, fireman, & police officer can't make this list. Most underappreciated / underpaid careers ever.
- JamesGHill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Why do they have to go and tell people this? I don't need more competition in my line of work! :-)
Being an engineer sucks. Go away! Go away!
(And in a serious note, you've got to do your time like any other job to get into a higher pay scale. I had a few jobs that were in the 'average' before I broke past $100K/yr.) - spc2226, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12IT stands for "I Tried". Can't cut it as a CS major? Reload printers with paper for the rest of your life with a job as an IT!
- ModernDayDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I'd like to know what "large software companies" you're talking about. I've had friends that interned at Microsoft, Amazon, Cisco, Xerox, and Google. None of them were making 80k as interns. Stop spouting off crap.
- CosmicJustice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Just because a job is vital doesn't mean that it requires a rare skill set. If a million people can do a job it's not going to be high paying no matter how vital it is, because there is a larger pool of candidates than slots.
- approxinfinity, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Hmm.. I wonder if Money Magazine will have Eye Surgeon as their top job when it sees +40% job growth in 10 years when everyones eyes burn out. Eh well.
Working on a computer all day has it's detractions -
- no exercise
- your senses are being deprived
- your hours are "flexible" (we know what that means)
- your actions are easily monitored
plus, you're making the world more complex under the guise of making it more simple; the futility of it all catches up to some.
The computer, in the end, is just a tool among many tools. Yeah, ok a special tool. But it's what you're actually doing with it that counts. When you're at a software company, sometimes it feels like a bunch of drunks hanging out talking about their favorite booze, while someone else far away is drinking a scotch on the rocks on the beach, the way it was meant to be done. - phaed, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10software engineering != IT
- ModernDayDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Hold on tight. There's a reason people drop out.
- milkfilk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I hate the "staring at the monitor" saying. That's way too low level. On some level, we're all stuck staring out our eyes but somehow that's no big deal. You're staring into a monitor only if you're not getting the higher level stuff the monitor has inside of it. Some people just see for(blah; blah;) as text and other people see a loop.
I've been staring at a monitor for 6 years (including PC games) and I just got my eyes checked. No change for my contact prescription and little change for my glasses (I could have skipped it but my frames were bending). I think it has to do more with exercise, genetics and age. Even with my heavy CRT use (half of the 6 years).
Yeah sure, coders spend a lot of time typing. But a lot more time whiteboarding, sitting in meetings, working from home and maybe doing the IT stuff themselves (run cables). You have to actively exercise for sure if you sit a lot in any job. A lot of different jobs in the information area sit in front of computers. It's something you have to get over, can you sit in front of the TV? Do you think one is more "pathetic" than the other? Then, maybe avoid it. Your call.
Prepare for blanket statements. Whoever said developers are above IT needs to be shot. IT orders their own stuff, they get the toys. IT gets away with stuff. They might be a huge exception in some cases (which developers envy), like wear shorts, play video games all day and as long as the servers stay up no one cares. But I'd say it has to do more with the company than the job or person. Maybe all three. I dunno.
Software is soft. You can change it a lot. Which means it's complicated and squishy. Hardware is hard, it breaks. You fix it and it hurts when it lands on your head. Generalizations are stupid. This article is stupid. I am stupid. Stupid is stupid ... whatever, this conversation could go on forever. - lysdexic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Great observation. I've been a software programmer and engineer for ten years now. I'm so freakin' tired of it that I'm in the process of changing careers to something that I enjoy doing; working less hours, for myself, and making more money.
- tuxidomasx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8average salary = 80k? wow. they must take into account the overall average, including people who have like 25 years of experience and make 6 figures.
entry level is around $40-50k for my area.
coding is fun, but the best job is relative and will always be getting paid for doing something you like to do IMHO. - Dobriak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Couldn't agree more. Leaving GoDaddy and joining a startup was the best thing I have ever done, careerwise. Call me a control freak, but I really like running the show in a small company, as opposed to being nobody in the big company.
- SweetsGreen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I wish I got the average :(
- burke, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I heartily disagree. I love writing code. I'm not a software engineer though, so I can't say I'd continue to enjoy it if I did it day in and day out for 40 years.
- manitcor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6it all depends on where you are, your skill level and knowledge base. Like the IT side of things you can be a jack of all trades/generic coder or you can specialize in a particular articheture, platform or methodology. In my experience (close to 10 years in software development and the last 3 as an engineer/artichect) I quite enjoy my job. However I spent many years as a contractor which has given me the ability to not fear change (which many people do). If I find myself in a situation I do not like (bad company, bad project, bad manager) I get up and I make a change rather than sit and be miserable. Most of the time I'm rewarded with a better position, more money or some other appealing factor.
Of course to increase you chances you have to stay on the top of your game, you need to know the latest technologies and whats coming down the line. All to often I run across developers who are unhappy with their job doing mid-level C# or VB programming and they complain that they cant even find other work. Surprise, the lower level programming and IS jobs are being farmed out to India ad being taken over by H1Bs left and right. If you want to stay competitive and make sure you have a good job you can be happy in you have to put in the work to stay at the top of your class. If not, your stuck and there's no one to blame but yourself. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Plus you have to figure in the relative cost of living. 80K while it might be FANTASTIC money in the middle of the Ozarks proably won't get you very far in Manhattan, NY or Los Angeles, CA.
- gmerin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6just happy I have a job.
- bribera, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6move someplace with a higher cost of living - I'm sure this study doesn't adjust for that.
- DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yes, software engineering != IT. But yeah, most developers in the industry ARE self-taught. There's nothing wrong with that. Most of the big software companies hire based on your ability to think, problem solve, creativity, etc. not degrees. If you're a good programmer you should be able to learn whatever language/tools you need to use easily.
- dbre2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+680k my ass. I'm starting to tire of these "salary surveys" where they don't list how the numbers are calculated. Start posting a breakdown of salary by years of experience, age (yes, age of person), location, size of company, and skills. Does this figure include other benefits as well?
- ModernDayDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I personally think IT and Software Enginering are two very different things. I think they are referring to people that actually take part in the software engineering process. From requiements gathering to code maintenance, the full circle. IT people wouldn't generally fall into that.
- stupidclese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Teachers aren't allowed incentives for being good, because if you start rewarding them for being good , you might start firing them for being bad. The teachers' unions have our public school systems by the balls. It's like a communistic monopoly. They are as responsible for the dumbing down of America as Bush's 'no child left behind'.
- Arngautr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Software engineering beats international rock star? Well I guess I'm entering the right field, though my pay is only 54.61% of the average (not really).
- punkcoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm guessing part of getting the average is getting the low end, like the 45k you make, then you get the high end, I currently make six figures (have been a software engineer for 9 years), and I'm sure there's higher and lower than that, and in the end you average it out and come to 80k. Hopefully people understand you don't start out at that. When I started out I was making 29k, took 4 years to make it to 40k, then I job jumped a couple times, gaining about 10 - 20k for each jump, until where I am now make 100k+.
- ArmchairAthlete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5If you think you're gonna land a good software developer job easily skipping college, good luck. You're making a big mistake. They'll take the guy who went to the school they did, easy to tell that he's seen (to some extent) what they need him to rather than trust a guy who says he taught it all to himself after cramming for interviews somewhere.
- thbt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It probably makes the article more interesting if they're generous with the figures. Makes the average schmuck oooh and ahh about how great these top 10 jobs must be.
- tkerwin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Looks like someone mixed up median and mean again.
- Sagarian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4True, but you'd probably agree that being a truly GREAT teacher is a rare skill set, and one that you'd have to pay extra for to ensure that you have consitently high quality teachers.
So to me, the original poster's point is valid, which is that it's a shame that we as a society don't place higher value on high quality teaching skills but instead are willing to pay peanuts and get monkeys. - BadgerOU, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4of course they take into account people with 25 years experience. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an average. With an entry of $40-$50k, you expect salaries to only increase from there with experience.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4All of the people you just listed get plenty of benefits that other careers don't get. It can be difficult or impossible to fire them. Excellent medical care even after retirement. Pensions (in the case of school teachers, the pension can sometimes be MORE than their annual salaries were when they were working).
I don't feel bad for teachers or anyone else in any of those jobs. If money was that important to you, you should have gotten a job in another career. It's not like you didn't know what the deal was going in. Further, there is nothing particularly more heroic or altruistic about going into the teaching field or the police work field. - JamesGHill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I hear the "you're only an engineer if..." thing about every six months from some moron who thinks taking a test means something, to which I reply...
"So you'd rather pass a test than have a higher salary?"
Retort? - JamesGHill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Phaed != Employed
What? Don't get angry 'cause its true. ;-) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3haha yea. If you're just going into software engineering for the money then you will get eaten up fast by all the competition. You have to stay on top of things by staying up to date with the technology and learning the new skill sets when need be. You really have to have a passion for the subject.
- raptorGT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yeah, that's too bad though, because for the past few years, all our software is being written in ***** INDIA! Money Magazine obviously has their heads up their asses when it comes to the IT field. This field sucks, the management sucks, not to mention the quality of support for these pieces of crap we're forced to use for network infrastructure. The stress from having at least 100 pissed off clients yelling at you that they can't get on the network drives me to drink almost every night. Not to mention the rest of the typical users calling me, telling me the network services suck and that it causes their computers to detect new hardware. What the hell kind of ***** is that? I see this every day, have been in the IT field for several years and worked for some of our larger companies we've come to know quite well. Since our jobs are more rapidly exported nowadays, the only people benefitting from low stress levels, a decent wage, and a happy family are NOT the ones living here in America.
- djdole, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@roger
That would totally depend on the views of the person's interests.
But since you personally believe it would be boring, then don't become a Software Engineer.
It's that easy. - ArmchairAthlete, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Best job for who? Only for certain people.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Haha yea, I see this all the time especially since I am a senior in high school and everyone is deciding what they wanna be in life (or at least what they want to do in college). Most people are aiming for those, "big salary" type jobs like lawyer or doctor. When I ask them why they want to be that they say, "the money is good." These people want to be stuff and they don't even know what they will be actually doing in that area of work. Rarely ever will you see people go to college to study something they actually enjoy doing.
- mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Thats odd, not many get that 'average' salary...
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