What is Digg?97 Comments
- doafhat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"google.cn search: "evil chinese emporer" = 536,000 results
google.com search: "evil chinese emporer" = 1,840,000 results
I sense sensership!"
I sense poor spelling! - MonkeyBoy1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2
What a disgrace. Google should be ashamed, and no, I don't agree that giving a limited set of results is less evil than no results at all. Google are colluding with the Chinese governemnt to give their citizens false
propaganda. Better to have priciples than to sacrifice them for a quick buck. - RyeBrye, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I did a less comprehensive comparison on a blog entry I posted today:
http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2006/01/26/the-world-according-to-googlecn/
The funny thing is to do the image search for "tiananmen square" on both sites... Oh - and you can make your English google.com censor results too - just tack on "&meta=cr%3DcountryCN" to the end of the search URL (you may have to edit it if you already have a meta, or if you have a different country code in there) - redthirteen, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Are we afraid of China?
Most European journalists, North American journalists, western journalists and foreign governments bend over backward to the Communist Chinese Government on human rights issues, China military buildup in Asia region, espionage against western countries and world economic issues. Foreign governments are on their knees and lower their heads to please the Communist Chinese Government. Are the foreign governments afraid the Communist Chinese Government? Are the foreigners the spineless SOB that the Communist Chinese Government talked about?
Are the foreigners selling their souls to the Communist Chinese Government so that they could make a few dollars?
Are we afraid of China? - ericscampbell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Google: http://google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=17795&topic=368
Google does not censor results for any search term. The order and content of our results are completely automated; we do not manipulate our search results by hand. We believe strongly in allowing the democracy of the web to determine the inclusion and ranking of sites in our search results. To learn more about Google's search technology, please visit http://www.google.com/technology/index.html
Gotta love it when a corporation wraps itself in words like "democracy" & gets burned - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Actually, these filtered results aren't NEARLY as bad as they have been made out to be. A few were apalling, but it is very interesting what *is* allowed to be shown. This whole "Google is terrible because of this" thing needs to stop. Google does not have political clout in China to make sweeping reforms in the country. They are a corporation with obligations to their shareholders, not to some self-righteous cause that a lot of people seem to think they should.
If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at China for mandating the censorship. It isn't as if the Google execs thought to themself, "You know, let's screw China over, today. That will surely help our PR!" - saintStephen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Because their entire traffic is being filtered through china's "Great Firewall".
- eyrieowl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1interesting. although mostly i found it interesting to see what pages google.cn DOES allow. more than i'd have expected, to be honest.
- racerxyz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Google has done evil. Larry and Sergey are acting like communists. (BTW, China is really facist and has always been since 1949, except maybe when Mao was in power, then it was an Empire ruled by Emporer Mao). I lower my head in shame.
- mystice30, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's not like American news organizations are not as guilty as Google for regionalizing information. How deep was coverage for the tsunami or the south asian earthquake over there in the USofA? wake up to the fact that the "democracy" you are so proud of merely describes the blinders you yourselves have put there. You have no moral right to judge the Chinese people if they are content within their ignorance. Falun Gong? Google should censor Paris Hilton.
- peregrine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Google.
What are you thinking take a stand fight China. They cannot touch you in America your fine. So what if you loose some revenue your an comapny built on good ideas for doing what is right.
And allowing Communism and censorship control you is wrong. Dangit google stop censoring. Fight for the people.
I think its said best here.
"If your not a part of the solution your part of the problem."
Google welcome to the problem.
~ - garg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why can't the chinese people just go to google.com? Is google.com banned in china?
- Wolven, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Does America decide what is good, and what is evil? Have we decided that since we're the "good guys," and above reproach, that we can decide for other countries what they can and can not have?
Think on this. Our own government censors things from us. For what they consider matters of security. Yet most of us support our government still. I digress. Let me come to the focus of this post I think it makes more sense to go ahead and have all of the power of Google (TM) accessible to the Chinese, because then they can search for things like "proxy" and "bypassing the firewall of China" and similar things.
Has anyone considered that it's possible that the most freedom-sided, difficult thing they could do is to take a public slam, in order to give their very powerful tool to the Chinese citizens? It takes a lot of guts to risk public opinion by doing the right thing. By censoring a little, where the Chinese government can be appeased, they allow so much for power to the people. Google(TM) really *is* a damn good search engine, and I think that by giving proper lip service to the people over there in power, with whom I do *not* agree, they can be a useful part of the move for China's "freedom."
You want to show you are angry? Use a different search engine. I won't. Because the best tool for searching is already in my hands. I think it's only right that the same tool, even in a minutely limited fashion, get into the hands of the Chinese citizens.
So sit down, remember that America isn't perfect, and that the American government is currently trying to look at *your* search results, and Google(TM) is defending what they feel to be your best interests. Quit looking at the small picture, and look at the big one. Google(TM) didn't do for the Chinese what they thought the average American would think best. They did what *they* thought was best. If any of you are stockholders, I encourage you to bring it up at the next meeting.
That is, after all, the American way. - MechaKevinRose, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the party.. or GOOGLE?
Control of Information and History
The Party controls every source of information, managing and rewriting the content of all newspapers and histories for its own ends. The Party does not allow individuals to keep records of their past, such as photographs or documents. As a result, memories become fuzzy and unreliable, and citizens become perfectly willing to believe whatever the Party tells them. By controlling the present, the Party is able to manipulate the past. And in controlling the past, the Party can justify all of its actions in the present. - bernardroth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How about this comparison:
http://static.flickr.com/35/91692466_326ec23352_o.jpg - -=IRonGRundy=-, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"The Falun Gong are a bunch of fruitcakes anyway."
So how does this justify Google aiding the communist regime in censoring Genocide?!!
How can we make the same damn mistakes we made just only a little more than half a century ago?
Wake up...condoning this kind of crap effects the whole international community. - piterwilson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google, shame on you.
- drakaan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Do an image search on google and goggle china for tienanmen.
Here's what I wrote them in the feedback form...
---
This page begins:
"Does Google ever manipulate its search results?
The order and contents of Google search results are completely automated. No one hand picks a particular result for a given search query, nor does Google ever insert jokes or send messages by changing the order of results..."
The government-requested censorship of particular subjects seems (to me) to be manipulation (To move, arrange, operate, or control by the hands or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner) of search results.
Yesterday, that same entry began:
"Google does not censor results for any search term. The order and content of our results are completely automated; we do not manipulate our search results by hand. We believe strongly in allowing the democracy of the web to determine the inclusion and ranking of sites in our search results. To learn more about Google's search technology, please visit ..."
Does Google plan on introducing new language in the near future regarding the manipulation of search results in response to the requests of various governments? - Incognito, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You have to get into bed with the devil to do business in China now a days.
Google is growing fast and its making mistakes. Not nearly enough to doom it, but talking about freedom annd democracy. Well business is just double talk anyways.
Googgle talk and video aren't that great either. But you take the good with the bad. - dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Horrible..
Another (albeit negligble) thing, the search results on the chinese site almost always seemed slower by around 0.1 second (0.05 to 0.15 is quite a lot when theres that many searches..), might be coincidence, but I don't think so..
Also, since adding &meta=cr%3DcountryCN applys the censorship to the UK version, does doing &meta=cr%3DcountryUS apply the US search results to the chinese version....? (I doubt it, but you never know....)
- Ben - geminem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i read the article and i noticed this part where it said [start quote] "(this behavior resembles Google.de's self-censorship when searching for e.g. stormfront.org, or Google.fr's censorship of ety.com)." [end quote].
i'm wondering what site ety.com is. i'm pretty curious. i was able to visit stormfront, it's a forum promoting white pride?, but what's ety.com? - pijalu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0ADV: Fan boy 29y - good look - sea. for a new relat. with search eng. answ. digg.
- mrnoob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Wow, that is disgusting.
- raymondo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0To MonkeyBoy who posted
"Google are colluding with the Chinese governemnt to give their citizens false
propaganda."
How is Google giving false propaganda?!?! Does Google give you false propaganda because maybe some sites of which contain misconstrianed truths or different opinions are rated higher than others which may be more factually accurate. Does your Library force propaganda on you because they dont have any copies of certain book titles?? The abscence of information does not necessitate propaganda, the spreading of lies and half-truths does.
The people who write and promote propaganda are responsible for it. You will still be exposed to the pages google.cn returns on the normal google us, they will just be ranked differently.
Ray - auralsix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"The point I am trying to make is, why do we hold Google to a standard we ourselves cannot even hold on to?"
i think the difference is, most of us don't make statements to the effect that we're changing the world for a better place, opening barriers to information and such. it's google who is holding themselves to that standard, and that's where the tragedy lies. i'm a self-interested bastard, but i don't pretend to be otherwise ...
the crux of all this, and the reason it resonates with so many people is .. if google's willing to make concessions like these, what other concessions will the be willing to make down the road? - Mediaright, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You know, as much as I hate censorship, Google kinda had to business wise. China is too big a market not to go into. They'd be banned form China if they didn't block results. Listen to TWiT 25 for more on this. I think Google should be scolded for it and could have shown more opposition to this, but I don't blame them entirely for this.
- usermac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Use "Safari Enhancer" for Mac OS X to change your default search from Google to anything else.
- Philipp_Lenssen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Wolven writes:
> I think it makes more sense to go ahead and have all
> of the power of Google (TM) accessible to the Chinese,
> because then they can search for things like "proxy" and
> "bypassing the firewall of China" and similar things.
Ironically, the search results for [bypassing the firewall of china] are censored on Google.cn (you can see it by looking at the footer disclaimer). On the other hand, you can already search for this on Yahoo.cn -- so what exactly is Google improving? - zamolxis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0do no evil? yeah right! google is just another greedy corporation
- Continuum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@mechakevinrose
This is not Orwell in action. What we have is almost the exact opposite, logging everything, not being able to get rid of anything. The Party actively changed history as a means to an end, Google simply is filtering it to comply with laws of the country.
Comparing a search engine with a totalitarian government is absurd. If you don't like it, use a different search engine. Better yet, make your own. - nucleocide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I find this sick and disturbing.
- pillfred, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You self righteous little bitches, The problem is in the fact that china is a communist gov. You all love to hate at the drop of a dime. hopefully this gets read before it (this comment) is censored because you don't like it. next time think about who's nut's you jumping on, they are corp. after all.
- ericscampbell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is a quote from Google's official blog:
"For Internet users in China, Google remains the only major search engine that does not censor any web pages." -- September 27, 2004
[still] available here:
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2004/09/china-google-news-and-source-inclusion.html - auralsix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google: "We're not evil .... for the right price."
(not that i have anything against evil) - jaybones1515, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is actually pretty good. Type Falun Gong and yea, the sites are bais. Type Falon Gong, or Falung Gung, or gong china, etc. and the results are the same. This is communism cracking, folks..one brick at a time.
STEWIE FOR GOVERNOR! - flattmeister, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0True, but not in America and now we have the Bush administration which seems to want to do business the same way China does. Just keep you eyes on the news, because it is only a matter of time before Bush gets his way again and Google will be censored in America as well.
- satellite360, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@flattmeister
"Don't you guys see what is really scary about this? If Google can do this for China, the Bush administration can likely argue that Google should also censor pornography from their search results in American, so that children will not have find it. It sets a dangerous precendent because now Google will not be able to argue that it is impossible to censor search results. Bush will just say, " Oh yea? You did it for China!""
This is not a precedent set by Google! Search engines have been censoring results for years in many countries around the world - long before Google even existed. - satellite360, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@mister.joshua
"Why not just view the Google cache? You could find the censored site on Google, and then view it on Google.
Oh...you can't do that, because Google now censors."
The Google cache was blocked by the govt long ago - again, nothing that Google are responsible for. - paulzg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google is The diet coke of evil.
- racerxyz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Oh yes, I forgot to mention, their HYPOCRITES. They fight the USA gov't "tooth and nail" but bow to facist regime of a dead Mao.
- fermi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0f a buncha google
- zerosum, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Don't be evil" ... ahh yes, but there is no Don't in capitalism
- pingviini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0well, I broke my leg and feel like sitting around a propaganda tower till it heals me.
"China grows larger"
"We are the red guard"
I love CnC:Generals!!!
on a more serious note, do a search on tiananmen square
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&q=tiananmen+square&spell=1
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&cr=countryCN&q=tiananmen+square&spell=1
guess which is censored - ericscampbell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The link: http://google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=17795&topic=368
is now off line.
It was live earlier today (1-26-06).
That's pretty sickening.
FYI: this is the text that Google just "deleted"
"Google does not censor results for any search term. The order and content of our results are completely automated; we do not manipulate our search results by hand. We believe strongly in allowing the democracy of the web to determine the inclusion and ranking of sites in our search results. To learn more about Google's search technology, please visit http://www.google.com/technology/index.html - auralsix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0the more i keep thinking about this, the angrier i get. the excuse google uses for it's willingness to divorce itself from its founding ideals is a poor one. google claims that a lack of china penetration would be an even greater perversion of its ideals than conceding to censorship. yet, if the whole point behind information accessibility is self-empowerment, how is this serving any beneficial purpose to chinese citizens? there are already plenty of search engines in china willing to serve up insubstantial information. yet, the information that matters remains elusive.
this move by google is a detriment to the chinese. had google made a stand and sacrificed early market entry, they could have served as a rallying call for a more transparent society. yet, they didn't and now, who has the capacity to invoke that sort of change? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@altjeringa: You are wrong (on your last point). MS and Yahoo "merely" handed over their indexes. Not private user material. They didn't give a file that says "Johnny looked up Transformers at 5:13, then started looking at digg 10 minutes later..."
- zarex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Nice. Not only do they bend over for China and censor the pages, but they also LIE ABOUT IT.
Eat ***** Google. I'd love to see the google fanboys at slashdot explain this one. - satellite360, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Get a grip people! I am living in China and people I have spoken with here take no issue with Google over what they have done. We all recognise that it is the Chinese government that is "doing evil", not Google. Given a choice of no Google or a Google that censors search results we all prefer an Internet with Google thank you very much! Google pulling out of China would have pleased many people on Digg - would that have been a victory for freedom of speech? And for whom?
We are still able to use Google.com and see all the same results as you do in the uncensored world. Our real problem is not getting accurate search results it is getting access to these sites once our search engine has found them - these sites are blocked not by Google but by the Chinese government.
Take the time to read what Chinese Internet users make of this debacle here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4650158.stm
(A site which incidentally is blocked here and which I need to use a proxy to access) - mosaic07, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am disappointed to find that Google has chosen to help sustain
China's ruse to obscure the facts regarding the genocide incurred upon
the people of Tibet. Why would a business interested in practicing
goodness choose to bow to a country that the UN regards
as a large scale violator of human rights. Does enabling China to continue
to censor the facts regarding the murder of over a million Tibetan
citizens make Google an accomplice to these crimes? this decision
also sets a mighty precedent for future online ethics practices.
Google should reconsider their alliance with the Chinese government,
and reassert the virtue of freedom of information and human justice
even at the expense of accessing another 'free market'. - MattH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
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