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Santa Fe Whiners: Wi-Fi Equals Discrimination

blog.wired.com — Members of a Sante Fe group are claiming that they are "allergic" to Wi-Fi, and that failing to remove access points from public buildings amounts to "discrimination" against people with disabilities. A typical Wi-Fi router puts out a signal at around 3 watts. A typical FM radio station will output 10,000 to 20,000 watts.

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  • castevens, on 06/12/2008, -1/+295I'm allergic to *not* having internet access, and I consider it discrimination to remove Wi-Fi access points.
    • cawpin, on 06/12/2008, -2/+25I'm allergic to stupid people. Thankfully, I don't live in Santa Fe so I think I'll be ok.
      • trolleyfan, on 06/12/2008, -0/+23Could you let me know where you _do_ live - because I'd love to live in a place without stupid people...
      • idntunknwn, on 06/12/2008, -1/+17Wouldn't the Internet kill you?
      • archiecstll, on 06/12/2008, -1/+7Just avoid Florida as well and you'll be fine
        • buu700, on 08/26/2008, -3/+5And Texas of course, but I guess that need not be specified.
    • pazimzadeh, on 06/12/2008, -5/+6No that's just called addiction

      haha
  • suckanucka, on 06/12/2008, -29/+199How do people like this still exist? I blame Fox News for spreading mass retardation.
    • bdfariello, on 06/12/2008, -5/+27Hey there, don't give the human race too much credit now. Even without Fox news, people would still be highly retarded (though I can't say they're helping any).
      • suckanucka, on 06/12/2008, -2/+11You're right... I forgot segregation in the US ended only 40 years ago.
    • listrophy, on 06/12/2008, -24/+6Excuse me? There are some people out there with severe psychosomatic problems. I would know: my grandmother is one of them. She literally, actually, physically gets ill under certain circumstances which defy logical explanation. For example, she can't handle televisions because she knows they emit particles.... which is marginally true due to the fact that a CRT is, after all, a cathode ray tube. But then she subconsciously extrapolates this sickness to other technologies such as LCD and projection TVs. Yes, we've taken her to doctors, and she's on meds that help.

      The simple truth is: your incredulity is naive, suckanucka. Not everything evil in the world spawns from Fox News.
      • aliengoods, on 06/12/2008, -0/+15If you think people are going to give up WiFi because a very, very small segment of the population are off their rocker, and especially if you think they should have to give it up, you're the one who is naive.
      • DreKor, on 06/12/2008, -0/+26Your grandma took the appropriate course of action and got drugs to fix her craziness. She didn't sue to have everyone get rid of their TVs.
        • listrophy, on 06/12/2008, -7/+4Where did I ever indicate that these folks should get their way in terms of taking out the WiFi? Nowhere. I fully support the idea of keeping the WiFi in place and suggesting medication for these folks. Believe me, our family has learned that solving this problem isn't resolved by removing the offending stimulus, but rather treating the true source: the brain. Cripes, you people are quick to judge me.

          The reason I replied is to respond to the "mass retardation" comment. I don't take kindly to people calling a relative of mine retarded due to MSM brainwashing.
        • suckanucka, on 06/12/2008, -1/+3This is the Internet, word meanings are being changed. Your grandma isn't retarded by Merriam-Webster's definition, but your method of reaching the above conclusion says something about yourself. Sorry bud.
      • Orion682, on 06/12/2008, -0/+11I'm sorry, but if you really think that other people should be burdened by someone's psychosomatic problem, you're an idiot. If these people claim that wifi has some sort of observable physiological affect on them, then I'd like to see them prove it in a laboratory setting, in a double blind test, where they are alternatively told that there is and isn't wifi in an area (maybe even faking it by having a researcher browse offline websites to make them think they're online).

        If their body responds only when there is an actual wifi signal, then fine! Investigate it, catalogue it, and take appropriate measures to allow these people to function in society, and retain the ability to go to the library, etc. But if they can't then get them therapy and if they're suing for money, investigate whether this was a fraud scheme.

        Just because you're psychologically disturbed does not give you the right to impose your will onto others.
      • drunkmonkey01, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4"For example, she can't handle televisions because she knows they emit particles ... But then she subconsciously extrapolates this sickness to other technologies"

        sounds like shes afraid of floating particles and her brain turns that into actual symptoms. that's called a mental disease
      • tacofurysanchez, on 06/12/2008, -1/+2I think this guy just took exception to the complainers being called retarded. I don't think he was saying we should remove wi-fi for them. Just that it's a sickness...
    • thecatcantalk, on 06/12/2008, -0/+19I see you've never been to Santa Fe, lol. That's the city where you can take your dog to a groomer who gives Fido a "chakra cleansing energy massage" after "purifying" the room with "sacred sage smoke". Because dogs are OK with getting smoke in their noses, right?

      Those of us who DO live in New Mexico all exploded with laughter when we read this headline, I guarantee it.

      What a bunch of jodidos! /roflmao
      • boot20, on 06/12/2008, -2/+7My favorite are the gringos that REALLY want to be Hispanic or Native American. "Their" culture is being trampled by the man! The best is how they dress with their stupid southwest knit vests and their cowboy hats...barf.

        Why don't the stupid Santa Feans ever go to the Fiery Foods Show?

        / gringo
      • suckanucka, on 06/12/2008, -2/+2Well said...
      • Crosshare, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4I spent my summer growing up in Santa Fe and laughed my ass off seeing this. Spent many a times in that library too. Another hippy fruit loop for the city.
    • inkyblue2, on 06/12/2008, -1/+40these people are not fox news watchers, they're crazy desert hippies. i got into an argument with one of them over "wi-fi allergies" in a rock shop in santa fe last summer. it was the stupidest conversation ever.

      someone on slashdot had the right idea when this was posted there a few weeks ago: make some "wi-fi shielding crystals" and sell them to the hippies. problem solved.
      • trolleyfan, on 06/12/2008, -6/+2No, the solution is to actually *make* WiFi lethal to such people - or at least, contraceptive. On the whole, it's kinda a pity it doesn't do what they say...because then we wouldn't have to listen to them say it for very much longer...
    • Atomike, on 06/12/2008, -17/+5I'm amazed how many closed minded people exist - who can't stand to hear an opposing point of view from time to time. People who cry "Fox News is the devil!" are the same people can't accept the fact that some people think differently. ALL news is written by people - who ALL slant the news (including CNN, MSNBC, and your local paper). Don't decry Fox News alone. And don't fear things that are different. You look like a biggot when you do.
      • com2, on 06/12/2008, -1/+7It's just that FOX is a little more obvious than most with their agenda.
      • vtron, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1I'm amazed how many people exist that can't take a joke. Lighten up tough guy.
      • rationalist, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1You look ignorant when you misspell your tribe.

    • tkstock, on 06/12/2008, -16/+4Hey look everybody! I can get diggs by bashing Fox News on a totally unrelated story!!!

      dufus
      • greenvortex, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1Valid point, but still digging down for the unnecessary "dufus".
        • tkstock, on 06/12/2008, -1/+2As well you should - You're right. I rail against other people who unnecessarily call other people names then find myself doing it. It won't happen again, I promise.

          It does drive me crazy, though, that people seem to bash Fox News just to get digs, rather than get them on the validity of their own point. Bashing FNC is guaranteed diggs.
        • rationalist, on 06/13/2008, -1/+1Grow up, child. Or, at least go outside and expose yourself to some sunlight and perspective.

          Your value as a human being is not determined by the number of diggs you get.
        • tkstock, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1I have perspective and a cup of coffee every morning.

          "Your value as a human being is not determined by the number of diggs you get."

          Extremely true. So why do it?
      • Nitesmoke, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1its totally possible to bash fox and still get buried, for example:
        "Fox News sucks because they employ so many blacks."
    • Pete628, on 06/12/2008, -8/+3Love the comment...just remember having FOX...gives morons a place to congregate and get to know one another!!!
    • JettaMan, on 06/12/2008, -7/+14I'm no fan of Fox News, but to say something like this is up their alley is just wrong. This type of "discrimination" accusation is more likely to come from people on the far left.
      • rationalist, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1How ironic that the comment directly below, about right-wing tinfoil conspiracy theories, contradicts your assumption.
    • YogiWanKenobi, on 06/12/2008, -1/+2<sarcasm>What I want to know is how they can tell their Wi-Fi allergy symptoms from their Morgellon's, chemtrails sickness, and HAARP</sarcasm>
    • johnnyboy239, on 06/12/2008, -1/+3How did people like this EVER exist?
      • rationalist, on 06/13/2008, -0/+2Before the advent of science, EVERYONE existed like this. Now, only a majority of Americans exist like this.

        How is this any different than people insisting that a "soul" enters a single-celled egg at the moment it is fertilized by a sperm, and that the newly fertilized egg should thus be granted the legal status of "person"?

        How is this any different than the majority of Americans who deny the evidence of evolution and believe that if they pray hard enough to an imaginary white man in the sky, their team will win the sports competition?

        How is this any different than the people who deny or ignore the monumentally vast accumulation of evidence from thousands of expert researchers over decades working all over the world in different capacities for different governments, nonprofit organizations and other employers, which point to human activity as a primary cause of accelerated climate change?

        As long as our society denigrates science, critical thinking and reason, and glorifies dumb jocks, religious nuts, and homicidal generals, people like this will not only exist, they will thrive.
        • johnnyboy239, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1Ok, but there's really no reason for a belief like this, I mean all of those can be explained by saying alright you're going by what you believe in which is obviously a strict interpretation of the bible. So even if you don't agree with it you can at least understand why they think the things they do.

          This on the other hand is baffling, I can't honestly see where they are coming from with this.
        • cquinnd, on 06/14/2008, -0/+1The reason for a belief like this, or at least the background for it, goes back to the same kind of fears that have always been presented is the face of scientific advancement in ways and technologies that the average person has a hard time understanding, or choose to willfully ignore because they think they are not smart enough (or conversely think they are too smart) to have to learn the basic principles behind the tech they are afraid of.
  • somberlaine, on 06/12/2008, -3/+16Hell no!!!!!
    • fudged71, on 06/12/2008, -1/+1Hey! That wasn't a Will Smith impersonation! I don't know how to react!
  • drlha, on 06/12/2008, -0/+115If installing city wide WiFi drives these nutters out of Santa Fe, that can only be a good thing surely?
    • inspecality, on 06/12/2008, -2/+25It is a good thing.

      And don't call me surely.
    • xoineg, on 06/12/2008, -1/+1is a good thing for Santa Fe, but i dont want this ***** in my neighborhood..
    • GlassAgate, on 06/14/2008, -0/+1If they're driven out of Santa Fe, where are they going
      to go? I don't want them here.
  • 4degrees, on 06/12/2008, -1/+76i say prove the allergy then we can talk.... $10 says its psychosomatic in most cases.
    • textrant, on 06/12/2008, -1/+41$10 says its psychosomatic in ALL cases.
      Not including if your pacemaker is 802.11b complaint.
    • DanBoodro, on 06/12/2008, -6/+12$20 says they're just hippies.
      • Silentnite85, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1Where's cartman when you need him?
    • deadmoo, on 06/12/2008, -4/+48hippie-chrondriacs
    • BoneheadFarker, on 06/12/2008, -0/+40$50 says that they "discovered" their allergy because they once got a headache, looked around and saw a wifi-hotspot sign, then came to the "obvious" conclusion...
      • griz, on 06/12/2008, -1/+8HOLY CRAP, I have hands!! I'm allergic to my hands!!!
    • com2, on 06/12/2008, -0/+20What I can't figure out is if they have allergies than why do they need a wi-fi detector?
    • aflaks, on 06/12/2008, -0/+2Maybe they are just allergic to their peyote..
  • bcarl314, on 06/12/2008, -9/+40What about power lines? How much electromagnetic radiation do those give off? Let me guess, this is from some techno-phobic organization led be devout mormons?
  • TheUngod, on 06/12/2008, -1/+79It's not like this is a hard thing to test. Just put them in a room and turn a router on and off and see if they notice when this is happening. When they fail, their case will be immediately dropped.
  • phorty40, on 06/12/2008, -5/+25in related news. i am allergic to air , under certain circumstances when i want my way.
    • Redequlus, on 06/12/2008, -2/+0And likewise, I am allergic to you... so get off my planet!
    • RoflCoptah, on 06/12/2008, -0/+6yea, im allergic to stupid people, i need them to get out of my government
    • clharlem149, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3at least air is matter. last time i checked, wifi is energy. how are you allergic to energy?
  • Yareking, on 06/12/2008, -1/+111Im alergic to the sun but i dont ask nasa to take it down
    • santaliqueur, on 06/12/2008, -0/+8Not yet.
    • tapeworm77, on 06/12/2008, -0/+12Vampire!!!
      • Owwmykneecap, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4reverse Vampire!
      • GlassAgate, on 06/14/2008, -0/+1Where ever they live, I don't want to live.
        For one, I don't want to become a vampire.
        Wait, can vampires fly, when not in bat form?
        If so, then....that may change things....
    • CosmosCR, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3Well maybe you should stand up for your rights.
    • TheRunes, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1I get hives from both heat and the sun. I think the gods are discriminating against us. We need those things removed...
  • HillerMylife, on 07/24/2008, -2/+53This is clearly a case of discrimination against those who are allergic to frivolous litigation.
  • FredFredrickson, on 06/12/2008, -0/+26How could you be allergic to WiFi, when it uses the same technology as radio, cell phones, and the whole bit?
    • Murdats, on 06/12/2008, -0/+14they claim they are sensitive to very specific frequencies, basically the frequencies of the latest version of wireless technology that is becomming popular.
      • Stradenko, on 06/12/2008, -0/+17Yeah, I'm allergic to electromagnetic waves in the 315 nm - 280 nm wavelength range. Exposure results in skin discoloration, with extreme overexposure resulting in a terrible rash and eventually cancer. :(
        • digital11, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3Solution: Wear sunblock. :P
        • publiclurker, on 06/12/2008, -0/+6Move to Oregon, we never get any of that here.
    • TheBiggestGnome, on 06/12/2008, -0/+14I suppose they're allergic to 2.4Ghz cordless phones too?

      $10 says they yap on their phones all night, too.
      • akilleen, on 06/12/2008, -0/+12They must also be allergic to their microwaves as well.
        • Chakat, on 06/12/2008, -0/+10And water, considering that the whole point of why 2.4ghz is used in microwaves is because it's the frequency water molecules vibrate at. Their own bodies must be making them sick.
  • indiansfred, on 06/12/2008, -1/+52Why doesn't the city just issue tin foil hats for those folks?
    • deadmoo, on 06/12/2008, -1/+10That will actually help them receive the radiation more quickly.
      • vuke69, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7That's only if you wear them shiny side out.
    • CaptainBryan, on 06/12/2008, -1/+19Again, why doesn't the city just issue tin foil hats to these folks?
      • SamuelHenderson, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4Ok, I laughed at that one =D

        Nicely done!
      • ConceptJunkie, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1Seems like there could be a market for expensive Faraday cages, although the "Wifi-shielding crystals" idea mentioned above would probably work better.

        Really, they aren't allergic to Wi-fi, it just tinges their auras with an ugly yellowish-brown color.

  • simonsez21, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7Huh?
  • Zihuatanejo, on 06/12/2008, -31/+3And now you know how smokers feel.
    • RoboHobo, on 06/12/2008, -2/+23Because just like wi-fi, second hand smoke is perfectly harmless. Oh, wait.
    • logan074, on 06/12/2008, -2/+9Except smoking has health consequences and smells like *****.
    • rationalist, on 06/13/2008, -0/+3Stupid?
  • CVL4317, on 06/12/2008, -2/+5yea.. right....
    In before "intelligence-allergy discrimination"
  • jwprox, on 06/12/2008, -2/+19Knowing this country, they'll probably win a nice settlement.
    • GlassAgate, on 06/14/2008, -0/+1Very, very sad, but very, very true.
  • mokaone, on 06/12/2008, -3/+48anyone else surprised this wasn't an Onion story?
    • thecatcantalk, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4Anyone who lives in New Mexico :)
    • Terrin, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4Thats what I was thinking until I realized it wasn't
    • Chassit, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1I used to live in NM, no I am not at all surprised that this is a real story.
    • jessenoob, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1I wasn't surprised that by opening this article I would see it being compared to the Onion like nearly all the other stories.
    • tony23, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3No. I'm never surprised by stupidity.
  • ravamp3, on 06/12/2008, -12/+15WAY OF TOPIC, but - I need help guys and I know one of you knows... who's the short blond schizo comedian from the 80's..he was in Nerds or Porky's or something like that, he doesnt really talk just makes weird noises... What's his name!?!
  • nmnnotmyname, on 06/12/2008, -3/+31***** believable, I hope everyone floods their homes with WiFi signals.
    • CVL4317, on 06/12/2008, -0/+11Can they notice?
      • Atomic1fire, on 06/12/2008, -1/+5That might make for an interesting test like the medicine/sugerpill tests
        test the reactions to see if the wifi problem is in the head or an interesting medical case
        • Bith8654, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7Yeah we should probably get House in on this.
      • xerox, on 06/12/2008, -2/+1Will it blend?
      • Orion682, on 06/12/2008, -1/+3Have a bunch of geeks aim directional, amplified wifi transmitters at their houses.

        If they survive, they're lying ;)
        • vuke69, on 06/12/2008, -1/+2I say 10kW @ 2.4GHz

          They wont survive, but their still lying.
    • theblacknight, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1I believe the maximum legal wi-fi signal power is 1W omnidirectional....so it would take a lot to do much of anything.
  • ripple01, on 06/12/2008, -15/+6I tend to think most allergies are psychosomatic. Is it just me, or does it seem like most people who have major allergy problems are whiny, needy people in general?
    • turpenine, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4or they become needy because they allergic to damn everything? I am allergic to a lot but i don't wine about it. but also i just recently became allergic to stuff.
    • richiewrt, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7Most allergies are genuine allergies. I am very allergic to certian kinds of pollen and if I get arround it too much, my eyes pretty much swell shut. These people however, are nutcakes. I don't go arround suing to try and get all the tree's removed from my town just because I am allergic.
    • pyro789x, on 06/12/2008, -0/+2I usually forget that I get allergies in the summer until rubbing my nose after sneezing begins to hurt because I've managed to rub my nose raw.
    • tkstock, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1I don't think allergies are psychosomatic. I think the symptoms these people claim to have are, though. Or it's brought on by a condition known as hyperligititis.

      I used to be allergic to bees as a child - I'd get stung and develop hives - I don't think those were caused by my brain. I also have moderate seasonal allergies, and I can tell you that my eyes don't go crazy and goop all up because of my brain telling them too...
    • coolmanmax2000, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3I'm deathly allergic to just about every antibiotic... I don't think that it's my brain's idea to have me stop breathing and go into cardiovascular arrest.
    • rationalist, on 06/13/2008, -0/+2It's just you. You are allergic to science.
  • snagra, on 06/12/2008, -1/+96"It's not 1692, it's 2008. Santa Fe needs to embrace this technology, it's not going away."

    Props to the City Council.
  • Depravo, on 06/12/2008, -1/+31I'm allergic to people with idiotic notions. Remove them immediately.
  • isaactwito, on 06/12/2008, -9/+32This is the exact same as people who say they are "chemical sensitive" and will only eat organically grown things. I know this from working at an organic coop and these people are just stupid. How did these people manage in the 80s and such before coops were prominent? They didn't, because it's just not a real condition. It's just like this. People making up ***** to try to get something they don't understand changed, rather than learning anything. Idiocy is a problem.
    • Zarokima, on 06/12/2008, -3/+5Idiocy is not just A problem, it's THE #1 problem humanity.
    • Noein, on 06/12/2008, -3/+7Actually the claim about organic food is grounded in reality to some extent, I can personally attest to it. I am not a health freak and I wish I could just eat regular food since they are cheaper but there's not much I could do about my allergy.

      I did read about very rarely some people experience electromagnetic hypersensitivity. But if these people are fine with TV and radio then they are obviously lying.
      • sl9sl9, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1"I can personally attest to it" - because "testimonials" beat double-blind randomized trials any day, as every vendor of penis enlargement pills on the internet will attest to.
    • Ellipsys, on 06/12/2008, -1/+11You do know that there was a time, prior to organic coops, when ALL food was grown by what might be called organic standards today? You know, before people figured out it was profitable to feed the cow chunks of other cow, shoot them full of antibiotics/growth hormones etc... Before Dow and Dupont came up with chemical pesticides, it WAS possible to grow crops you. Your argument isn't making any sense to try and relate organic food to electromagnetic sensitivity anyway. Besides, chemical sensitivities have already proven to be real - think about it. Some people can walk by someone with a heavy perfume and not have any adverse effects, some will instantly get woozy and feel ill. Think about regular pollen allergies - some people stay stuffed full of claratin because of their system's histamine response, some people have clear sinuses throughout spring without doing anything at all. I'm not convinced that there's anything to a "Wi-Fi sensitivity" and it sure as hell isn't an "allergy" in the classic sense, but your arguments show more of a hatred for what you perceive to be luddite hippies, than any sort of rational thought.
  • prleet, on 06/12/2008, -0/+9bangs head against the monitor...
    • bushout, on 06/12/2008, -1/+2careful!! the electrons!
    • longbow486, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4You killed a pixel
      You Bastard!
    • FLarsen, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1There's faint electromagnetic radiation coming from your monitor. Don't bang your head against it, run! OR YOU WILL DIE!
  • warlokaz2004, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7Someone needs to tell them if they are allergic to wi-fi to go put on their tinfoil hats.
  • nsundeepreddy, on 06/12/2008, -0/+8I am allergic to this BS. Can I demand these people stop all this crap?
  • ericjohnson0, on 06/12/2008, -0/+8Is there any real proof to any of these people's claims? Anything?
  • BadseedJR, on 06/12/2008, -3/+13Why was I not surprised to see a pony tail on that second guy who "gets chest pains?"
  • BXRWXR, on 06/12/2008, -0/+21I'm allergic to XML.
  • bdfariello, on 06/12/2008, -0/+23I used to install wireless access points all around my campus before I graduated, and one of the Deans of the college (with a PhD, mind you) was afraid that the WAP was going to shoot out lightning at him, so we had to move it (we moved it to just the other side of the wall so he couldn't see it: no complaints yet).

    It's incredible how resistant to technology some people are.
  • xtinamo, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4Sorry to ask, but I'm at work and unable to watch the video, do they explain what exactly their allergic symptoms are? Hives, itchy eyes, or any physical ailments at all?
    • CVL4317, on 06/12/2008, -0/+10"I get chest pain and it doesn't go away right away," he said
    • veriix, on 06/12/2008, -1/+7Open sores which formed into vaginas.
  • bromac, on 06/12/2008, -0/+473 WATTS?

    You mean 300 MILLIWATTS. And that's beefy for a access point. Most are around 100-200mW tx power. Your laptop puts out a measly 50mW or less. In fact, you're limited to 1W in the states as far as FCC regs. go.

    These whiners are coming out of the woodwork trying to blame almost every known disease on radiation, when we receive more space radiation every day than you'll ever get from consumer electronics. Then they have no problem listening to their radios and watching TV which puts out tens of thousands of watts. Selective paranoia, really.

    Of course distance plays a huge factor on the actual radiation exposure, but the bottom line is that 300mW of signal is negligible as far as health concerns go.
    • OrangeTide, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7A flashlight emits radiation too. A sort of radiation our eyes are able to detect.
    • beersnob, on 06/12/2008, -0/+10I was going to say...I'd love to have a 3W wireless router! Actually, since I'm a licensed amateur radio operator, I can legally use more power on some of the Wi-Fi frequencies, but that requires heavily modding of equipment, and I can't say that all my internet use falls under FCC regulations for amateur radio lol!

      While we're on the subject....most FM radio broadcast stations in my area are in the 50,000 to 100,000 Watt range. HDTV broadcast stations are probably in the megawatts.
    • hollyminkowski, on 06/12/2008, -0/+2Yup, I saw 3 watts and said WTF. 30mw is closer to reality... about 16db down from 3 watts.

      You can make long range wifi connects with just 30mw. All you need is a surplus DirecTV dish. Make a feed can from an old tin can using a simple formula to tell you where to insert a 1/4 wave wire inside. Mount the can with the dish facing edge at the same position that the old lnb feedhorn was. This will give you roughly 35db gain....this brings 30mw up to about 350 watts in a very tight beam.

      http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
    • dougmc, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1`when we receive more space radiation every day than you'll ever get from consumer electronics'

      You know that star `Sol' ? I went outside today, and it was hitting me with something around 1000 watts/m^2 of radiation! I probably didn't present a full square meter, but I'll bet my clothing and I absorbed at least 100 watts of radiation from it while I was out. This will not stand!

      In fact, my skin is emitting radiation too, right now, mostly in the terahertz range. I'm a menace!
    • Ramb00, on 06/13/2008, -0/+03000 mW
  • trer, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4Why are people afraid of technology and science? They are based on empirical and observational research.
    • bradleyland, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3If these people can prove (empirically) that they are allergic, I'd entertain the thought, but otherwise, they can piss off with their quacky selves.
    • tony23, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3Because they are based on empirical and observational research.
  • gimmeslack12, on 06/12/2008, -1/+5I *heart* Wi-Fi.
    (Fortunate for me I don't get allergies. PHEW!)
  • nurall, on 06/12/2008, -9/+3story was on buzz out loud (i think) last week.
    some Dr did find that some ppl did have an allergic reaction to a certain frequency used in wifi.

    they should have to take allergy pills like me. (oh, yea, im allergic to mold not wifi)
    • Gutterpunk, on 06/12/2008, -0/+2You are also allergic to "specific explanation" apparently. maybe you should go see some doctors in some hopitals
  • aphexcoil, on 06/12/2008, -0/+16What they should do is pretend they removed the access points and then ask this group if they feel better now that the evil Wi-Fi is gone. When the group says, "yes, thank you!" then they immediately tell them they're full of ***** because they never touched the APs to begin with.

  • lawrenceboland, on 06/12/2008, -1/+14Santa Fe, NM: Members of a lawsuit trying to ban public Wi-Fi access points are bludgeoned to death by a pack of nerds wielding USB Wi-Fi dongles. News at 11.
  • uberchaoslord, on 06/12/2008, -1/+14I can't believe there is enough of these people to form a "group" in a place the size of santa fe (75k ppl approx). Do wacked-out hippies just flock to santa fe or what? Do some scientific double-blind tests to see if they really can detect exposure to Wi-Fi, and 500 bucks says they can't - they're just "anti-technology" and are using the "allergy" angle to keep it out of government.
    • dondara, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7Whoa now. These are crystal, new age freaks, not hippies. Hippies just listen to crappy music and do drugs. The crystal freaks are seriously crazy. Blessing crap with some smoldering weeds that can't be smoked = Crazy
    • kebwi, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4I lived in New Mexico for eight years and take my word for it, Santa Fe is a mecca for scientifically illiterate pseudo-science claptrap crystal/palm/tea-leaf/aura/astrology/psychic nutjobs. It doesn't surprise me *in the least* that this would happen in Santa Fe.

      Don't get me wrong, it's an absolutely beautiful town, one of my favorite places to go eat, wonderful street fairs and I certainly don't mean to suggest that *every*one there is bonkers. In a city that size, there are obviously a large number of intelligent rational people, but man does Santa Fe suck up the wackos like a wacko hoover. Most of Northern New Mexico for that matter.

      Just my two cents as a diehard materialist-worldview double-blind loving scientist. Hold it against me if you like.

      ...Hmmm, in retrospect, these kinds of gut-reactions are generally not reflective of a larger societal pattern. How many people in Santa Fe have I actually met? Are there really more people there who embrace "wifi radiation sickness" while rubbing crystals between their fingers? I don't know. That's why statistical surveys are for, right?
    • beersnob, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3"Do wacked-out hippies just flock to santa fe or what?"

      YES!
    • neowolfwitch, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3Having been there- the answer to your question is "Yes".
    • bastion_xx, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4Oh yeah they do have a high portion of crystal gazing tree huggers. More so than the bay area or Seattle. Having lived there for a couple years (and in Los Alamos too), wacked-out hippies are par for the course. Of course, sweet, young art types as girlfriends was a bonus!

      If you go there, eat at Pasquals for breakfast. Bring your laptop, they may even have Wi-Fi!
  • jetblackz4, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7I install Wifi networks for a living. I light up hotels,schools, etc. I have never heard of something like this.
    What is this world coming to?
    • prleet, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3The world has been gone for centuries, you just caught up to it.
  • PropForward, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4::Puts tinfoil hat on::
  • timeshifter, on 06/12/2008, -0/+6I had a customer once who had problems with Wi-Fi. I was called to her house for other reasons. Long story short: she had all kinds of allergy like symptoms that went on for months. She sought the help of different doctors and treatments but never got any lasting relief. Relief came when she unplugged the wireless router in a nearby room.

    She admitted that she was more chemically sensitive than most. The people in this story may be a bunch of nutcases. I haven't followed it. I do find it hard to believe that so many people in a small area could be affected. There is a small percentage of the population with heightened sensitivities. Some can become ill by just being near someone wearing a heavy dose of perfume.
    • secrity, on 06/12/2008, -0/+6Many perfumes contain known allergens.
    • rationalist, on 06/13/2008, -0/+1The scientific method is not based on anecdotal evidence.
  • jdepp, on 06/12/2008, -0/+18I once knew a girl who would leave the microwave door closed for a few minutes after cooking in order that "the rays had time to dissipate"... so it would be "safe" to open the oven. She was hot, so I put it down as one of those quirky female things that men don't get, like poetry and proper conversation. ... but WiFi allergy??? come on, don't be stupid.
    • dondara, on 06/12/2008, -0/+12Amazing what "hot" can get you a pass on, huh?
      • AnarkeIncarnate, on 06/12/2008, -0/+10Hot can get you a pass on:

        Crazy, needy, moody, obnoxious, stupid and lazy.

        However, the effects of the pass are usually only good until sexual favors are rendered. At that point, putting up with their ***** is not worth it.
        • zerobackup, on 06/12/2008, -1/+7The Hot Effect also dissipates over time, once they hit 40 and they realize that no one hands everything to them anymore they become bitter, bitter people.
      • fragglet, on 06/12/2008, -1/+0Leave the door closed for a few minutes and the hot will dissipate.
  • CoMpUtErITGuY, on 06/12/2008, -15/+3People with disabilities shouldn't be allowed to live anyways. Healthy people's burden.
    • edwartica, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4Yeah, Stephen Hawking has contributed nothing to mankind.
    • SweetBearCub, on 06/12/2008, -0/+4Fine. So the day you end up in a wheelchair, I'll use mine to shove you off a nice high cliff. You know, It's not as if people with disabilities *asked* for them.

      I would love to be able to walk normally - But that isn't going to happen. For now, I am happy with my wheelchair, which gives me a lot of freedom. (With the notable exception of being dependent on a power outlet for recharging.)
      • edwartica, on 06/14/2008, -0/+1Aye. I almost responded with a similar comment. I can walk, but I'm in great pain from walking most of the time. People like this guy just talk without thinking sometimes.

        Oh, and some evolutionists would argue that developing such things as wheelchairs and such are in fact part of the human evolutionary process.
      • SweetBearCub, on 06/14/2008, -0/+1edwartica said: "Oh, and some evolutionists would argue that developing such things as wheelchairs and such are in fact part of the human evolutionary process."

        An interesting theory. Can you expand on it? Granted, in my chair I am faster than most people walking (though not always by much) and can push/pull large amounts of weight, but I 'pay' for those abilities with several tradeoffs - Not only the aforementioned dependency on a power outlet, but due to my speed, I must be extra careful to be aware of my surroundings. Also, whereas able-bodied people can go out in the rain with no problems, for me it requires preparation (cover the joystick in a bag, put on a poncho, watch out for water deeper than 3 inches, etc..) I also have to be aware of how much traction I do (or do not) have on various surfaces, whereas this is not usually a concern of able-bodied people. Finally, certain terrains that an able-bodied person can negotiate with problems can pose problems for me. Although I must say, I have tested this chair in a few terrains that I thought would give it problems (I brought help with me, just in case) but I was usually pleasantly surprised. For instance, I can crest hills that are far in excess of what the manual says is allowable that would wind most able-bodied people.
  • Suzilla, on 06/12/2008, -0/+7Order of magnitude? Try THREE orders of magnitude. (microvolts vs millivolts: 10^-6 vs 10^-3)
  • Handonam, on 06/12/2008, -1/+2Allergic to Wifi?

    This feels... familiar.

    http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/brit ...
  • popz41, on 06/12/2008, -0/+12Whats worse is Arthur Firstenberg who has been on social security for almost 20 years because of "electical sensitivity".

    "I'm in possession of a letter from an administrative law judge identifying me as being disabled by broadband, essentially Wi-Fi,” Firstenberg said.

    http://kob.com/article/stories/S474525.shtml?cat=5 ...

    Social Security dollars at work.....
    • dondara, on 06/12/2008, -0/+10He was diagnosed by a judge? I think I see his problem ...
    • protogenxl, on 06/12/2008, -0/+3From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Firstenberg

      "As of June 2004, he was homeless. He had not held a job since 1990 and was living off Social Security as he could not find a workplace without computers.[4] In May 2008, he and other groups accused the city of Santa Fe, New Mexico of discrimination against those allergic to EM radiation for having wireless networks in city buildings."

      I think this man has a Pacemaker that his parent's never told him about and since it is a very old model any kind of electromagnetic radiation screws with it.
  • Revolutionista, on 06/12/2008, -0/+2The silicon wristband industry is still going strong, I see.
  • csopelario, on 06/12/2008, -0/+6I have some family members and friends who rely on wifi to 'get around' - they are disabled. Someone should speak on situations like this in Santa Fe. I mean, this is a clear example of ignorance, or non-education on the technology. Would it be beneficial if technologists or scientists or even the technology companies hold workshops or at least commercials (since these people seem like this is where they get all of their news and 'facts')?
    Just wondering out loud...
  • dnields, on 06/12/2008, -1/+0I'm allergic to luddites... can we get rid of them, too?
  • kaeves, on 06/12/2008, -0/+1It's kinda like holes in the ozone, if you are an albino, don't move to New Zealand and walk outside without protection.
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