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- bloodylip, on 10/12/2007, -6/+25This just in: Princeton computer science researchers detained for terrorism and treason.
- drlha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Regardless of whether the flaws in these machines are being exploited or not, you will surely agree that its important that voting, the very bedrock of our democracy, is absolutely as secure and free from tampering as possible. Although you may see the reporting here as "democrats whining" the issues brought up are very real and could be exploited by anyone, Democrats, Republicans or terrorists to fix an election.
The flaws in these machines are not a partisan issue, true patriots should be up in arms whether they are Republican, Liberal, Democrat, Libertarian or Conservative, because we all should believe in the same thing, that the Government of the USA is elected by the people. - Arkonnan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Haven't we known about this stuff for years now? Even whistle blowers inside Diebold let the cat out of the bag at one point. Look, as long as the voting majority remains apathetic toward the political process and as long as crooked politicians have something to gain by rigging the vote, this will never be fixed.
Electronic voting is here to stay. Enjoy your illusions of Democracy. - thermus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14What company makes slot machines? Why aren't these people making voting machines.
Let's face it, if they can mass produce a machine that protects a casino's money (along with all sorts of validations that the machine was not compromised), they can certainly make a machine to count a stupid vote...anyone else with me on this? - Cablito, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I´ve said before, rent our Brazilian voting machines.
Our elections are ran on them and here its not optional to vote, so 180 million votes are processed on these machines and its been done like this for years. - zip000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Yes, WE have known about this for years, but the problem is that Joe Normal (non tech guy) doesn't have a clue about it. Every time I express my concerns about this to someone, I have to explain the entire thing before I can do so, because very few people have even heard about this, much less know how serious it is.
- MikeWeller, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13http://universalseed.org/main.asp?CategoryID=3
A few videos about election fraud. Check out the one that says "Programmer Clinton Curtis claims that he designed and built a "vote rigging" software program at the behest of then Florida Congressman, now U.S. Congressman, Republican Tom Feeney of Florida's 24th Congressional District." - nmap, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15since when is complaining about the fairness of previous elections not acting like an adult?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_2000
sometimes I think people just digg down what they don't want to admit to themselves. - zip000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Well I think that the main provider of voting machines actually is generally known as an ATM manufacturer - so its not that they can't make secure devices, it's that they aren't doing so in this case.
Which leads to the question of why they aren't. - rxbandit, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14C'mon, try to act like an adult in the Technology section.
- lane.montgomery, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I'd like to see the program GPL'd so that the government is pretty much forced to fix the problem.
There are probably more democrats participating in GPL'd software than republicans, so you know something would be done about it. - sixdays, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Sorry to say, that ain't even funny since it might be real tomorrow =(
- smacg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@theblooms
Listen, jackass. THESE ***** MACHINES AREN'T SECURE. We're talking about the very core of our democratic process. This has been shown time and time again. And if it's only "Democrats" bitching about this, then what does that say about the integrity of Republicans who are willing to take their wins no matter what the circumstances? This isn't a partisan issue, and the fact that Republicans are making it begs the question of why.
I've seen plenty of studies done by non-partisan that says, simply, that these machines can be easily, trivially hacked in a way that is completely non-traceable. There's no justifying that. There's no need to bring in a single goddamn election. There's no need to cast blame on any particular political party. That last sentence might make it seem like I'm contradicting myself, but there are really two seperate issues here. One is the integrity of our voting system, which is a non-partisan issue, and everybody should be concerned with the volumes of evidence that these new voting machines are not secure. Again, we don't need to even include any contraversial election results as evidence of this. The repeated demonstrations of hackability are evidence enough. The other issue, which has become a partisan issue, is that whenever new evidence of the trivial hackability of these machines comes to light, REPUBLICANS accuse Democrats of "bitching" and "whining." These people are scum, obviously content to ignore any evidence of impropriety as long as their "side" wins, whatever the ***** that means.
Let's break it down clearly.
"In the United States of America, each and every voter needs to have complete confidence that their vote will be recorded accurately. Any breach of this confidence needs to be treated in the most serious manner."
See? No mention of any political party. No mention of previous elections. There's no need for it. STOP BRINGING STUPID STRAW-MAN ARGUMENTS INTO A DISCUSSION WHERE THEY DON'T BELONG.
Oh, and ***** off, beeyotch. - nmap, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10the 'we are not the worst' justification is an extremely weak argument, there are many countries that have a fairer voting systems, including the UK, Switzerland and many other European countries.
- FreyrVanir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I think groups around the US should sneak in and install this on as many voting machines as possible. So that at the end of the day when the the final vote are posted, someone wins for every office that was on the ballet even tho there name was not a choice to begin with. This would bring the problem front and center for all to see. Who wants Jon Stewart for President, Vice President, every sit in congress, etc...
- sixdays, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@VolatileWhimsy
Yes sweden and switzerland. - fgiDangeresque, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I have read several quite in depth reports about the entire election process of the previous controversial elections.
The voting machines had _some_ faults, but IMO the biggest problems lay with
a) how the machines were distributed
b) the quantity in which they were distributed and
c) how they were supported throughout the course of the day.
Its easier to fudge elections this way without having to know 'complicated' stuff. Though having vulnerabilities in something like this critical is purely unacceptable.
Politics frustrate me so - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7whats crazy is these guys have a decade of experience making atms
and yet they resist, deny and fight any fixes to their voting machines,,
makes me wonder if atms are easy to hack and if they arent, why the ***** are our voting machines easy to hack. - Spanktacular, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9VolatileWhimsy, they don't seem to experience the sorts of election drama in the UK when they elect members of Parliment or a Prime Minister...
- apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7When there are voting machine irregularities, you can count on our government to do this:
http://www.10news.com/politics/9758540/detail.html
Summary: house swears in candidate before all the votes are even counted, so no challenge or recount can be made. Case is brought before a judge who says he can't do anything about it.
Our right to elect our representatives is being taken away. Why is this not front page news? - cgreentx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I've seen how the process works for ATM machines on the back-end and it scares the hell out of me. :P Think about it like most applications/sites on the Internet. They put on a very polished and pretty face on the front end, but on the back end there are 2 minimum wage guys with shoestring and bubblegum holding together a network of extremely piss-poor outsourced region-10 code.
- portwojc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Actually if past history is any indicator Diebold will just file a restraining order against them.
People just love to think to the extremes way too much... - n00ch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5These things need to be abandoned. Period. This company is far too arrogant and close-minded to be given this responsibility. Without any kind of market competition to force these things up a notch (given the sensitive nature of the machines' purpose), there will NEVER be an electronic voting machine above hacking. They will continue to refuse to acknowledge any issues, and drag their feet on repairing those they do.
- williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Volatile
A country with more fair elections than the U.S.? That's way too easy. Any place with proportional representation, for example. And PR isn't even an optimal system, but it is better than our system which has also been perverted by the two major parties. - whisperedlie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5then you have to deal with phony receipts
- adamsetzler, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Anyone have access to the Diebold machines use in Ohio in 2004? Someone should grab one and see if it's been compromised.
- agoodm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4http://files.photojerk.com/alan/ts-voting.wmv Here is a mirror to a video shown on a seemingly buried article, it shows the problem in a clear and easy to understand way.
- eatsushi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4ah dammit, good point
- fleetskeet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Voting should be mandatory in America, too.
- covracer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I attended Hackers On Planet Earth (HOPE) Number Six (the 2600: The Hacker Quarterly's convention) and was very interested, if not completely persuaded by a vehement keynote speech given by Jello Biafra. He spoke about a cartload of fishy election results, especially from Ohio, that he believed had been tampered with. At the end of his speech, calling hackers to arms, he urged hackers to elect Homer Simpson governor this fall and expose the exploitability of the current voting system. An recording of his speech can be found at http://www.hopenumbersix.net/speakers.html.
- digg0digg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4it will be interesting to see if any major news wires pick up on this story. I sort of doubt it, even though 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies, Diebold and ES&S, because
1. the vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers and both Republican Donors
and
2. the news wires would then have to mention that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has already filed a lawsuit against Diebold, which would then encourage more people to go back and re-read his Rolling Stone article on the 2004 election results.
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2750
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/ - lazerdave, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That's all the Republican *did* was bitch and whine and moan about Clinton. Pull your head out of your ass!
- baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i agree, a paper recipt that is both human readable and with something like a bar-code that can be quickly scanned by a machine, if currency and lottery tickets can be secure from counterfitting then voting machines can be madesecure and to leave a paper trail that is fool proof enough to thwart fraud...
if this is not fixed then the democratic processes of the USA is corrupt beyond hope of repair and ready for a revolution. - mOdQuArK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Part of the point of the security reports about these machines is that you can't TELL whether the machine has been compromised - you just have to "trust" that the results are right.
- hummumgerr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3How soon before those same Princeton researchers are sued by Diebold?
- NapoleonGold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Could make fun filled flash games that use the code,
Ameican Idol Presidente - McShaken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3ugg... the sad thing is that this isn't a headline story on the major news networks. CNN.com's top stories this morning include "Space station gets more power" and "Condi Rice's single status sparks lover talk" ... Sigh. Maybe Jon Stewart will pick this up and help get the word out....
- politech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I love it when a Politician pledges to "Fix the Vote" when talking about ballots, and voting machines.
Fixing the vote has been a tradition for hundreds of years, the hackable voting machine just makes vote fixing easier than ever! - URSalvation, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If banks can make money transactions secure over the internet then why not votes?
The answer is because they want it to fail.
If we were able to vote securely from our own home soon we would realize that we do not need politicians. We could and would be the new majority and all of their jobs would be useless.
I say lets do I-Voting.
The next step, vote to replace all branches with our own majority vote.
It is the only vote that could not be bought out by lobbyist, because they could not afford to buy us all.
Put the vote back in the hands of the people.
Where every vote gets tallied and counted as an individual vote to the end.
By the People.
For the People.
***** the parties, everyone should be an independent where they vote with their minds and not with their parties' partisan agenda. - lazerdave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Spanktacular:
The Prime Minister is chosen by the monarch, so that voting system is pretty much infallible. There's one voter. - smacg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2On of the big problems with making people aware of this is the mistaken impression that this is a partisan issue. It shouldn't be, and the people who say it is are either brainwashed or profiting grotesquely from it.
- politech, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@smacg, your foul language did nothing but hurt your credibility. Your comment contained valid debate points, however I dugg you down for the unnecessary ad-hominem expletives.
- LAhazmat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Let's hack the machines so Kevin Rose get elected President as a write in.
that would be freaking awesome! - d00fy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They're Masons, and you aren't? Is that a good enough answer for you?
- deadsenator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Thermus
Slot machine makers and videopoker machine makers have been rumored to have mob ties in the past. The gambling industry in Vegas was wrapped up with the mob from it's inception. Anyone gambling in a casino and losing their shorts (from the one-arm bandits) will have doubts about the impartiality of a machine that just took their money. Heck, that's why lots of folks don't gamble, the odds are against you winning. You want those manufacturers to make voting machines??? I think not. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Screw diebold
Vote absenteee - JohnboiWaltune, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think the penalty for knowingly tampering with election results should be death. It's that important.
- adamsetzler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You have one.
- jetsetsc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The point of the article and study is that you can't tell if a machine has been hacked. The software inserted deletes itself automatically when the election's over. That's why a paper audit trail is necessary.
-J - smacg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@politech
Yeah, I know. Rereading it a half hour afterward, I really regretted the outburst. That's what I get for going off my meds. ;) -
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