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59 Comments
- JustinPM, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"Google is the new evil empire, because they're in such a powerful position in terms of control. They have potential monopolistic control over access to information."
So friggin' stupid. They are at current the number one search engine, but you can still go some where else. You don't like the fact that they have a good product? Don't use it. You don't like the fact that they're trying to make other products in other markets? Don't use them either. Comparing Microsoft to Google is like comparing Hitler to Gandhi. Two completely different organisms, both influential, but have completely different tactics. - WonkoTheSane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What makes google different is that so far they have been much more open to open standards, whereas MS prefers proprietary standards.
- g33uu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"windows is the current number 1 operating system, but you can still go somewhere else too. you dont like the fact microsoft makes good products? dont use it. you dont like the fact that theyre trying to make products in other markets? dont use them either. im not gonna bother with the hitler reference."
Its not quite that simple. You can't always just "go somewhere else", as a lot of software, hardware, et al is only engineered for windows, you don't have a choice. Just because microsoft is the de facto standard on the desktop doesn't mean they make good products, it means you have no comparable alternatives. I'm a dedicated Linux user, but due to closed standards and software, I am forced to boot into the M$ partition more than I should. - princedynamite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Right, it's a nytimes article.
I used bugmenot.com - u: ralebtris p: nytimes - vikramkr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2OK Wonko, because you just said "please", Google's not going to become evil.
Also, I agree with the numerous others that have said this:
"I think Google-hate has a long way to go before it reaches the epic proportions that M$-hate has reached. Everyone likes to cheer for the little guy, but then that little guy gets all growned up and successful, and then people don't like them as much. Such a vicious cycle!"
And you say Microsoft is evil because they bundle software? Well take a look at Apple. Mac OSX comes with: iMovie, iDVD, iTunes, Garageband, iPhoto, Safari 2, Mail 2, Address Book 4, iChat AV, iCal 2, Font Book 2, DVD Player 4.5, Preview 3, Xcode 2, Apple Works, and Quicken 2005.
Don't get me wrong. I love Macs. Just look at the hypocritical comments here. "I switched to a Mac because they're more open". *****. - quasipalm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Microsoft is a convicted monopolist. That's the difference, and that's why this article is stupid.
- 1337geek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2why the hell would i want to register to be spammed by them, who the hell is making people use google anyway.
YOU CAN UN-INSTALL ANYTHING GOOGLE
IT DOSNT COME PRE-BUNDLED IN EVERYTHING. - wonko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I LOVE google. I do, but I can't help but question if they hold their "Don't Be Evil" motto in as high esteem as they used to. Perhaps the shareholders still approve of the motto but are covering up the "Don't" because they know being evil will yield the most money. Yes if google does in fact turn out to be turning to the dark-side it is the cause of the share holders who don't care about anything but making more money. Since google is public now they do have to answer to those shareholders looking to make money, and as the saying goes, "Money is the root of all evil."
Why do I question google so much? Their retaliation against ZDnet/Cnet for using GOOGLE.COM to find information on their shinny new CEO. That, to me, screams double standards.
Google admittedly has great products. I use the search all the time, and I also have a Gmail account but it can't help but feel uneasy about the amount of information that google must already have about me.
Its not dominance that makes a company evil, but its business tactics.
Google, please Don't BeCOME Evil. - goat2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"So friggin' stupid. They are at current the number one search engine, but you can still go some where else. You don't like the fact that they have a good product? Don't use it. You don't like the fact that they're trying to make other products in other markets? Don't use them either. Comparing Microsoft to Google is like comparing Hitler to Gandhi. Two completely different organisms, both influential, but have completely different tactics."
windows is the current number 1 operating system, but you can still go somewhere else too. you dont like the fact microsoft makes good products? dont use it. you dont like the fact that theyre trying to make products in other markets? dont use them either. im not gonna bother with the hitler reference. - deadlychicken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"God damn conservatives!" There, I got it out in the open.
- csansbury, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1We use Google Software because it does what it's supposed to.
We use Microsoft because we have no choice.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1you should refuse to develop for windows.
- g33uu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"why dont you use the oh so acclaimed open source alternatives then?"
If there is one, I do. Unfortunately, there are some that don't or are simply not feasible. As a software developer, though I would prefer to be in Linux, when it comes to work related projects if a customers wants a Win32 MFC application, I'm not going to jump through the hoops of trying to develop said app under Linux. Just because a client knows nothing but Windows, that still does not make it a superior product.
You have more baseless sarcastic questions you'd like me to answer? - quasipalm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Calling the NYTimes liberal is way too simplistic. The truth is they have a wide variety of viewpoints presented with a New York slant. New York, of course, has a lot of dems, but it has a ton of Wall Street conservatives too. So that's why you see a liberal slant on social issues, like say gay marriage, but a conservative slant in foreign policy (nytimes was notoriously easy on Bush before the Iraq war) and fiscal issues (they have been calling for reduced spending for 4 years now).
- syuusuke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0lol where is that jon stewart hitler reference clip when you need it :)
- slowspin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I blogged about this like 2 months ago, said a lot of similar things, but the main thing I was talking about was why we can't root for Microsoft or Google in the lawsuit M$ is bringing against Google.
I think the points they make in this article are similar, but I would have liked them to cover more about WHY Google is going to be considered evil. It would have been nice to see the reasons behind the resentment. - rawr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Google is cooler, I'd rather they ruled the world than M$.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i laugh at all of this because google is a WEBSITE. its a searchengine and a bunch of handy apps and services. just because google is innovative and pays its company a lot and has a good advertising service
does not make them evil.
and if they were "evil" theyd be better than
ms.
every heard of
msn spaces? the most godawful ***** i have every seen.
blogspot=not perfect, but you can personalize it with CSS, unlike microsoft, which beleives you will be content with their gayass template - g33uu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0+3 for math Genius. I wish I could. :P
- Dan005, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google isn't becoming like Microsoft. Watch if GoogleOS comes out, it will be free.
- zeroed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google doesn't try to force people to use its products. People use their products because they are good. No one forces you to use iPod, but people use it because it is one of the best music players in the market.
Google has always encouraged people to play around with their tools. They leave their software open for modifications and add-ons. They keep things simple. Microsoft, on the other hand, prevents users from even viewing certain folders.
Lets face the facts; If it weren't for gmail, hotmail, yahoo mail, and AOL mail would have remained as crappy as ever. It was due to competition caused by gmail that other companies were forced to innovate. Maybe Gtalk will force innovations in the IM community, only good can come from this.
Is google evil? They do not force you to use their software or services. If you don't like something about their software, you can modify it, without them sending their lawyers on you. Google ads are not a banner 400x800px, they do not slow down web pages, they do not require flash, and they do not in your face. Every company needs to keep afloat, and google does so by ads. As long as I can ignore their ads, google ads, or google itself is not evil. - unitedkronos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You need to register in order to read the article.
- psyonide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why is it that you can't present an article from a newspaper without someone tossing the word "liberal" around?
- psyonide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"windows is the current number 1 operating system, but you can still go somewhere else too. you dont like the fact microsoft makes good products? dont use it. you dont like the fact that theyre trying to make products in other markets? dont use them either. im not gonna bother with the hitler reference."
The two are nothing alike and you know it. - fozzcorp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0LOL, talk about "Evil Empire". Want anything Apple, guess what. You have to buy apple. Need support for apple good luck, because you only have apple to go to. And has anyone stepped up to offer something as good or better than MS then maybe things will be different. Maybe if apple let its OS out to manufacturer like dell they would be more popular, but nope you have to buy apple. And I love Linux, its very versatile and useful, but its not ready for main-stream consumer use yet. Yes I know thats only because there are idoits out there but lets face it. Idiots need computers too.
The point is also that there are other alternatives, but they are either to hard to use or are to expensive. As for Google Empire, WTF did that come from? - jfried, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Big Brother
- DiGiTaLFX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0So google has changed a little bit! Who really cares... They make great software and because of this everyone chooses to use it. Microsoft also makes good software, but there isn't really any other alternatives to using ms yet...
- notman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Here we go, as a company becomes successful and grows in size, people become jealous and hateful at it. If Google starts making buggy products and charges you high prices for them, then you'll have something to complain about. There is no comparison between Google and MS other than they are both technology companies and Google is growing to the size of MS.
It's amazing how GTalk seems to have pushed everyone over the edge. Google was fine yesterday, but they're the devil today. - darrylring, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Folks, we officially have our first Hitler reference.
- goat2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Its not quite that simple. You can't always just "go somewhere else", as a lot of software, hardware, et al is only engineered for windows, you don't have a choice. Just because microsoft is the de facto standard on the desktop doesn't mean they make good products, it means you have no comparable alternatives. I'm a dedicated Linux user, but due to closed standards and software, I am forced to boot into the M$ partition more than I should."
why dont you use the oh so acclaimed open source alternatives then? - GuyNextDoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think Google-hate has a long way to go before it reaches the epic proportions that M$-hate has reached. Everyone likes to cheer for the little guy, but then that little guy gets all growned up and successful, and then people don't like them as much. Such a vicious cycle!
- TheWiseFlea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It doesn't really bother me, I mean if Microsoft were innovative, I'd love them. If Google eventually does everything "better", I would hope they still stay innovative. And I think they will - it is the principle they base their company on.
- Shish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0> You always have a choice.
My customers demand that the sites I make work in IE on Windows. I personally code to W3C standards using vim on linux, but I still keep windows / IE around for testing. Got any advice on how I can test IE on windows without having either? I'd be only too happy to get rid of them, if you tell me how :) - Computer_Kid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google and Micro$oft is the modern Apple and Micro$oft! Google won my vote! I am waiting for google os.
- TRUEPATRIOT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0im all for google ruling the earth
- xenovoxx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Arrogance is the first thing that ticks off a "Caution" light in my mind.
As someone stated, hopefully they keep with the "dont' be evil" mindset.
Wait, watch, and see....... - vikramkr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree with you zeroed. Google is fueling the competition to make their products better.
- SilencetheFire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0omg using micro$oft with a $ instead if S is so trendy!!!1!
anyway, microsofts stuff works, the only people that bitch about it are the noobs who dont know what updates are and who download everypiece of spyware imaginable and then blame microsoft for their stupidity.
I dont hate google either, but all the new hype about google talk is rather retarded. We already have aim,msn,and yahoo as popular messengers, nobody is gonna use googletalk for long unless they have Gaim or trillian and even then it still wont be widely used.
Now to the googleOS. Id assume that if there were gonna do any of that then it would most likely be linux based so they can get more people to Hop on board their crusade to be number one. - g33uu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Because I develop on the target platform? ...
- CorpT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sounds like you picked the wrong profession then, g33uu.
- DannoHung, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I don't believe Google will ever be the evil empire in the way that Microsoft has been the evil empire.
My reasoning is lock-in. With Microsoft, the two core offerings, Office and Windows, the problem was that you could not in any way switch to a competitor's offering without tossing away all the applications you'd bought and the documents you'd created etcetera etcetera and it seemed for a long while anyway that all the subsidiaries that they built, like the Zone, and Media Player, and so on and so forth were centered around lock-in too.
Google has some lock-in (Personalized Search is all I can think of really), but mostly, it's not an issue to switch to a competitor.
What a lot of people cite as Google being evil is data collection. The problem here is that the information Google is collecting is largely PUBLIC (that is, finding out things about people on the internet easily). Your ISP has always had the same capability as Google has now to watch your internet usage patterns and scan your email and I'll bet a large number of them did so too in order to improve performance. - Mirag3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"'Its not quite that simple. You can't always just "go somewhere else", as a lot of software, hardware, et al is only engineered for windows, you don't have a choice. Just because microsoft is the de facto standard on the desktop doesn't mean they make good products, it means you have no comparable alternatives. I'm a dedicated Linux user, but due to closed standards and software, I am forced to boot into the M$ partition more than I should.'
why dont you use the oh so acclaimed open source alternatives then?"
I do, but you try playing Half-Life 2 on Fedora Core 3, i got ATI drivers to work (finally) but that still doesnt account for Steam.
P.S. NO GOOGLE BROWSER. Firefox is perfect the way it is AND a lot is open source, we dont need no stinkin' closed source browser. - vdub12, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I hate stupid registration
Mirror:
SAN FRANCISCO, Aug. 23 - For years, Silicon Valley hungered for a company mighty enough to best Microsoft. Now it has one such contender: the phenomenally successful Google.
But instead of embracing Google as one of their own, many in Silicon Valley are skittish about its size and power. They fret that the very strengths that made Google a search-engine phenomenon are distancing it from the entrepreneurial culture that produced it - and even transforming it into a threat.
A year after the company went public, those inside Google are learning the hard way what it means to be the top dog inside a culture accustomed to pulling for the underdog. And they are facing a hometown crowd that generally rebels against anything that smacks of corporate behavior.
Nowadays, when venture capitalists, entrepreneurs and technologists gather in Silicon Valley, they often find themselves grousing about Google, complaining about everything from a hoarding of top engineers to its treatment of partners and potential partners. The word arrogant is frequently used.
The news last week that Google plans to sell an additional 14 million shares of stock, adding $4 billion to its current cash reserves of $3 billion, will only provide more reasons to gripe.
"I've definitely been picking up on the resentment," said Max Levchin, a founder of PayPal, the online payment service now owned by eBay. "They're a big company now, doing things people didn't expect them to do."
Mr. Levchin, who last year founded a multimedia company in San Francisco called Slide, said Google "still has a long wick of good will to burn off," but he added, "I'm surprised at how fast the company's reputation is changing."
It was not that long ago that Google reigned here as the upstart computer company that could do no wrong. Now some working in the technology field are starting to draw comparisons between Google and Microsoft, the company in Redmond, Wash., that Silicon Valley loves most to hate.
Bill Gates certainly sees similarities between Google and his own company. This spring, in an interview with Fortune, Mr. Gates, Microsoft's chairman, said that Google was "more like us than anyone else we have ever competed with."
Google's success has already spurred Microsoft to develop its own Internet search engine (a project code-named Underdog), but Google has legions of engineers banging away on a range of projects of its own that, if successful, could dislodge Microsoft from the pre-eminent spot it has enjoyed since the early 1980's.
Of course, Silicon Valley has had past pretenders to the throne. Netscape, which went public 10 years ago this month, and its Web browser, Navigator, were supposed to fell Microsoft - but it is Netscape that is no longer in business. And while Google is riding high, those closely following the company caution that it is hardly invincible; an inflated stock price, a desire to compete in too many sectors simultaneously or simple hubris might cause it to stumble, they say. Even Microsoft, after all, has had legal troubles.
Still, similarities between Google and Microsoft are evident to local entrepreneurs including Steven I. Lurie, who worked at Microsoft between 1993 and 1999 but now lives in San Francisco, and Joe Kraus, a founder of the 1990's search firm Excite.
"There's that same 'think big' attitude about markets and opportunities," said Mr. Lurie, who has visited the Google campus in Mountain View many times to see friends who work there. "Maybe you can call it arrogance, but there's that same sense that they can do anything and get into any area and dominate."
To place Google in context, Mr. Kraus offered a brief history lesson. In the 1990's, he said, I.B.M. was widely perceived in Silicon Valley as a "gentle giant" that was easy to partner with while Microsoft was perceived as an "extraordinarily fearsome, competitive company wanting to be in as many businesses as possible and with the engineering talent capable of implementing effectively anything."
Now, in the view of Mr. Kraus, "Microsoft is becoming I.B.M. and Google is becoming Microsoft." Mr. Kraus is the chief executive and a founder of JotSpot, a Silicon Valley start-up hoping to sell blogging and other self-publishing tools to corporations.
Just as Microsoft has been seen over the years as an aggressive, deep-pocketed competitor for talent, Internet start-ups in Silicon Valley complain that virtually every time they try to recruit a well-regarded computer programmer, that person is already contemplating an offer from Google.
"Google is doing more damage to innovation in the Valley right now than Microsoft ever did," said Reid Hoffman, the founder of two Internet ventures, including LinkedIn, a business networking Web site popular among Silicon Valley's digerati. "It's largely that they're hiring up so many talented people, and the fact they're working on so many different things. It's harder for start-ups to do interesting stuff right now."
Google, Mr. Hoffman said, has caused "across the board a 25 to 50 percent salary inflation for engineers in Silicon Valley" - or at least those in a position to weigh competing offers. A sought-after computer programmer can now expect to make more than $150,000 a year.
David C. Drummond, vice president for corporate development at Google, acknowledged that the company was "very competitive" in its pursuit of talent, but added: "We're very sensitive to how everybody is perceiving us. We think the Silicon Valley ecosystem is critical for Google's success."
Google is also making it more difficult for some start-ups to raise funds. In the second half of the 1990's, entrepreneurs frequently complained that the specter of Microsoft hung over their every conversation with venture capitalists. Today, they say the same about Google.
"When I meet with venture capitalists, or if I'm engaged in a conversation about going into partnership with someone, inevitably the question is, 'Why couldn't Google do what you're doing?' " said Craig Donato, the founder and chief executive of Oodle, a site for searching online classified listings more quickly.
"The answer is, 'They could, and they're probably thinking about it, but they can't do everything and do it well,' " Mr. Donato said. "Or at least I'm hoping they can't."
Google has already added free e-mail, mapping, news aggregation and digital-photo management to its offerings, bringing it into competition in each case with two or more rivals. On Wednesday, it will announce plans for an instant-messaging system. And its plans for a new stock issue are fueling speculation that it is preparing to enter any number of other markets, from services for mobile phone users to an online payment service that would compete with PayPal.
Add to that list an Internet-based phone system and several products that would be directly aimed at Microsoft, including a Google browser and a software offering that would compete with Microsoft Office.
"If there's a perception that we're exploring lots of different areas, some of which might not be directly related to our core area of search, that's true," said Mr. Drummond, the Google vice president. "It's part of our DNA to be always innovating and exploring lots of different areas."
Yet so driven has Google been in its pursuit of new markets that at least a few in Silicon Valley are using an epithet to taunt Google that people here once reserved for Microsoft: "The Borg," a reference to an army of creatures in "Star Trek: The Next Generation" that took over civilization after civilization with machinelike precision.
Perhaps an anti-Google reaction was to be expected, given the glowing press the company has enjoyed for several years. Or maybe the carping and complaining is the inevitable reaction to a company so successful that it cannot help stomping on toes, even if accidentally.
"Hubris is an issue at every one of these Silicon Valley companies that are successful," said Peter Thiel, a founder of PayPal who has invested in roughly 15 Internet start-ups in recent years. "I don't know if it's any worse at Google than it's been at other highly successful technology companies."
Aggressiveness is another signal trait among successful companies like Google - something those in parts of the media world are starting to learn.
Google recently announced that it would not talk to any reporter from CNETNews.com, a technology news Web site, until July 2006, after a reporter for the site wrote an article raising privacy questions about the information Google collects about individuals.
The company also provoked the ire of many within the blogging world - not to mention snarky comments in Silicon Valley from those thinking Google was behaving like an old-line company that doesn't get it - when earlier this year it fired a new employee who had joked online that the free meals, the on-site gym and all the other perks were a clever ploy to keep people at their desks longer.
"Google is at that inflection point where it's starting to act like an establishment company, and Silicon Valley is a rebel culture," said Gautam Godhwani, a founder and chief executive at Simply Hired, an online employment site.
Microsoft, of course, has its hold on the Windows world - and a market capitalization almost four times Google's. By contrast, switching to a new search engine is as easy as calling up another Web page - if a new company is able to do to Google what Google did to some of the earliest leaders of search, including AltaVista and Excite.
For the moment, at least, Google is aiming for that most coveted position in technology: a platform that, like Microsoft's operating system, is so popular that outside software developers write programs, and Web developers build new Google-related services, that render the Google home page indispensable to the personal computer ecosystem.
"In the day, you'd hear that Microsoft was the evil empire, especially in Silicon Valley," said Brian Lent, the president of Medio Systems, a start-up in Seattle working on mobile-phone-based search. "Google is the new evil empire, because they're in such a powerful position in terms of control. They have potential monopolistic control over access to information."
Mr. Lent, who worked closely with Google's founders, Sergey Brin and Larry Page, when all three were Ph.D. students at Stanford University, helped introduce Mr. Brin and Mr. Page to one of the company's earliest investors.
"I like and respect the Google guys," Mr. Lent said, "but let's just say that their ultimate aim seems to me to be, 'One Google under Google, for which it stands.' " - Shish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0> Advertising is an evil business
No it isn't; pushing crap down the throats of people who have made it clear that they don't want it is an evil business. Politely asking what people want, then giving it to them, is fine. We've just had too much of the former over the past few decades, so everyone blindly hates *all* forms of advertising without thinking.
And it's hardly an invasion of privacy when the users have to explicitly sign up for things - they don't know anything that you yourself haven't told them. - Massaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0google is still making good products compard to microsoft still
Well i decided to see what was the menmory usage between talk.google and msn. I took 5 readings from differnt times and found the aveage.
quick look = (google = 1,931k) (msn = 13,528k)
closed to the taskbar (by the time)
===================================
google (talk) microsoft (msn)
1,852k 15,656k
724k 7,464k
1,860k 8,908k
1,860k 8,960k
1,860k 9,008k
===================================
1,631k 9,999k
===================================
open (desktop)
===================================
google (talk) microsoft (msn)
2,068k 16,560k
2,104k 16,240k
2,116k 17,036k
2,424k 19,092k
2,452k 16,360k
===================================
2,232k 17,057k
=================================== - Warpling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google is a great bussiness, and will never turn into the evil monopoly that Bill's Gates have destroyed the living world with BURN IN HELL U HEATHAN!!!!
- el_jefe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0We use Microsoft because we have no choice.
csansbury posted by csansbury (0) at 09:05 AM 8/24/05
You always have a choice. Mac, Linux, Unix, and so on. For some reason people refuse to see there are alternatives. Sure, no one makes an OS "exactly" like Windows. But if thats what you want, keep using windows. If you want something different try an alternative OS. But dont say you dont have a choice. Thats just ignorant. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You can't dethrone Microsoft as Bill Gates will soon release his "Robots With Chainsaws For Hands".
- volcompimp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Size doesn't determine whether you're evil or good.
If anything google has done more than enough to prove
it's the good guy. What a retarded post. - racaruso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=7134425&blogID=43895989&Mytoken=20050824143319
My GoogleTalk expose so that hopefully the tech savvy of MySpace get the hell off AIM and onto Google Talk!
- RACARUSO@GMAIL.COM -
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