What is Digg?65 Comments
- kopiwrite, on 07/12/2009, -0/+63Hydra effect (obviously) continues. The RIAA/MPAA really have to be the dumbest people on earth to keep encouraging the P2P community to create an unstoppable future of filesharing. Whatever, I'm all for it!
***** THE RIAA!
***** THE MPAA! - Culyt, on 07/13/2009, -0/+29Wouldn't it be a better idea for trackers to talk to each other and then cross track everything? Basically a distributed p2p tracker.
Setup an API so trackers copy the same hashes from each other and poll the other trackers for peers. Might not even need to copy the hashes, just ask other trackers for peers for a hash when its requested by a client.
Add the same ability to torrent sites, when you download a .torrent from them, the site can add all the trackers in the tracker pool.
Just ensure its some open software so anyone can setup a tracker or bittorrents site at the drop of a hat.
I would still like to see BitTorrent get Tor support for querying trackers. Also if you have a distributed tracker site it would be easy to set them up on Tor too.
This way the entire bittorrent system would act as one giant tracker and torrent site.
The only problem is right not many sites want to keep their .torrent's for them selfs so they get advertising money. But then again people who setup the distributed torrent sites will get money without needing to build up their own .torrent database.
Some cross tracking already happens though, as quite a few sites will meta aggregate via RSS feeds (just try uploading a torrent to Mininova, it will be downloaded 20 times in a few min and end up on hundreds of sites soon). - southwind19, on 07/12/2009, -0/+27as they say never put all your eggs in one basket
- ivand67, on 07/13/2009, -1/+23If they didn't sue grandmothers and put 20-year old kids in jail for years just for sharing a stupid movie that sucks, people would feel a little more sympathetic. They deserve all the crap they get.
- ericmoritz, on 07/13/2009, -0/+15duh. Get a basket for your 16 baskets!
- HeDiggMe, on 07/13/2009, -1/+15demonoid.
and who knows whatever else. - skidork, on 07/13/2009, -3/+16I get 3 megs down on torrentleech. What do you get?
- mrsteveman1, on 07/13/2009, -0/+13I've only got 2 hands, how am i supposed to carry all these damn eggs if i have to use 16 baskets?
- inactive, on 07/13/2009, -1/+12if i could only wish one disease on you it would be ebola.
- inactive, on 07/13/2009, -1/+12As I am extremely interested in your blog, could you tell us more?
- venom8599, on 07/13/2009, -0/+10I don't know why they keep referring to OpenBitTorrent as a separate entity from The Pirate Bay. It's the same tracker, the same servers, the same IPs, just an additional domain name.
- djbon2112, on 07/13/2009, -0/+9@dinglebutt: Yea, good luck finding good quality stuff before it gets deleted.
- Culyt, on 07/13/2009, -1/+10@sykotic
They don't have to be in each others pockets, you just make it a completely open system. It's not really any different if I setup a site that scraped the Mininova/Piratebay RSS feeds, just optimized for the purpose.
It might even be possible to setup a proxy tracker yourself already, just rig it so when a client asks for a hash the tracker queries all the public trackers that are known for the hash like a regular client does and combines that infomration together. The main problem is sites like Demonoid and h33t that add those stupid "This torrent downloading from xxx.txt" and thus change the .torrent's hash.
In the open system just allow anyone to mirror a tracker or torrent site with no restrictions (like how people can make their own Wikipedia by downloading the database, or how identi.ca/Laconica allow for distributed Twitter clones) Of course if you want stuff to be accepted back into the hive collective then you need to give authorization to that site to ensure no RIAA spambots.
You also need to likely share information about files that are taken down because they are spam (once again you don't want to let a rogue RIAA tracker send a fake spam request for the entire site).
So you would probably need a collection of trusted sites. The badtorrents listing could be a separate entity from the trackers and torrent sites.
Using OpenID and semantic web technologies like FOF and RDF would be handy too. - skidork, on 07/13/2009, -2/+10Not to be taking their side or anything, but they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't. If they do try to stop a file sharing site, another one comes to that that site's place. If they don't try to stop the site, then file sharing continues.
- Culyt, on 07/13/2009, -0/+8Easy fix:
❶ http://ping.eu/
❷ enter the tracker address, get ip
❸ Add address and ip to your hostsfile (/etc/hosts or c:\Windows\system32\drivers\etc\)
or see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_file
If it becomes common place we will need some DNS servers that work over HTTP to OpenDNS. Or at the least a public txt listing of trackers blocked and their ips can can be cut and pasted into hosts.
If they only block TPB trackers and not the website, TPB could detect the IP range of that isp and give the instructions. - Travelsonic, on 07/13/2009, -1/+8"BitTorrent isn't exactly the most legal thing"
Torrent in of itself is a legal technology"
"most o the time you get put in jail if you use it..."
[citation required]
Lemmie guess, you really don't have any idea how this tech works, right? - Lewie, on 07/13/2009, -0/+7Only if you promise to seed.
- DarkLaughingMan, on 07/13/2009, -2/+8True, no matter what they do file sharing will continue. But they can't put the blame soley on the people who file share. I will agree that there are people out there who will download anything if given the chance, but your not going catch them in the long run. By trying to stop them you just widen the net and piss off more people. So stop trying so hard to pursue them.
Part of their problem is,
1) Not waking up and trying to adapt to the changes in distribution
2) Public PR (as ivand67 pointed out)
3) Relates to #1, give people a reason to buy besides the music. E.g. physical exclusives, scarcities, etc..
If they did better on those fronts the problem wouldn't be as widespread as today. Would filesharing still exist? Yes. Would it be as problematic to them as it is now? Probably not. - Raptor007, on 07/13/2009, -1/+7Of course he does! 123bucklemyshoe is extremely interested in technology.
- Blaenk, on 07/13/2009, -0/+5If you guys read the Demonoid rules, you'll learn that Demonoid staff don't actually even care if you seed or not. It's obviously good etiquette to seed things, but it's not a strict rule as in REAL private trackers. Demonoid is considered semi-private by most people. They allow external torrents and getting in is relatively easy. It's not like you're on frickin sct or something haha, that has a rep to live up to. There are many other trackers though that try to be all 1337 by imposing strict ratio rules, only to realize that no one can meet those rules except people with fast connections or servers, and most of those people are at the REAL private trackers anyways, like sct.
- Memnochxx, on 07/13/2009, -1/+6Good thing for proxy servers, right?
- hellengineer, on 07/13/2009, -0/+5The way it was meant to be. May the force be with you.
- Reddwarfusa, on 07/13/2009, -2/+6Oh dear... Sometimes I wish Darwin would work faster ;-) There are genes that should go nowhere.
- apzdsx, on 07/13/2009, -1/+5No thanks.
- Travelsonic, on 07/13/2009, -2/+6script,
you don't understand the issue clearly. - venom8599, on 07/13/2009, -0/+4That works well until you realize that ratio tracking is very inaccurate and open to manipulation. Something like that would need to be implemented at the protocol level, at which point someone could probably make a client to take advantage of it or just omit that portion of the protocol, etc...
- Culyt, on 07/13/2009, -0/+4Freenets awesome, but mostly as a proof of concept. You not going to have much luck downloading a Bluray rip, and even things like regular movies and tv shows will take 20x longer atleast. It's not designed to be a p2p filesharing system, more of an underground web, the filesharing stuff will likely be hurting the system.
Not as fast as BT is a major understatement, although it might have improved somewhat since I last had a go at it.
We need something thats Freenet inspired but designed for p2p like Winny (a Japan specific filesharing system based on Freenet). Apparently it did have fairly good speeds while it was mostly based in Japan as they have those insane Internet connections, but when it started getting overseas attention it slowed down somewhat. Whinny guy got fined now there is Share which is the same idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winny
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_(P2P) - alpha88, on 07/13/2009, -0/+4@Blaenk: They may not care if people seed, but I do. If I'm giving out an invite, it may as well go to someone who will contribute.
- Gesad, on 07/13/2009, -0/+3Creating a dedicated network for the purpose could incorporate some safegards and work arounds. Current torrent sites could be converted into hash file and rating sites. They won't point to any files or track anything just provide numbers to verify if torrents are safe. You could also build a rating/ trust system into the client , like shareaza has , to reduce it.
Tor is used by comment spammers and gets blocked by many sites and services. It is all good stuff to think about though. - Gesad, on 07/13/2009, -0/+3The traffic and file for each torrent is quite small, I don't understand why there isn't a freenet type network , a darknet dedicated to just track or serve torrents files. Distribute the client for it within a normal BT client,
Only connect to that network to download/update the torrent file and initial host info. DHT and other mechanisms can keep the ball rolling.
The actual file downloading can be performed over the normal network protocols. The anon layer drawbacks like speed wouldn't be an issue as the files are so small and the use would be widespread. - a 100mb torrent cache could hold nearly 1000 torrents for each user/node to distribute with anonymity and redundancy.
What would be the problems with this approach? - Riggs, on 07/13/2009, -1/+4Jesus christ get the ***** off of digg
- willrs, on 07/13/2009, -1/+4they should build an api for public trackers where you wont reach 100% unless you've seeded at least 50% of what your downloading.
- dsmx, on 07/13/2009, -1/+4Suing customers for using the best service available is not the way of making them use your service instead.
- zer0mass, on 07/13/2009, -0/+3freenetproject.org
Not as fast as BT but it works pretty well for popular files. - Beerduck, on 07/13/2009, -0/+3But don't put all your eggbaskets in one basket!
- factsahoy, on 07/13/2009, -0/+3So which sites list the torrents being tracked by these trackers?
- alpha88, on 07/13/2009, -1/+3SSH Tunneling ftw.
- inactive, on 07/13/2009, -1/+3This will still get people landed in court for distribution. Still not as efficient and secretive as newsgroups or IRC.
- Lewie, on 07/13/2009, -2/+4That's why I hate very private trackers. I have some friends that use a game torrent site, and they're always worried about their ratio. Then the site came out with an announcement that they need to invite more people because people can't get their ratios up.
Also I didn't download/upload anything in their required amount of time and I lost my account.
I think a semi-private site with a lenient ratio system works best. - AboveandBeyond, on 07/13/2009, -2/+40008?
- TnTBass, on 07/13/2009, -0/+2You're right. They have a business model that does not work in the digital age. Just like hundreds of unskilled labor jobs were replaced by machinery in the industrial age, old business models will be replaced by new ones in the digital age.
Those that became successful after the industrial age were the people who learned that there will be a need to repair and maintain that equipment, just like those who will become successful in the digital age will learn to develop a new business model to capitalize on P2P, not those who look to revert back to the old days. - Culyt, on 07/13/2009, -0/+2The problem with distributed tracking is its open to spamming. I think an onion routing system like Tor would be a better system. That way someone can just buy a system on Amazon EC2 or whatever, dump tor on there and a tracker and no one would have any idea where it is.
Someone could make a webkit based browser with embedded Tor and a tracker that resolves to localhost (and have all the downloaded torrent files changed to that address) and redirects to the real tracker (also could be hosted on Tor). - mac888, on 07/13/2009, -0/+1anonymizered...
- alpha88, on 07/13/2009, -1/+2Yeah I have some invites but they're going to people I can trust to seed.
- DarkShroud, on 07/13/2009, -0/+1Either way I'll use the PublicBT trackers.
- dbz253, on 07/13/2009, -0/+1yes, but most ***** leechers wouldn't know how to do that.
- scriptcoder, on 07/13/2009, -1/+2"Suing customers"
They're not customers if they don't buy. They're freeloaders.
djbon2112: Amazon has free previews as does iTunes. And don't forget you're not being forced to buy anything. - venom8599, on 07/13/2009, -0/+1They wouldn't need to know how if someone writes a client for them to avoid that kind of restriction. Not to mention the fact that tracker-side ratio monitoring is very inaccurate, especially if you have a dynamically assigned IP address. Hell, a few days ago I finished a 38GB torrent from Demonoid (tracked only by Demonoid's tracker) and my ratio reflects only ~12GB of that download.
- ChoixAkion, on 07/13/2009, -1/+2Oh god if only the RIAA thought of demonoid as their biggest threat.
Long live What and Waffles. -
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