What is Digg?46 Comments
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+43Pay attention ISPs; do this and you get my business. I don't DL a bunch of crap either, I just want my privacy protected.
- Buttercup, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29@kevincannon
at least half of music pirates wouldn't steal the music they download if the recording industry would present a viable, reliable, and well worked music and content delivery system. i'm not going to pay $20 for a cd that only has 2 good songs on it. and i'm not going to pay $1 for a song that is crippled with horrible DRM that doesn't let me do anything with it.
the fact is, people ARE yearning for digital content, but the recording industry is being a bunch of douche bags and are trying to control everything ad nausium. - MaddDog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28It's as if the voices of millions of *IAA lawyers, exeutives and cranky musicians cried out in terror, then were suddenly silenced.
- duke_nate, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25"Privacy Prevails: German ISP Forced To Delete IP Logs"
An angel just got it's wings. - tokyomonster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24And by delete they mean put it in the recycle bin.
- bollerwagen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19this is only a temporary victory. Due to the new EU Data Retention law all ISPs will have to store the data between 6 and 24 months.
- Ascus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Great! Germany is traking people less and less, Great Brittain and USA are traking people more and more Sounds like a reversal of 1940's. Next USA will be bulding walls on its borders and require visa's to leave the country...
- koregaonpark, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19This is awesome news. Especially because the results of downloading a song over a P2P netowork in Germany can lead to a jail sentence.
- vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Privacy is very important for democracy to work. The Germans know this because of all the information tracking they dealt with during WWII Germany and East Germany.
- MarkStrube, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23Die in a fire kevin....... die in a fire.
- NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"I don't buy that. If you don't like a product or can't afford it then simply don't buy it. It's not an excuse to steal."
First off, it's not theft, it's copyright infringement. There IS a difference, and it's significant. I needn't explain it here, go look it up yourself.
"I don't want to buy digital content when i'm unsure i'll be able to play it in the future"
...Okay so far.
"so, instead I buy CDs and rip them."
Ah, here's a problem. By buying CDs from the major record labels, you continue to support the RIAA and the like. You are essentially voting with your wallet that you're willing to buy their old product and encouraging the stagnant business model.
"Piracy will not make companies rush to provide decent digital services, money will."
No, actually. The RIAA and other labels/music associations are trying to force US to spend our money where THEY want us to. They're trying to preserve their business model because they're too afraid to take the risk. A bunch of people who go the way of piracy do so to:
A. Stick it to the RIAA
B. Encourage change
C. Avoid paying what they think is an unjust, inflated price.
It's not exactly civil disobedience, so much as market forces. This is how the market works, and the music industry isn't playing along. Now people are going routes they might not otherwise have gone. You can continue to be a music industry shill, but I haven't bought or even downloaded any big label music for years, not just because I don't like their business practices and irresponsible litigation, but because a great deal of the music they promote is crap, designed specifically to sell CDs, not to encourage creative greatness. I dislike the music industry for much more than overpriced music. - Corneliusm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I almost laughed, but then I remembered that it's actually happening here. :(
- shiva74, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Read carefully:
"The decision does not mean that T-Online is now obliged to delete all their IP-logs, the customers first need to complain."
complain in court, to be precise... - zcreem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8How does this affect other ISP's in Germany, that's what I would like to know.
- malkir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6So now we need someone that is connected to that ISP to host a huge TOR server with a massive amount of bandwidth. Then they can daily send a notice to take down any information about their activities.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I just need to draw everyones attention to what Bollerwagen said:
"this is only a temporary victory. Due to the new EU Data Retention law all ISPs will have to store the data between 6 and 24 months"
This is true. The ISP's have to save all emails and records of which sites everyone has visited for two years, and, depending on country, the police has free access to go on fishing expeditions in the logs. - montagg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What does "no choice but to comply" mean? Will they get sued if they don't do it? How long is the process? What are the damages?
If they don't, or it it's long, or if the damages are less than the risks/advantages of not deleting their logs... they probably won't anyway. - andergriff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This has not actually cleared all the legal hurdles in Germany. I predict the RIAA will hide behind the anti-terrorism laws and eventually prevail in this case. Although this was a high appeals court, it was not the equivalent of our Supreme Court. The fight will continue.
- jessekeys, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4http://www.kein1984.de/musterklage.html -- you have to send something like this to t-online, then they legally *have to* delete the logs.
great news, hope the court decision applies to the other ISPs as well.
state of surveillance--
privacy++
unfortunately, we won't be able to prevent more surveillance taking place... this is just a lil glimpse of hope in the midst of all the other bad news to keep the optimists in us alive. - JacNet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Time for the Germans to get h4xing... While they still can.
- dynacrylic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hurray! It got me to thinking too. The Land of the Free is now the Land of the Monitored. I too cannot wait until the US starts something like this.
I'm waiting for the US gov't to now start putting pressure on Germany to reconsider it's decision. (you know the RIAA is going to start to CRIAA over this and make the US step in)
I just want my privacy, something my government has been reluctant to grant since 911. - Peynis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3good news...T-Online happens to be my ISP :D
- hukedonfonix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The children! The children! Oh god why doesn't anyone think of the children! Oh and terrorists too...
- absolin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3now the search engines need to delete our queries
- lagnut, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5how will they handle abuse-complaints (SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM) now?
- metalica77, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3That's good that the germen courts are on our side for once. That rule should be implamented in America to.
- tehpoutine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's a trap!
- Systembomber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2pederasses? do you mean peadaphiles?
- DanielNielsen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sounds cool, i hope that ***** makes it to Denmark too.
- Llan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is not quite correct. They ruled only in favour of the one person who went to court, only his records can't be recorded right now, not sure what the further implications will be, especially since European laws say exactly otherwise!
- shiva74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1no, you can ask t-online to not save your ip - but only if you have a flatrate.
if t-online doesn't agree, you *have* to go to court to get your ip-logs removed. - nasium, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Does your ISP like P2P users? Check this link out: http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/archive/index.php/t-9678.html
- zcreem, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Stupid *****, not even remotely amusing.
- williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What a telecom provider means by that is "We LIKE selling out our customers to any law-enforcement schmuck that wants to peek at what people are doing."
- wladi001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yes, it's true, new EU-regulations demand to save the logs for at least 6 months. But here in Germany most people don't think that this regulation will be in power for very long because it's against the constitution and by virtually 100% chance the supreme court will repeal it.
- undefeatedone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0They like their money, if that's what you're getting at, nasium.
- sweckz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0great news, hope we can see more of this.
- critic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Vote Democratic today and cross your fingers.
- Harrison88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Anyone fancy giving us an English translation of the letter?
Thanks. - thegrio, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Am I the only one thinking about the pederasses and what this means for them? 8 year olds, T-Online, 8 year olds.
- acomj, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4Wow, way to digg down kevincanons comments.
He does have a point, although a interesting way of putting it.
I create content, some is copyrighted and some (code ) I release GPL. Without copyright the GPL won't exist. But when you create content you are given rights by governments that are intended to encourage its creation.
1) Copyright infringment/theft does deprive artists of revenue. It really does make a difference people, because you are enjoying they're work that they wish to be compensated for.
2. Anonymity is a double edge sword. I stand behind my actions/words, so I choose not to be anonymous. I can see some cases where it is desirable to be anonymous legitimately. Honestly though, mostly this anonymity sounds like it will be used for petty
copyright infringment crimes. - Systembomber, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Heil Hitler :D
- kevincannon, on 10/12/2007, -19/+4Buttercup - I don't buy that. If you don't like a product or can't afford it then simply don't buy it. It's not an excuse to steal.
I don't want to buy digital content when i'm unsure i'll be able to play it in the future, so, instead I buy CDs and rip them. Occasionally I'll buy stuff online from stores where that sell mp3s like bleep.com. You could also support somwhere like emusic.com. Piracy will not make companies rush to provide decent digital services, money will. If you want to watch TV Shows after their viewed use a Tivo, VCR or something like Slingbox.
If you're going to pirate, at least have the balls to admit you're stealing, and don't hide under the guise of some kind of civil disobedience. - dBLiSS, on 10/12/2007, -20/+3Looks like the terrorist have won again!
*sarc-tag* - kevincannon, on 10/12/2007, -52/+7Hurray - people can continue to steal without suffering the consequences of their actions!
I'm tired of pirates that give the industry a reason to distrust consumers and prevent them from seeing genuine customers yearning out for digital content.
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