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- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28Full article contents for those who CBF :D
January 11, 2006
In a Flash, Camera Dealers Feel the Web's Wrath
By MICHAEL BRICK - New York Times
The last best address leads to a metallic gray warehouse by the waterfront in Sunset Park, Brooklyn. Trash haulers go about and there is a dull buzzing sound in the hallway. Graffiti gives information that white people are devils.
Envelopes marked Price Rite Photo are stacked by a door. No one has picked up the mail since the business quit the premises two months ago, said Robert Colon, the handyman. Telephone calls to the company go unreturned.
The proprietors of Price Rite are a subject of complaints to the state attorney general, the city Department of Consumer Affairs, the county district attorney and the Better Business Bureau. The company is only one of several online camera dealers in Brooklyn that have gained nationwide notoriety for hard sales tactics and bait-and-switch advertising, but when customers suddenly began rallying against the dealers, Price Rite was the center of attention.
What began late in November with a disputed order for a Canon EOS has led to prank calls and attempts to cripple Web sites, police reports of death threats, intervention by global Internet companies, a new city investigation and, all the while, spirited coverage by technology news Web sites.
The market for digital camera gear, it turns out, happens to have a lot of overlap with the technology-minded, Web-logging set, whose vengeance is served without much pause. "So many people have had the same problem before," said Danny Start, a computer systems analyst in Birmingham, England, who made prank calls to Price Rite and posted recorded conversations on the Internet late last year. "This time, we all heard about it and thought we'd do something about it."
Many of the camera retailers documented in consumer complaints operate in the gray market, a broad term describing generally legal practices such as importing products packaged for sale outside the United States. Whether for its immigrant population or its ports, Brooklyn has gained a reputation as a center of the gray market for cameras, especially since an investigation by PC World magazine in 2003 focused on Brooklyn dealers.
The companies promote products on their Web sites and submit offers to online services like Yahoo! Shopping, which searches prices on more than 100 million products from more than 100,000 merchants, according to Yahoo!
Complaints submitted to investigative agencies describe tactics like promising low prices but canceling orders or making threats when customers decline to add batteries and other accessories to their purchases.
"It is a perennial problem for us, particularly in New York, not necessarily for New York customers but for customers around the country," said Anthony Barbera, manager of the Information and Investigations Department of the Better Business Bureau of New York. "It is kind of a gray area, and we don't have enforcement power."
Keeping track of the companies has been a challenge, Mr. Barbera said, because they shift identities, shedding each Web site as it gains a bad reputation.
Without evidence of outright fraud, law enforcement agencies have largely declined to pursue criminal charges. This year, the state attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, mediated four complaints against Price Rite and referred two to the city Department of Consumer Affairs.
"It's just not something we have the resources to pursue, in terms of you need a pattern and you need a number of complaints and a similarity in the pattern in order to put an action together," said Brad Maione, a spokesman for Mr. Spitzer.
Other complaints were referred to the Brooklyn district attorney, Charles J. Hynes, Mr. Maione said. A spokesman for Mr. Hynes said his office refers them to the attorney general and Consumer Affairs.
That department's jurisdiction includes businesses operating within the five boroughs or serving city consumers from elsewhere.
Because the online camera dealers use warehouse spaces in Brooklyn but not storefronts, policies for handling complaints from Internet customers outside the city are still evolving.
After what happened last month, though, "we will be investigating," said Dina Improta, a spokeswoman for the department.
Outside legal channels, camera enthusiasts have been building a case against Brooklyn dealers for years. A great hero of the movement is Don Wiss, 56, a self-described "Woodstock baby" who wears frameless glasses and denim shirts.
From his home in Park Slope, Mr. Wiss promotes gluten-free eating and car-free transportation. For fun, he tracks addresses associated with online camera dealers, rides his Dutch Batavus bicycle (with fenders, chain casing and adjustable handlebars) to those addresses, takes photographs and posts the images on his Web site.
"I'm trying to be neutral," Mr. Wiss said, "just publicize it so people can make their own decision."
His Web page is a gallery of shuttered warehouses, mailbox stores and apartment buildings. The address, at donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/, is known among serious camera consumers, but its fame grew when it was mentioned in an online rant by Thomas Hawk of Piedmont, Wash.
On Nov. 29, Mr. Hawk posted a 2,333-word complaint about Price Rite Photo on his Web site, describing hard sales tactics and threats. By 2 a.m. the next day, this dispute over a $3,000 camera was an enormously popular topic of discussion online, casting Mr. Hawk in the timeless role of the outraged underdog.
Internet gunslingers tend to shoot first and ask lots of questions while shooting, so the attacks on Price Rite came quickly and with much discussion. Some bragged of tying up the company's phone lines, others of flooding its Web site with excess traffic. It is unclear whether that tactic worked.
"The world of blogs is such an echo chamber that, a few places pick it up, you literally are generating tons of traffic," said Lee Holmes, 28, who posted similar complaints on his own site from his home near Seattle.
There were conscientious objectors, too. One discussion participant anonymously wrote, "This is vigilante justice; there are proper channels to deal with this."
After reading Mr. Hawk's complaints, Yahoo! Shopping blocked Price Rite from its service, according to Sabrina Crider, a spokeswoman for the company. Mr. Hawk quickly declared victory, and online discussion forums with names like Digg filed the story under headlines like "Digg Users Take Revenge at Bad Online Store."
But the episode was not complete for Mr. Wiss, whose photographs of Brooklyn buildings had been mentioned in Mr. Hawk's rant under the headline "Update #20."
On Dec. 14, Mr. Wiss said, he received several calls accusing him of putting stores out of business and threatening him with death. He said the threats were all bluster, but he reported the calls to the police and adamantly refused to allow photographs of his face for this article. He said he hopes to trace the calls if they continue.
At the warehouse in Sunset Park, Mr. Colon, the handyman, had his own ideas about the whereabouts of Price Rite and its proprietor.
"He owes me money," Mr. Colon said, explaining that he was never paid for moving an air-conditioner. "That's why he doesn't come here to pick up the mail."
= e n d = - rOckAPE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Kinda makes you wonder why this same thing isn't happening to the RIAA. They've wronged the people far more.
- ,,|,_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Internet gunslingers tend to shoot first and ask lots of questions while shooting"
Classic - ++Digg for that sentence alone - theone3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Bypassword :D
http://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=www.nytimes.com - MrMysterious, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sweet...too bad their only out of business until they open ups "supercheapdigicams.com".
- misterpony, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2priceritephoto.com and barclaysphoto on ebay are both still up - they must be operating somewhere - why does it assume they are out of business?
- jimphelps, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Is Tiger Direct next?
http://digg.com/hardware/Tiger_Direct_Complaints_Adding_Up
http://digg.com/technology/Tiger_Direct_uses_False_Advertising_to_get_sales
http://digg.com/deals/tigerdirect.com_rebate_program_a_scam_
http://digg.com/hardware/Gaming_Rig_-_$128.94 - SolidGun1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Okay....who's next? Brining it on bad businesses....you are going to get dugg out of business if you screw with us!!!!
- Gregd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm willing to bet that they've only moved and are not actually out of business....
- jmccorm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> I wonder how long before our much-lauded vigilante tactics DIGG someone who is entirely
> underserving of such action?
Dude, it already happened. See:
http://digg.com/security/O_Reilly_writer_Steve_Mallett_has_stolen_digg_s_code - dstart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I am in the NY Times :) That's a first.
- Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wonder how long before our much-lauded vigilante tactics DIGG someone who is entirely underserving of such action? I don't think I'm comfortable with this. Report them to the authorities and local news media if unethical acts or fraud are afoot.
- wilf_brim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well, nice to see that the NYT gets the story wrong, again. BuyRitePhoto shut down it's old premesis. They just changed names (see Barclay's photo) and moved. If you read some of the links in the old comments, you will see that this is just standard procedure for these guys. Like all felons, they change names and locations like the weather.
So, don't use these folks. Ever. For anything. The ONLY internet store that can be trusted in the NYC area is B&H Photo. Nobody else. End of story. Anything else and you deserve anything you get.
And I agree that, at this stage, only buy at well known sites, like Newegg, Amazon, Buy, and maybe a few others. - dnthomps, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you guys and the NYT think that PRP is out of business... you are all smoking crack.
Yes the company name PriceRitePhoto may not be making any more money but the owners of it are... and I will guarantee that. - hash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Track the people, not the company name(s), to keep them out of business and to help stop the scamming.
- Bromskloss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"way to close your mind."
"Just another example of ignorance."
Oh, come on. Is it so strange to avoid, or even despise a certain news paper? - misterpony, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'd say they're not out of business. There are bids on some of their stuff on ebay (as Barclays Photo) right now, even after all this: http://stores.ebay.com/barclaysphoto_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQdptZ0QQfclZ3QQftidZ2QQsclZ2QQtZkm
- Bromskloss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17of7 writes: "The whole PriceRitePhoto thing was overblown anyway. It's a good example of bored desk jockeys, procrastinating college students, and preteen haxorz who have too much time on their hands to bitch and complain."
Disagree. PriceRitePhoto was scumbags. They needed to be stomped on. - voyetra8, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0For people complaining about "proper channels": STFU
If you think complaining to the BBB does anything, you are mistaken. It's like wearing dark pants and pissing yourself. Nobody notices but you get a nice warm feeling just the same.
The same goes to the attorney general. THEY ADMIT TO RECEIVING MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS AND FAILING TO ACT ON THEM.
Regular channels are useless. The BBB is useless. The AG is useless. The media is useless. If 9/11 and Katrina have taught us one thing, it's that you can't rely on the government to protect your ass.
DIGG JUSTICE FOR THE WIN!!!!!! - Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Folks, PriceRite Photo is not out of business: they renamed themselves "Barclay's Photos", and continued operations elsewhere, on Ebay if I'm not mistaken.
If everyone congratulates themselves for putting PriceRite out of business, it's a false sense of accomplishment. PriceRite just shed it's shell; they're still operating, and likely without better ethics.
http://www.digg.com/deals/PriceRitePhoto_Changes_Name_on_eBay_to_Barclay_s_Photo - Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0From Thomas Hawk's blog entry regarding the name change: (Quote)
http://thomashawk.com/2005/12/priceritephoto-update-21-changing.html
_________________________________________
Also here's another piece of evidence (an old Google "sales representative" job offering ad from 2000) tying Chaim Pikarski to this maze of camera company names and businesses. Thus far the names that seem to be tying together include
PriceRitePhoto,
Barclay's Photo,
Film4Less,
Edigix,
CP Industries,
The Camera Zone,
TheCameraMall,
Film Shop,
Film Shop Clipper USA.
The Film Shop in the job offering above, with Pikarski's name, is at the same address as Don Wiss (who yesterday received a death threat) documented as being associated with TheCameraMall. Evidence suggests that TheCameraMall may be linked with PriceRitePhoto. - Cerberus047, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i dont get what really happend i keep on hearing people going omg price right photo needs to burn in hell but im too afraid to ask since they are all so mad....
- nzeeshan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0halaluiaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!
- Gardenhead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0B&H photo actually have catalogs, and things like that. Highly reccomend them as well. I just sort of watch this story happen. Seems like the NYT are calling the people involved vigilantes. I think they missed the point of the story. And when is digg really a "discussion forum"!?
- falcyn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0They are back already, "back and fully operational." Shipping orders, even (yeah, right.). http://digg.com/technology/Price_Rite_Photo_is_Back
- unclejesse0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That's awesome. It's amazing that a community of people like Digg can have power like that. I think we should be the judicial system.
- Clazor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The article accuses us digg users of taking action, then asking questions. Even comments here say this isn't right, and the proper action would have been to contact the authorities. However, digg users did ask questions. The original post was to the guys blog which contained a detailed description of the deception tactics going on at pricerite with proof. After digg users read this, they then began to institute their own vigilante scheme. Although, these crooks may still be at large, it shows the power that we digg users have, and we have put a dent on their business, we can be sure of that. As far reporting to the authorities, it will not do you any good. The laws have not caught up with the times and there are just still too many jurisdictional problems involved. For now, "vigilante" style justice is the only way. And I support it. WHOS NEXT IN LINE FOR DIGGEVENGE?
- jsnkc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0priceritephoto.com is still online so it doesn't look like they are out of business....unless they are just taking orders and collecting money and not shipping anything out.
- sgtkillmore, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0gotta get those guys for good
- teh_techie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0dugg-ded
- jobeats, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Internet gunslingers tend to shoot first and ask lots of questions while shooting"
yep, sounds like digg - anonymousabe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0GOOD RIDDANCE
- olegk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hate to bring bad news, but must inform you that you achieved NOTHING. They will be in business under different name in no time.
Here's the list of the stores with terrible feedback:
http://www.resellerratings.com/reseller_list.pl?rating_type=2&rating_history=1&category=5&rating_limit=&sort=3&page=23
Until people get arrested and fined accordingly, you can do nothing. - hotwaterham, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0THE SAGA CONTINUES...!
- zeroreality, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I find it disturbing that they mentioned digg as an online discussion forum rather than a tech news site.
- Monkeyfarmer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I find it disturbing that there is NO ONE with either the will or the power to protect consumers. The BBB by their own admission does not have enforcement ability. The AG does not see this as important enough to do something about it.
Nice to know our tax dollars are being put to such great use!
The BBB is WORTHLESS. - dj_sea2005, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Kinda makes you wonder why this same thing isn't happening to the RIAA. They've wronged the people far more."
because your IP gets LOGGED, oh noes! - badbilly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0death to the photo scam shops!!
- mtupker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0While in most cases I don't agree with vigilantism, this article did a good job of explaining why the proper channels were not willing to do much. It's just too bad these people can't get their money back.
- deadite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Quick, form a lynch mob!
- MarkJ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I just bought a Nikon D50 from buydig.com and they sold me a supposedly new kit but it had been opened before and there was dust on the lens and inside the camera body! You just can't trust camera stores with 5 star ratings in the NYC New Jersey area...period
- KamikazeH20mln, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0""Kinda makes you wonder why this same thing isn't happening to the RIAA. They've wronged the people far more."
dj_sea2005: because your IP gets LOGGED, oh noes!"
no, because their team of lawyers will be subpoenaing you within a few days, guaranteed! - Bluezdood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The moral of the story is:
Don't screw with the Digg army! - tdkme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Look at the junk the RIAA has put up there on there site.... then need to bring down their horrible site...
- Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Go Digg army!
- Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0++Digg for "Internet Gunslingers"
"Yaw'll better draw faster than me before I put a hole in your router the size of your ego inflated head"
:) - beauregard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Times rips off New York Post story, which was timelier and better.
- neofactor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why is this under DEALS?
No dig for bad listings. -
Show 51 - 80 of 80 discussions
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