What is Digg?74 Comments
- god4twenty, on 10/12/2007, -7/+62legality has little effect on corporate or government actions nowadays.
- ldhertert, on 10/12/2007, -7/+53Or perhaps they just figure that there's no reason to stop breaking the law now.
- asshopo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+38Another set of servers with the same codebase :)
- NYC10004, on 10/12/2007, -4/+34This is incredibly illegal on the authorities part. It almost makes you want to become a renegade.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+32You unlawfully raided and confiscated The Pirate Bay's property, now you don't want to return it, that is fuk-ed up.
- asshopo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24Thank god for backups!
- masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19asshopo: and a backup from a few days before the raid.
- benhorstmann, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20There's plenty more countries, they aren't going away any time soon.
- quine, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19"Look, the US government is one of the most inefficient and bumbling entities on the planet. I mean trying to get them to do something successfully is like trying to get a blind guy, with muscular dystrophy, to sink 3 pointers consistently from half-court!"
@twinklyJesus
FINALLY! Someone else on digg that (actually) has experience with the Fed! Big diggs for you. - spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Police don't steal, they seize. Governments don't steal, they requisition. Citizens don't share, they steal.
- matthewsr2000, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15lets see, a judge who works for the government is going to decide whether or not the government did the wrong thing. . .
am i the only one that sees a conflict of interest here?
this is the reason that the legal system is largely a joke. - synmoo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17I'm sure they're tied up in some red tape and I'm sure it's intentional. Perhaps they figure if they just keep taking the servers it'll just get too expensive for tpb to live on.
- saisumimen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12A lot of the times articles that have better headlines and/or descriptions make it to the FP, those with confusing, misspelled, or inaccurate ones don't. Get over it.
- weirdone, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13its an illegal operation in your country perhaps, but running the site is legal in their own.
- twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -11/+20My question was not sarcasm...it was a question regarding Swedish legal precedent. Does anyone have an answer or do you just mod anything down that might be anit-TPB?
- sofa0ne, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12"Look, the US government is one of the most inefficient and bumbling entities on the planet. I mean trying to get them to do something successfully is like trying to get a blind guy, with muscular dystrophy, to sink 3 pointers consistently from half-court!"
See that would be the case if you aren't a corporate entity or have nothing to offer them. Put money on the table and they move fast. How do you think minimum wage got shot down? They can increase their own wages just fine but they use an excuse like it would put a strain on small businesses for not upping the money. I won't get going on all that.
@djork "99.99% percent illegal activity?"
Don't make yourself look as stupid as the RIAA and MPAA.
It has nothing to do with how 'nerdy an illegal activity' is, it has to do with logic.
A torrent contains no illegal information.
Just because the Pirate Bay allows people to share information that may or may not be legal doesn't mean they are doing anything illegal.
Gun Companies make guns who's primary purpose is to kill but the gun company isn't responsible for all murders that happen. The Highways and Interstates allow people to travel even drunk people to travel should that be against the law? Cellphones are used in IED's(Improvised Explosive Devices) should we label Nokia a terrorist and stop them from doing business?
Use your head man. - twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17I just find it hard to believe that the US government and/or RIAA/MPAA have enough power to manage this much control over the Swedish court-system. Something else is going on.
Look, the US government is one of the most inefficient and bumbling entities on the planet. I mean trying to get them to do something successfully is like trying to get a blind guy, with muscular dystrophy, to sink 3 pointers consistently from half-court! It would be more believable if it were a corporation doing something directly, under the table so to speak, with the Swedes.
Even that, I believe is highly unlikely. No, something else is going on. They've (Pirate Bay) pissed someone off in Sweden who has powerful friends. They thumb their noses at everyone in authority, not just American movie/music industry groups. Someone there has dropped the hammer on them and they are not going to let those servers go until they find some evidence they can hang those guys with.
I'm no fan of MPAA/RIAA, and I'm no supporter of TPB either, this is my best shot at figuring out an unbiased reason for this to be happening the way it is...IMHO - NYC10004, on 10/12/2007, -10/+17His question didn't have a rhetorical tone. You just projected a rhetorical tone onto his text because you wanted to.
- Seta, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@ThinkDifferent
"Promoting illegal activity is paramount to engaging in it directly. In this case, Pirate's Bay is acting as a collective organization for the purpose of promoting illegal activity. Typically this is referred to as racketeering. While you may feel the riaa/mpaa's clients overcharge for their products it doesn't absolve you of the illegal behavior file "sharing" systems promote."
Correct. In the United States this would indeed be illegal, but this isn't the United States. Secondly, filesharing systems in general do not promote illegal distribution, the users that upload these files, when knowing fully (or perhaps not) that they violate copyright do. Not all sites are aware of the legal status of every single file shared via their system. Most companies, websites, and organizations, do not have the manpower to simply run through and inspect every single download offered on their service at a speed which is fast enough to thwart all transfers of illegal content. The Pirate Bay does not, image upload sites do not, free file hosting sites do not, no file sharing service does. Even if they did, encryption, deceptive naming, compression, are all things that would slow down such detection. You can't just tell a computer "this is illegal, and this is illegal", and expect it to find all variants of a certain music file, encrypted, re-encoded, etc. The idea of blaming the distributor seems much more like a way to narrow sights, and save money. It's not nearly as large an operation to sue one person, as it is to sue millions of users.
The Pirate Bay however, does advocate and promote piracy, they say so themselves, and promote their site as such. Not all trackers do this, some specifically forbid the posting of illegal content (most do), but hunting down and identifying this content would require an audit by a human individual, this isn't something a computer alone can do, submitting a pattern to recognize to a matching system would work for finding just that file, but it would take nothing more than a slight change to thwart it. While text can be easily identified, the many mediums on whicih data can be stored these days make digital audits of data difficult. This has reached the point (and has long been there), when such digital policeing has become nearly impossible and/or highly unreliable.
"It always amazes me that people bitch about riaa/mpaa, yet continue to want the content they produce."
They do not produce it, the product comes from the artists and group that actually create the product, which they then pay a publisher to duplicate, and sell. The riaa and mpaa represent most major publishers, meaning that while we don't want to buy a product from them and submit to their rules, we have no choice, because we have nowhere else legal to go. So unless you have any more suggestions there, please carry on.
"Boycotting the goods of the riaa/mpaa's clients sends a much louder message than stealing their goods."
However the idea of a large enough group of people taking such an action is unlikely to ever actually happen. I won't simply stop listening to music, and buying videos simply for a protest that most likely will have little or no effect. I would like to go on with my life. The situation you speak of in which a boycott would be effective would require a much greater number of people boycotting than there currently are, and most likely will ever be. Unless you can assure me, reliably, that on X date, a huge amount of people will boycott with me (and this number must be rather large), and will sustain this boycott for a prolonged period of time (enough to cause damage), then I will go on doing what I must do. - swedeface, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I get so ***** pissed of at the US. Everything was nice and calm here in Sweden then the US threatens to blacklist us. ***** that.
I know your country is boring because of all the laws you have, but stop ***** around in the rest of the world. - TheRappingShoe, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10It sounds like they are keeping the servers temporarily because the investigation is ongoing. Once investigations are complete (whenever that may be) then they will have to return the servers.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Now if only they fixed the tracker it self to show Seed and Leecher amounts, then it would be like nothing ever happened.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9That's pretty much standard protocol I'd think. In the USA, you don't get your confiscated evidence back until the trial is over and you are found innocent. It'll only be a matter of time I think.
- Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"legality has little effect on corporate or government actions nowadays."
true but you would think goverments would be starting to get worried about citizen unrest (especially when they are all armed)
want to know how every other government was overthrown, the people had had enough, if the governments and bussinesses keep running around believing they can do what they want then there will be consequencies, this of course all depends on how good a job they have done to brainwash the public (you *want* to have no freedom, you *want* to be in servitude to corporations, you dont *need* any rights) - masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Remember lokitorrents, and their gigantic donation fiasco? Well, TPB won't steal the money, and I'm sure they can get roughly 50x that amount of funds through donations. Piratbyran will live on, especially now that all of Sweden is in support of them.
- sophiaperennis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The police are going to start their own Pirate Bay site.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Cops are pawns. Shooting a cop because you disagree with their orders is like shooting a McDonalds cashier because they check $50 for forgeries. Who decides what YOU do at work? You or your boss?
Don't be an *****. Cops are blue collar yes men. Don't shoot the messenger. - pedalwrench, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5what about the other legit web sites on PRQ's web servers?
I would be pissed if my web site was shut down because of another site on my shared server. I wonder if PRQ moved them to other hardware? - pfunked, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5> no. you change the laws
In other words, we shoot the politicians? - twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8If PRQ's accounting system was on there, and their IT staff was worth a crap, they have up-to-date backups and sources for disaster recovery. They've lost nothing. If not, oh well, you have to plan for disaster.
- victimofkratina, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5so we shoot the politicians?
- saska, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Did anybody click through and read the article in The Local?
It's not the Pirate Bay's servers that are being held, it's servers belonging to PRQ, their hosting company.
Sorry, but inaccurate. - cmiz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3In the US (depending on who grabs your servers), you usually DON'T get them back. I remember reading about a gaming company that went out of business because the FBI grabbed a ton of their stuff on suspicion and never gave it back. There were lots of lawsuits and everything, but they never got their equipment... come to think about it, I probably read about it on Digg awhile back.
I just hope the laws are different (and sane) in Sweden. - gmurray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I hope the Swedish Govt. sets an example of how a country can exist outside the USAs realm of influence. It makes me sick to my stomach that my own country bullies around countries such as Sweden. It is sad really, and when will Americans do the right thing? When they don't have to work two jobs to pay rent or are not so heavily sedated with McDonalds?
- titlesaysitall, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Thats like saying I'm going to take your baby because we might think he is doing something illegal but we don't intend to return him.
- williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Governments do that, too.
Do your part. Spit on a government goon today. - winnopeg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Exactly what I was thinking. :P
- astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If they are smart they have DR systems scattered across the globe to always fall back on. ;)
- nowisee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Lets all spam the swedish police department with our opinion on the matter. Here is the email adress: rikspolisstyrelsen@polisen.se
See how they feel about getting 1000 emails asking them to release the stolen servers - BL117, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Don't really care whether it's legal or illegal. Anything that pisses the RIAA off is ok in my book. The RIAA is just getting greedy.
- LouieNet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=4199&date=20060628
- twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Mod me down if you want to, fanboys, but this is just like fire/flood/earthquake. You have to keep your data updated and have a plan to get your servers back online FAST. That's the way it works in business/IT in the real world. You have to plan for disasters, and this seizure was a disaster. They already have their data and should have been back in ops with 24 hours.
- victimofkratina, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What Im worried about is since we have the Swedish police under our control, we will just get them to hand the servers over to the MPAA/RIAA. From there they would do all kinds of forensic work, dig through the log files and build up a list of people to sue, even when none of this is supposed to be happening in the first place.
- dupswapdrop, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Well if they are like the cops I know the servers have been sold to some else.
What you want your servers back? oh they were destroyed in testing for illegal activity!
We didn't think you would want them back anyway so , we recycling them for you.
Sorry kid better luck next time, here have a donut. - twinklyJesus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6@isepic:
None of the words he used are copyrighted. You can't copyright common words from the dictionary, you can only "trademark" unique words or phrases. Please stop, you aren't helping TPB's case. - zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Those server belong to the hosting company and no crime under that government's law has been really committed and they still wont return the server. wow that's sucks.
- SupaDawg, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Agreed. but your statement will have no effect and will get modded down because many Americans still believe it is their right to police the world.
- williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Better carry a little pail with you at all times. The RIAA/MPAA have brought the hatered of the people down on themselves. Would you stand between that mafia gang and a lynch mob? Not me.
- avest, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4What the hell are they doing?! Gahh.. PRQ had thier economicsystem on there, if they don't get their server back they must invest in a new system for 150 000 SEK. More in swedish: http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/inrikes/did_13060764.asp
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3"legality has little effect on corporate or government actions nowadays."
No, it has a huge effect on corporate actions. Corporations have to set aside a huge fund to pay off the legal system so that they can do whatever they want. Either tha, or corporations have to buy the priciest lawyers to overpower anyone who stands in their way so that settlements can be made out of court. Legality isn't a set of guidelines, it's a cost of business. -
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