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173 Comments
- recon16, on 10/12/2007, -13/+109PEOPLE THIS IS SERIOUS, a MUST DIGG!
- netman427, on 10/12/2007, -35/+114Sounds like this guy is getting railroaded! Hahahaha... get it? Seriously - this guy is getting the shaft!
- gekkokid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+68step1. he should report them for harassment.
step2. do not give in.
anyway they are claiming that its because he uses java RMI, the case will fall flat on their dirty faces
good luck bro. - blackmagician, on 10/12/2007, -0/+63this is why we need to reduce the lawyer population in this country.
- Brak710101, on 10/12/2007, -2/+508 million americans have "toy" trains they "play" with. Odds are that you know one.
- chaosbuddha, on 10/12/2007, -2/+48I'd send the company a bill for putting spam in my mailbox
- f1gm3nt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+40Funny how the company has this as transaction number 40 after about 3 years of selling their software(patent in 2003)
- Nichevo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+36society needs more vigilantes
- Brak710101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31I use this software for my MRR, its way better than any pay version I have seen/tried. Thats why this company is sueing.
Open-Source FTW. - beejay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27I want to go to law school so I can fight things like this. I'm a CS major right now, but I'm very interested in patent law--although more like anti-patent law.
- spiderland, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27If I ever got into model railroading, I wouldn't buy anything from KAM Industries.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -18/+43Hey KAM, ***** you *****.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26i'm not sure what CS degree you did but in mine there was ***** loads of maths.
- phidong, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28PantherX, he basically said what we all feel in one sentence. Can't get more concise than that! ;)
- aliengoods, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24Damn. I'll have to sue KAM for infringing my patents on 'acting like a total ***** in public' and 'making people want to fire-bomb your building via harassment and ***** behavior'. I think they're clear on my last patent which is briefly described as 'operating a business ethically'. Come to think of it, noone infringes that one any more.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24Irrelevant. KAM plans on bullying him into submission with spurious claims. Did you know you can just walk up and sue people for no valid reason, and get them to settle for cash money? People make a living at it. Extortion? Yes, but you can't spell "extortion" without "tort". After a few years of him shelling out thousands in legal fees, he'll fold like a napkin and settle for an undisclosed amount.
- lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -7/+30diggers are fickle creatures. their digging habbits are often unpredictable and without reason. It doesn't always make sense but, anyways, good times.
- Wikki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Interesting. One of the product lines for the company I work for is used to control trains in a real life setting. The part of the patent that KAM feels this guy is infringing is something we have been doing for years (sending and receiving commands from a single digital device). Our system can easily be used to control model trains or the like with a simple change in the communications configuration. I should dump this off to our lawyers so they can bust KAMs balls a bit.
- flameboy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Yeah I think we all can agree this is absurd. It makes me wonder if there isnt some prior vendetta KAM had against this guy.
All in all, I'm not worried, theres no way this will hold up in court. According to the article, the software was availible before KAM even filed for a patent. - Mazz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19Contact Information
Telephone
503-291-1221
FAX
503-291-1221
Postal address
2373 NW 185th Ave, #416 Hillsboro, Or. 97124-7076
Electronic mail
General Information/Sales: sales@kamind.com
Customer Support: support@kamind.com
Webmaster: webmaster@kamind.com - Rickler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20@shiptoshore they do this in Australia, if you try to sue someone and loose you pay for the party's lawyer(s) and all the court fees. What a wonderful idea?
- Anth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Whats worse is that once he folds, it'll set a precedent. "Well, the last n people settled with us for $x,xxx so its a good idea you do too."
He really needs to sue, but its going to take deep pockets. He needs the EFF or someone to back him up on this. - endgame, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19I would send that company it's invoice back with the heading "GO POUND SAND".....
- DJSdotcom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Hey guys, I read this late last night when it was on the front page and decided to do something about it.
I went to the CVMS website (the lawfirm representing KAM in the suit), found the attorney's name and contact information who signed all the paperwork (his name is Kevin Russell, you can find his information at the "About CVMS" page here: http://www.chernofflaw.com/about/attorneys.php) and then emailed Kevin.
In the email I linked to the USPTO patent link from KAM from April 2002, and then linked directly to the Web Archive cache from 2001. Kevin replied back almost immediately and asked me for the specific date the open source project first started, so I replied back saying I don't know for sure, however the Internet Archive full cache for the JMRI project site (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://jmri.sourceforge.net) lists their first cache of the site in late Summer and early Fall from 2001, and you can click on the links to get cached versions.
He wrote me back saying that he'll take a closer look at these new materials (I CCd Bob Jacobsen on the emails) so hopefully it'll help. - quink, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16I just sent them an invoice for the time I spent sending them an invoice. Sosumi.
- VickyJMRIatty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Folks,
I am Mr. Jacobsen’s attorney. I heard about these postings through the grapevine, and wanted to add some comment.
First, I want to clarify one thing. Mr. Katzer did not sue Mr. Jacobsen. Because of the dispute over the patent rights, I filed a declaratory judgment action on Mr. Jacobsen’s behalf in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California on March 13, 2006. Case number is 06-1905, for those who are interested. You can read the filings on PACER, the court's electronic filing system.
The purpose of the declaratory judgment action is to resolve a dispute over the patent rights. Mr. Katzer claims that Mr. Jacobsen is infringing his patent. Mr. Jacobsen says he is not infringing any valid and enforceable patent right that Mr. Katzer holds. Because of the increased damages for willful infringement, Mr. Jacobsen needs to have a determination of rights and responsibilities as it relates to Mr. Katzer’s patent. There are other causes of action that Mr. Jacobsen is pursuing against Mr. Katzer – antitrust (attempted monopolization), unfair competition, cybersquatting (on a JMRI trademark) and libel. We will address these issues and the issues relating to the declaratory judgment action in due course.
Second, I realize that many of you are angry at Mr. Katzer, and his attorney, Mr. Russell, for the letters they have sent to Mr. Jacobsen, and other actions they have taken against Mr. Jacobsen. I want to ask you to NOT harass them through calls, letters, faxes, emails, etc. It does NOT advance the case in Mr. Jacobsen’s favor. Here’s what will: As we stated in the lawsuit, there are numerous examples of prior art and inequitable conduct which affect patent rights. If you have more evidence, we’ll take it. The key date is prior art existing before June 24, 1998, and more importantly, prior art existing before June 24, 1997. The prior art that we are looking for is:
- A patent or printed publication that described the invention. Source can be from anywhere in the world.
- Evidence of public use, offer for sale, or sale in the United States. (If it’s from outside the U.S., please make a note and send it so we can follow up.)
- Evidence of another person inventing the same thing in the U.S. – the invention must not have been suppressed, concealed or abandoned.
- If the evidence is not the exact invention, then any information (in addition to the evidence) suggesting that the evidence could be combined with something else to successfully make the invention.
My homepage is www.vkhall.com – you can get my address through the website and send it to me. Please send it via mail. My e-mail service provider is not particularly reliable.
Regards,
Victoria K. Hall
P.S. Mr. Jacobsen contacted me through EFF, so the folks there know about this matter. - spjmm0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I am starting to post on as many railroad forums I can find to see if public pressure will prevail
- jayesbee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Fu-huck! I'm a so sick of how big business' contempt and hostility toward the very people who made their fortunes: The consumer. They are taking this country hostage with lawsuits.
Remember how everyone (well, the Republican Party) was screaming about "tort reform" and out of control trial lawyers back in the mid to late 90s? How we had to protect the poor widdle companies from evil, litigation-happy consumers?
Where are our congressmen now that Big Business is on a lawsuit rampage against the very people to whom they are trying to sell their products? - Grayfox777, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15That's a bunch of *****! He has no reason to pay them. If they don't get money, then too bad. Ben did a good thing by making something free. It's like saying someone can't make a new music playing program because Microsoft already made WMP.
- trogdor282, on 10/12/2007, -62/+76I agree, for instance this comment will get exactly 14 diggs.
- Clearz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14This is why software patents are WRONG. I can only speak about the EU but I can say countrys like Poland put a halt to the whole this here for the time being and fair play to them. If we start pateting sofware/algorithms next thing there will be patents on math formulas/laws of physics. Hey Im suing you because you jumped up and fell back to earth.
- sshack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Read his site. Jacobsen is doing a lot to hurt his own case.
In his last response to the lawyers he both says "your patents are invalid" and "You client could enhance his reputation by putting his patents in the public domain". So which is it? Are the patents invalid or not?
Right there you're opening up an avenue of attack, By stating that you think their patents are valid, and should be put in public domain.
He should have had one single reply. "Your clients' patents are invalid. I have several stacks of prior art here. Your clients are about to lose their patent, see you in court."
The correct answer to a legal threat is to punish a company as severely as you possibly can. If you can bankrupt them, it is your moral duty to do so. If more people did that, maybe lawyers would only sue for valid claims. Maybe. - flameboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13They can send as many harassing letters as they want but you dont have to take them seriously, lots of companies do this.
When they actually file a suit, then you can start worrying. And how hard could it be to defend yourself when you can clearly show the date of publication was prior to the patent application? - ravenmuffin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14It is a wonderful idea. Unfortunately, the legal industry is so big in the US its lobbying power is second only to the record industry. On second thoughts, they are the same industry.
- rv8ch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11If you read the patent (link posted far below) you'll see that these guys have patented the obvious, but hidden it in a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo. Essentially, they've tried to patent using a computer to control some hardware. Software patents are a joke, and should not be allowed.
- flameboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11In this situation, its more like: Company A makes and patents their cutting knife. Company A then tries to sue everyone who has made a a cutting knife before them.
- Zipko, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14@ dikn0z - Why would anyone get a Math degree if they want to work with computers for a living? At best you can get a minor in CS with your free electives, or double major which not everyone has time for. Of course the math in a CS degree is easier, those students want to work with computers not numbers.
And one could always say your Math major is the DeVry of Actuarial Science. - Pogue_Mahone, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14How can you infringe on a patent if you don't make any money off it?
My understanding is that a patent entitles you to a portion of any money that someone else makes using your idea. So maybe Ben Jacobsen should offer to settle and give KAM 25% of all his earnings. ;) - TechnoPops, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"How can you infringe on a patent if you don't make any money off it?"
From 35 USC 271:
"Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without authority MAKES, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention, within the United States, or imports into the United States any patented invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent."
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/appxl_35_U_S_C_271.htm
But naturally, since Mr. Jacobsen's software is claimed to be prior art, it's irrelevant. - nanboya, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Wonder what their bandwidth is worth to them? The first two links are a cool 1.1 MB a piece (multiplied by how many diggs?)
http://www.trainpriority.com/kamind/download/manuals/TrainServerAdmin.pdf
http://www.trainpriority.com/kamind/download/manuals/LocoCeManual.pdf
http://www.trainpriority.com/kamind/download/manuals/ClassicPanelManual.pdf
http://www.trainpriority.com/kamind/download/manuals/LayoutCommander2-Manual.pdf
http://www.trainpriority.com/kamind/download/manuals/DecoderCommander-Manual.pdf
http://www.trainpriority.com/kamind/download/manuals/EngineCommanderManual.pdf - PantherX, on 10/12/2007, -17/+27How very eloquent of you. Can I have your card so you may represent me in trial if I ever have legal issues?
- Magwich, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Someone needs to let the "Model Railroading Community" know in a big way so they can boycott KAM.
- therernospoons, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9...just for that I'm going to download the source code.
Human knowledge belongs to the world! - uninvisible, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Matthew Katzer, KAM President - mkatzer@kamind.com
The email address of the president of KAMIND is posted on the corporate site. His name is Matthew Katzer. He is listed as the principal in an ICAA member filing: http://www.icca.org/member/memberpage.asp?id=2671
His email address is on one of the press releases: http://www.trainpriority.com/kamind/pressroom/pressPdf/20041205_KAM_Press_release_Classic_Panel.pdf
I suggest anyone with anything to say should contact him directly. Please digg this comment for others to view - Bob Jacobsen has only given us free code and people should bring it to corportate attention if they don't want to support companies involved in this sort of litigation. - sardonic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10http://www.kamind.net/
and
http://www.traintools.com/ - geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Uh here is the source forge link for 2001, the guy needs to send them this link and be done w/ it:
http://web.archive.org/web/20011203134957/http://jmri.sourceforge.net/ - cheesedog12345, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8A patent is not a right to collect royalties, it is a right to exclude others from practicing the claims of the patent, and that is all it is. A patent is an exclusionary right.
Now, of course, once you have the patent, you can license it and allow others to practice the claims for a fee. But that is a private contract, it is not an inherent right of a patent.
And BTW, I think this is one of the absurdities of patents -- things like the independent invention defense (http://righttocreate.blogspot.com/2005/11/independent-invention-defense.html) seem as natural as, well, nature.
Patents are an encroachment on your natural right to create. Are the incentives offered by a patent system sufficient to trade away that liberty? For me, the answer is no. - defubar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@automagically
That's only in a criminal case, a right provided by the 6th amendment to protect against the government, not a civil suit. - dlichteman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The phone line has live people......Pull out the VOIP!!!!
hehe 0000123456789 is calling you - optikburn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7KAM sucks.. they are pathetic! extorting money from a genius who happens to be generous to give away his creations..
I'll send them hate mail..
General Information/Sales: sales@kamind.com
Customer Support: support@kamind.com
Webmaster: webmaster@kamind.com -
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