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54 Comments
- Nightspark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12I interpreted "IATA ... indicated that it would begin penalising members that failed to introduce electronic tickets" to mean that airlines must offer electronic tickets as an option, not that they must stop issuing paper tickets.
If I'm correct, then the title is inaccurate. - YourTechSupport, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13That would be nice. Preferably contactless biometrics, I don't want to press my eye or hand against something a hundred thousand virulent passengers a day have come in contact with.
- dWhisper, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Well, to stick with how airline travel is right now, they'd have to go with biometrics, and make it some sort of retnal scan. To reduce possible contamination, the ticket counter will personally poke you in the eyes when you plan to travel. Because, if you're not in some sort of physical pain or discomfort, the TSA isn't doing its job.
- Jnetty99, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10That sucks, I actually like the Ticket Stubs...Save each one...
- HumbleDialog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"I think paper money is next."
I hope not... coins are heavy. - itsallgeektome, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I think paper money is next.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Reducing paper usage is always a good thing.
- DBCubix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Biometrics? The TSA has been giving rectal scans for years. haha
- sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7itsmekirby: I am going to go out on a limb and say that you are wrong.
The paper expense would be a recurring cost to an airline.
However, an electronic system would be an asset to the airline that could be amoritizable over many years as a system like that could likely last for maybe 5-10 years.
Over an extended period, it would likely cost less to move to an electronic system. - antron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This is really about the coming of: Multipass!
- jodokast, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6That would make counterfeiting so much funner.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8It's ok i dont like to fly paper airlines anyway.
- Superschill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't know that biometrics would go over well -- some people do not like to give out stuff so personal as retina images or fingerprints. Personally I think it would be great, but I don't believe that they would be able to convince everyone of that.
- Strangers, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What about people who don't have the internet at home?
- 700c26, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You must be looking for tickets in the wrong places. Most of the tickets I've bought recently end up being less expensive than the cost of gas to drive to/from my destination, not to mention the time saved. In the US you can usually fly really cheap as long as you meet the following criteria: 1. You are going to/from major airports. 2. You are booking about a month in advanced. 3. You're not traveling on peak days. 4. You have the ability to pick what times of the day you want to fly.
From http://www.customers-first.org/airfares.html
"When adjusted for inflation, airline prices have fallen 25 percent since 1991. Consumers continue to benefit from the intense competition and improved efficiency unleashed by airline deregulation. Since passenger deregulation in 1978, airline prices have fallen 44.9 percent in real terms."
Prices have fallen 44.9% in real dollars since 1978, and that's with our record high oil prices and record high security expenses. (although prices were pretty high in 1978 too). I think that's pretty damn good. - spenceman01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The article just says that the IATA will require electronic tickets and that it believes that phasing out paper will save money, but it doesn't say that they're phasing out paper tickets completely.
- steger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Maybe this will mean more self-check in stations with more airlines. I love e-ticket/self-check in.
The article mentioned that e-tickets cost the airlines $1, I bet the airlines will add this as a fee to offset the cost (if they don't already). - skyspine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Good thing that won't affect all of the LINEN money that exists.
- Nightspark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Which such ridiculous operating costs it's a wonder airlines can still afford to fly.
- donatj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I payed for my new PC in cash, I perfer cash... What we need is a 25 dollar bill, match our coins to our cash.
- TheThirdWheel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5sishgupta: If it was going to save them money in the long run they would have already switched and they would not have to impose a penalty on the companies who did not switch over.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Is it just me, or is the entire airline industry just one big joke these days? With such ridiculous ticket prices it's a wonder anyone can still afford to fly.
- snark42, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I gotta say, people will never let paper money go away. People in power enjoy cash (prostitutes, drugs, anything your constituents might not want to see you buy.) Maybe some form of digital cash that can't be traced (someone did invent something that would work, but it was way to early for such a system to be adapted.)
- itsmekirby, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10Unless it costs more to reduce the paper usage than it costs to use paper (including all external costs and benefits to society and the environment)
Which is to say, you are wrong. - Jnetty99, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2good point...
Also if the Airlines don't give tickets anymore, its all up to the traveller to print their own e-tickets at home. So now its not costing the Airlines money but the traveller. - Nightspark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They still print boarding passes.
Edit: D'oh, got beat. - hansmast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I work (as an IT Manager) at a travel agency and 5% of international tickets and 2% of domestic tickets that we issue are paper. The only reason that we issue paper tickets anymore is because of silly arbitrary rules that the airlines concoct. Many of the paper tickets we do are for short notice tickets which is utterly counter-intuitive but is an unfortunate fact of life. Yay for IATA! They finally got it figured out!
- hansmast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Another reason that we issue paper tickets is because of airlines that aren't advanced enough to let us do e-tickets like South African and.... AirTran.
- DrSbaitso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You still get a printed boarding card with e-tickets. It's just the ticket/booking that's electronic.
- darkclarity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You still have to print out the tickets etc from your own computer for them to look at and customs to see if they decide you look dodgy. Probably means more paper lost as the last time I printed a BA receipt it has several pages worth of T&C attached.
- seeprompt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1what about elderly people who don't have the mental capacity to order or use an e-ticket?
- MacGyver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How will you know where your seat is if they do away with paper tickets?
- itsmekirby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@sishgupta
I wasn't talking about this situation. I was posting a general comment since deadbaby posted a general comment. Reducing paper usage isn't always a good thing. I agree that in this case it is worth switching (I like the online tickets).
@snark42
I was talking about external costs (costs on the environment) and those are included in the argument. Economics has ways to explain and account for external costs, but most treehuggers don't understand them. While I would agree that the cost of cutting trees on the environment is very high, there can also be very high benefits in some situations which eliminate deadbaby's bold and frankly incorrect statement.
Most people don't understand the most fundamental ideas of economics. When you see something like this you don't say "Using less paper is always good" you say "Do the benefits to society and the environment of this outweight the costs to society and the environment" and that's exactly what I'm trying to say. People need to look at both sides of the coin before their argument can be fair. - 700c26, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2They want to completely eliminate paper tickets, not boarding passes. I didn't even know they still had paper tickets, I thought they had gotten rid of those several years ago.
- chubz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You can still book e-tickets tickets over the phone. Usually the airlines will assess a 'call center service' fee around $5 per ticket if you choose to book this way.
- Rabid_Llama, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm glad someone else caught this -- it's not a removal of paper tickets, but rather a requirement for all airlines to offer an electronic ticket option. I wouldn't be surprised if airlines started charging a small surcharge for requesitng a paper ticket, though.
- daggerhart, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2cash is way too powerful to get rid of. It would cripple all of us bargain hunters that know you can get something for cheaper with a roll of $20s in your hand.
how would you have a yard sale if there wasn't cash?
maybe a weak example, but just trust me.... its not going to happen. - timwizard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Read the title wrong - 'Paper Airline', like paper airplane.
Just thought I'd share. - gleffler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How exactly do "e-tickets" cost anything to issue when it's just a line in a reservation system?
Paper tickets actually have something printed, mailed, etc. -- e-tickets have no associated cost other than costs already inherent in the reservation system (having the reservation system at all, having agents to run it, etc.)
Sure, I like e-tickets just because losing a paper ticket is a tremendous hassle, but I don't buy that it costs $1 to issue an imaginary document. - DoMaGe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Rabid - They already do. Around $25 if an e-ticket is available. Been in place for a couple of years with some of the larger airlines.
- rideagain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Why are people modding "theLEGENDisBACK" down? What he's saying is true, see http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20011219S0016 or http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904rfidtagsexplode.html
- duality, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@700c26
Actually, you're only half correct about ticket prices. "When adjusted for inflation", EVERYTHING is really a bargain, except for people's paychecks. I can't speak for the rest of the world (so I encourage others to confirm or deny this for their necks of the woods), but the single most ridiculous financial problem in the United States today is that the U.S. dollar isn't worth much of anything anymore. As a result, because it takes more money to buy anything out there, then all the "sensitive" markets (petroleum, airline tickets, etc etc) appear to have the most unreasonable prices in American history.
I'm no old fogey, but even I remember when the dollar was strong enough to buy unleaded gas for a dollar a gallon. Inflation is the main problem, and everything else is just a symptom of it. - steger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1We are warriors, not merchants.
- sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I am sure they will create a system where one can purchase over the phone or in person, just like they do today.
I think its silly to assume that just because a company moves to a new information system that it will cut out all human interaction and make it impossible for the computer/internet-less consumers suffer. That would just be bad business and I'd be terribly surprised if that actually happened. - OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2plastic coins with RFID tags
- DoMaGe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1E-Tickets are still typically printed. However, it's on a single copy, which doesn't need to be distributed all over the place. That's the problem with paper tickets... it's the cost of the process of handling and accounting for all the copies... not the hard cost of the paper ticket. Paper tickets are serialized and it used to be that accounts were settled using the coupon numbers in various different places in the industry. Most of these settlements are now electronic... for all but the smaller airlines.
We have been hearing that paper tickets are going away for years. About 10 in fact. However, we still sell lots and lots of hard copy paper ticket printers to travel agencies. Expensive ones too. However, it sounds like this time it is for real. - jackdied, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The lack of E-Tickets was a major pain in the ass for the Python "Need For Speed" sprint. The non US-ian attendees had to be FedEx'd their tickets and some very nearly missed out because of it (you have to take a day or two off to be around to sign for it, etc). If you really refuse to own even a debit card fine, just walk up to the desk with a passport or driver's license. If you refuse to carry either of those then you enjoy your shack in the woods just fine already and aren't likely to be jet setting.
- fatdog789, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1You guys get to use coins? I'm still using metal slabs!
- Superschill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@ TheThirdWheel:
A great deal of companies do not look at things long term; they are more concerned about profits NOW. A switch would mean a large initial cost, which would look bad to stockholders, etc. It might be cheaper in the long run, but they are concerned about not making as much money as last time. - snark42, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0oops
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