digg

Facebook Connect Join Digg About

PR firm hired by San Francisco to delete Craigslist postings?

indybay.org — According to the author of this Craigslist post (original post has been deleted from Craigslist), his firm was hired by the city of San Francisco to flag and hopefully delete any Craigslist postings that painted the city in a negative light.

Who dugg this? Made popular Aug 7, 2006

Digg DudeWhat is Digg?

Digg is a place for people to discover and share content from anywhere on the web. Digg surfaces the best stuff as submitted and voted on by the community. Take the Tour to learn more.

85 Comments

show profanity settings
expand all
  • Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+49This post has been flagged and deleted, move along.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+36"These aren't the droids you are looking for."

  • bepe86, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Gotta love the freedom of speech, I'm glad to see that it is respected...

    Of course, we have no proof that this guys claims are true, or just bollocks.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17this story is useless without proof

    After all, everyone is a PR firm/Nigerian Prince/has a 8-9 inch *****/makes well over $100k annually on the internet
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Glad to see that a fine "freedom" loving city such as San Francisco is more than willing to stifle free speech.
  • cnewmark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I sure wish someone would have asked me, I asked the guy, and he admitted it's a hoax.

    There are people doing really nasty PR stuff, and netvocates and also fls-dci have been accused of very ugly stuff. Check out the investigative journalists at patriotproject.com, look up their work on swiftboaters.

    Craig
    craig@craigslist.org
  • mikemac, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I'd like to see an HDA index for all major cities: Homeless Drug Addicts / block.

    I don't know about many other areas of SF, but I always remembered that Fisherman's Wharf had Bushman - a homeless guy who hid in the middle of the sidewalk behind essentially a few twigs and leaves, then jumped out at people as they passed by like he was leaping out of the bushes and scared them. There were always people on the other side of the street watching him ambush his hapless and confused victims. He never did anything, but he was very funny. He would proclaim anyone who didn't flinch as having "Nerves of Steel!" San Francisco is all about that sort of quirkiness, to my limited experience.
  • mmcmonster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9It took this guy years to figure out that he was doing the wrong thing?

    Maybe he just got fired or lost the contract and has sour grapes? Much more likely.
  • rotten777, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@Zlobadon

    such as? I'm not trying to be a prick. I'm genuinely asking.

    I was heard the bay area was a very cool place to live.
  • ImOscar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@ Moskie
    You can flag certain postings, and if they get flagged enough they get auto-yanked. Kinda like you can flag articles on Digg as lame or inaccurate.
  • headzoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@drakethegreat - If you had to choose between a job that is mildly unethical, or not having a roof over you head, which would you choose?

    I'm not saying it's right to work for a company for three years, when you know what you're doing is wrong. I'm saying the job market sucks, and people take jobs where they can. I'm sure plenty of people here have taken jobs that completely suck, but it's better than being homeless.
  • Moskie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I don't post on the Craigslist forums... but does *anyone* have the ability to delete a post from Craigslist? I'd assume you have to be an admin, so that means this guy would work for/with Craigslist. But he only claims to work for "the government."

    Color me suspicious.
  • Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Don't forget that, in addition, they are also refinancing while enlarging their breasts.
  • speezer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10The last time I was in downtown San Francisco you could not walk a block without having to step over & around a homeless drug addict sprawled on the sidewalk. Other than that it's a great city.
  • superjsuh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5No google results for "Tomkins and Scott" - pretty surprising for a PR firm, although they do probably want to stay covert. Nevertheless, this sounds like a joke.
  • Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5BTW, while it is impossible to verify that this specific post from Craigslist is true, it definitely is not impossible. Check this out:
    http://www.netvocates.com/

    "Careful research and client consultation create a messaging strategy tailored to maximize the positive effect of key trends and events. NetVocates then conducts direct and transparent outreach to bloggers in order to reinforce key messages on targeted blogs – and help rebut misinformation when appropriate."

    Read between the lines. There ARE hired goons floating around on the Internets.
  • mikemac, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6As a longtime Bay Area resident (never lived or worked in SF), I can say that the traffic in SF makes me cringe. Excessive one-way streets make me physically retch.
    But it is a pretty cool place. Literally and figuratively. In Sacramento (where I live now), we had a couple weeks of 100+ temperatures while SF was enjoying a moderately warm 75+. Damn coasties. :-)
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3$900,000 for a 700 sq ft "house". That tells me to never move there.
  • kevinmotel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3its nice that you buy the magnums for him
  • rockefeller, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@ Paktu

    My comment was mostly directed at the "Thank god for the internet" comment.

    I couldn't think of a better person to use for the "creator of the internet" so I just used Al Gore cause I know that it was a controversial.

    : )

  • nicehorsey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Comments on Craig's List adversely affecting real estate prices in San Francisco? How is that supposed to work? "Let's see I want to move to San Francisco and buy a house, I think I'll read Craig's List and glean an overall sense of what life is like there". Or "Honey, let's take a trip to SF next week. Why don't you check Craig's List to get a sense if that's really a place we would enjoy visiting." And who has hired this "company"? The city council, board of supervisors or mayor? This is another case of Digg being used to spread an invented non-issue. An Info-virus.
  • dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"Color me suspicious."

    You and me both, child. I just googled Tomkins and Scott and found nothing (except this post). One might attribute this to the fact that the company is "underground" because it does "black PR," but the wording of this post is very strange. It really sounds like a 12 year old trying to sound like a 30 year old.

    Anyone else know if there's a way that we can check if this company even exists?
  • mikemac, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Very interesting. Exactly why is this guy coming forward after three years of loyal, full-time censorship duties? I don't know how large this Tomkins & Scott company is (or even if they exist), but I suspect they could easily find out who he is from all this information. This guy's probably already breaking some major nondisclosure agreement by posting about it, so let's see some official memos on letterheads detailing the plan or his job description.
    I don't know about the rest of Diggers, but I don't like to go off half-cocked.
    Dugg nonetheless for a cool conspiracy theory. Also marked as possibly inaccurate. Let's see some proof.
  • jknight, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Not sure if I am buying this. Didn't CraigsList originate in SF? What do they mean by derogatory to the City? There is plenty in the news that I think is derogatory to the city IMO. Wouldn't they have to 'delete' everything from TV too? I am betting all the Homosexual Marriages @ city hall didn't play well with most of the country.

    I also have a hard time believing that millions of dollars this person describes are really being spent on activities like this. If this has been going on for years as the author says, wouldn't there be other people to corroborate his story?

    I am paranoid for the most part, but not this paranoid.....

    I have an open mind enough (barely) to wait and see if anyone else comes forward on this subject to confirm his story. Wait and see I guess
  • StarDal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@hawkmucci : I have received an email when I had a post flagged out once.
  • mattryan50, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Eh...i dunno if I believe this guy...if he really feels guilty and wants to fess up then he needs to name names of who hired him.
  • MrShoop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Let's start posting negative crap about SF on Craigslist and see if it get flagged.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3tinfoil hat

    is it reasonable to assume that this could be a ploy by one of the local newspapers who have been losing AD revenue to craigslist to discredit the integrity of the CL community?
    I remember reading some months ago that newspapers were ***** their pants because so many people stopped advirtising in newspapers (for ridiculous amounts) and started posting on CL for free. Of course newspapers weren't all too happy about this. Maybe some of them decided to do something about it


    /tinfoil hat
  • Paktu, on 10/12/2007, -14/+16@rockefeller

    I am guessing your post was intended to be funny (ha ha) but I do want to use this opportunity to point out that Al Gore never claimed to have "invented" the Internet. His statements were taken entirely out of context, and from a policy perspective, he was instrumental (and fought against Republican opposition) in providing federal support for the Internet in its early days.

    Read this for more info:
    http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
  • hawkmucci, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think craig's list could benefit from having some type of functionality to revive a post, not necessarily as fancy as a wiki's history feature, but something to recover. I know people can just repost, but i don't believe they get a notice if their post gets taken down. I know people who will flag things they see for sale and ask their friends to do so too so that they can monopolize communication. Is that fair?
  • buba69, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3must have gotten fired or is about to get fired...only reason why he is going to out his own company.
  • strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10I was wondering how long it would take a story criticizing the center of american leftism tp featire a snide anti-semetic remark. And now there it is. Those who are supporting Israel are subhuman "gremlins".

    Amazing.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Like any time an anti-Chinese government story is posted on Slashdot, the pro-Chinese black PR go into overdrive to say such good things about China and their oppressive government. Did I say oppressive? I meant happy and fun filled place with a puppy in every pot, and uncensored internet access!
  • DoctaStooge, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3FTA: "I have decided to come out and tell the public about what my company is doing because I believe it is unethical and wrong."

    If he felt this was wrong, why didn't he say something sooner or not work for them at all?
  • UnixSkunk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is pretty easy to check this for ourselves. Post a remark likely to be flagged on Craig's List, then wait to see if it gets yanked.
  • Pile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The city of New Orleans could sure use this service... their version of craigslist is overrun by redneck racists who post offensive crap every single day, and CL does nothing about it.
  • sparkles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hey, no problem, HipOldGuy. It was a perfectly reasonable assumption to make. Craigslist's moderation system just works a lot differently than most others, and you can't be expected to know that unless you spend an inordinate amount of time flagging spam on the site.

    I reckon it's pretty much established that this case is a hoax, but I will personally eat my own head if this sort of thing doesn't happen with some regularity, on some scale. I've worked closely enough with sleazy marketing types that I know that there is just about nothing some people won't stoop to to silence detractors, destroy competitors, and sway public opinion. We've all seen some of the sleazy guerilla marketing campaigns that have been unleashed into the wild.

    That said, Craigslist is robust enough to route around this kind of thing even if it does happen, and as long as people are aware of the type of tactics sleazy marketers are using on the internet, I think we can use community moderation models to our benefit.
  • digitaldater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You mean I can get paid to do what I do every day on Craigslist? That is just unethical that I am not making a living by flagging.

    Peopld don't realize the underbelly of marketing and CL is one of the best places to get your ideas across and they don't even look like advertising or mind control.

    Black PR happens here too. A trained eye can spot it immediately.
  • HipOldGuy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Freedom of Speech" protects you from the Government censoring you it has nothing to do with private companies, websites, or even if you choose to say things I don't like in my house.

    Also, how do they 'delete' a post by another on Craig's list? It is like deleting a post here on Digg, you can't. The only people who can are Mods and Admin, individual users can only delete their own...to the best of my knowledge.

    I know of people who do similar on Stock Market boards, but they do not 'delete' posts they just try and either bury them ( - diggs anyone? ) or refute the post and resort to name calling etc. They also post more positive things about the 'issue' to bury it.

    My 2 cents.
  • sparkles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Craigslist is community edited, so posts are deleted after a certain number of flags. And any given user can flag a post as many times as they have the patience for.

    So it's not impossible or even implausible on those grounds.
  • dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This sounds completely plausable.

    Craiglist lets people flag messages, and if a given message is flagged enough times, it's automatically removed, and I don't think there's any sort of review process.

    I suspect that the flagging system removes multiple flags from the same IP address, but that would be simple to overcome if you had a bank of systems with different IP addresses to (ab)use. You might even be able to spoof connections to do it from random IP addresses.

    You know how the crackers sometimes have thousands of zombies under their control? I'll bet 100 would be more than enough to get any craigslist post removed almost immediately. You just work out the URL to hit to get a given post removed, and have each zombie hit it ... wham, post removed.

    If this is abused too much, I imagine Craiglist will add a captcha or some other way of preventing/reducing this sort of abuse, but for now, such defenses are not in place.

    I'm not saying that the story is true (I've no idea), but somebody certainly could offer these services very easily.
  • rabidg00se, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@strictnein

    As a Jewish American, I don't see riverside's comment as antisemitic. I, personally, can't support Israel in their current actions, and have yet to meet anyone who does amongst my Israeli-descended friends.
  • rabidg00se, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hah. No, I was just pointing out that I'm not a Jewish Israeli. Although I suppose being Israeli might imply Judaism....
  • Moskie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Maybe San Francisco has really short blocks. Ever consider that? huh?
  • videozine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I did a quick Google search for "Tomkins and Scott LLC" - there were no references other than another article in the SF Tribe. This is a scam/hoax.
  • dtracz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Controlling info with spin is one of the most important functions of political organizations. I have no doubt that this is true although multi-million dollar budgets to control craigslist postings seems nuts to me.
  • drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2mmcmonster is exactly right, how does someone wait THREE years before they think this might be unethical. He had to interview for the job, what did they tell him they did? Oh we just send people out around the city to sway people into believing things they don't. Sounds like the job for me!

    Ok so maybe its real or maybe its fake but if its real then this guy is just as guilty as the city because he took part in actively knowing what they were doing for years. If hes said nothing for three years then how can you take what he says to be true now anyways.
  • noGoodNamesLeft, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Links please.
  • HipOldGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Thank you for that insight. :-)

    On a side note "Craig'" was interviewed on the BBC World Service radio program 'The Interview" the other week. Interesting to hear his story. He seemed to be a hard guy to interview because he is a man of few words.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/the_interview.shtml

    Unfortunately it seems to not be available for streaming at the moment.

    Thank you again for your even handed correction/information. Nice to see a friendly comment instead of the usual 'how stupid' type comment here on Digg.
  • cnewmark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0regarding BBC interview: "Brevity is the soul of wit".
  • Fetching more discussions...
    Show 51 - 85 of 85 discussions

  • Add a Comment

    Login or register to comment!
    Or, sign-in super fast with your Facebook account ...

© Digg Inc. 2009 — Content created and posted by Digg users is dedicated to the public domain | Terms of Use Updated | Privacy Policy
DIGG, DIGG IT, DUGG, DIGG THIS, Digg graphics, logos, designs, page headers, button icons, scripts, and other service names are the trademarks of Digg Inc.