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Older people 'missing out' online

news.bbc.co.uk — The research also found that more than half of all people over 65 voluntarily excluded themselves from internet access because they see no benefit to the net. However, more than two thirds of pensioners who are currently not connected said they would get online if they had the right support.

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  • PJBonoVox, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3If half of them voluntarily opted out, how can two thirds say they want to be connected but with the right support?

    2/3 > 50%
    • afex, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5quite easily, actually. you see, its possible to have more than one feeling or thought at the same time. for some old folks, they voluntarily opt out BUT would be connected if they had support.
    • PJBonoVox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1...but if they see no benefit to the net, why would they want it?
  • KrocCamen, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7But at the same time, can you imagine how daunting it would be to know nothing about computers, and then have to a) purchase one when you live on £60 a week, b) get an Internet connection when the ISPs here want to rope you into very complicated package plans for phone+TV+Internet which are confusing and beyond the price range of pensioners.

    And then you have Windows to deal with. I can easily understand why the elderly are missing out when companies and software and the web are so hostile. What the goverment need is cheap subsidised /second hand Mac Minis or Linux boxes and special basic speed, very cheap Internet wihthout all the bolt ons.
    • Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4Cut the crap jackarse, pensioners can't afford the Mac and they don't want to use Linux.
    • bgoodknight, on 10/12/2007, -8/+0pull your head out of your ass, weirdo
    • KrocCamen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Learn to read - notice the word 'subsidised'. Also, care to backup your statement that pensioners that have never used a computer, don't want to use Linux? You're the one needing to pull your head out of somewhere if you have that much bias against Macs and Linux, both of which suffer with no widespread viruses, torjans and keyloggers that pensioners have little protection against.
    • JakeMcMahon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Windows + Old people = easy
    • MrKite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2My mom is 65 years old and she knows her way around windows and the Internet like any 20 year old. I've been giving her my pc's for years (every time I buy a new one) and she uses it all day long. She plays pc games, sends emails to her grandchildren, shops on Amazon and eBay, researches healthecare options, etc, etc. She has even created her own website for the family.

      So don't underestimate the computing skills of a retiree.
  • KippyRules, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5They are two different statistics. 50% of people over 65... and then 2/3 of the people over 65 who *aren't* connected already.
  • emalyse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I've tried teaching the over 65's general computer useage & it can be very hard for many. Quite a lot for them is just not intuitive & that applies to any OS you put in front of them. This has more to do with the poor design of OS's in general & the lack of consistency between applications than a lack of desire in the older age group to become engaged.A lot of existing evening courses aimed at this age group fail to solve the problem & are still bogged down in teaching way too much of Office rather than using the computer to get information & basic communications, let alone how to take sensible security precautions.
    • Chyeburashka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Teaching my 86 year old father to use a mouse was much more difficult than teaching my daughter when she was three. But he eventually got the hang of it. Making the mouse pointer extra LARGE really helped. He still prefers to read a newspaper to a web browser, but likes the depth and breadth of wikipedia. His favorite app is Google Earth. And he's not bothered by how slow that runs on his G4 Mac-mini. He's had time to learn patience.
    • ElectroBot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's why Macs are great (especially for older people) because of the consistent and easy to use user interface. And the fact that there aren't that many games for Macs doesn't matter to most older people.
  • JakeMcMahon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Thank god there's no older people on digg. It'd be all "I thought AJAX was that cleaning liquid"
  • m0tbaillie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Not to sound like a stereotyping *****, but it's hard enough to teach your average average 35-year old adult basic computing skills - many people just don't "get it" - a perfect example would likely be most of our parents (let's suppose we're talking about the most current generation here).

    Quite frankly, I have to agree with KrocCamen... Computing and the Internet is already quite daunting for many people as it is, imagine how daunting and confusing it would potentially be to people that are 65+ that have never had any exposure to it whatsoever.
  • PowerCow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have taught a few older people comps.. some love it.
    After quick email.. tell them about web cams to see the grand babies
    find out there favorite hobby or subject, show how the internet can improve that hobby.
    most quickly get addicted to the information that interests them.
    I had one guy i was totlly proud of, man so old looked like he died a few years back but hadnt noticed yet, one year after a quick lesson he was pretty much a geek.OK maybe not a full blown geek but far beyond my father who has used computers for years and still has trouble with the basics.
  • AnGryTreE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have to disagree about seniors and PCs/web. In fact, I offer this article as a different perspective on this issue:
    http://www.pcworld.ca/Pages/NewsColumn.aspx?id=d91871c20a0104080036ef216ee205ba
    • DA5lD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I'm 59 and consider myself as computer-literate as my 22-year-old son, who is no slouch. As we become older, some people give in to the temptation to "give up" --- to sit back on their "laurels" and don't bother with learning new skills. IMHO, the moment of that decision (conscious or not) is when death really begins.
    • cadavreexquis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My dad is 60 and springs on every new technology that comes along. Back when the Google toolbar first came out, he had it before I did. When Firefox first became popular, we started using it at the same time. Since we live 5000 miles apart he's also figured out how to use PC-to-PC calling, he's set up a webcam, etc. He checks his stocks and watches all his World Cup matches online.

      There are two reasons this makes me very happy:
      a) I know he'll never information-deprived due to lack of internet savvy and
      b) Keeping up with the latest technology keeps his brain happy and active. Which means that when he's 85 he will hopefully have kept dementia at bay.

  • cybermort, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1I may sound like an ass but I think the online community is better off without them
    • KrocCamen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Yep, you're an ass. It's like saying - "I don't mean to be thankless, but I think I'd be better off without my parents". You do realise that thanks to 'old people' we have the Internet to be better off with in the first place. The internet was certainly not invented by teenagers as much as you may believe that.
    • john570, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Not only do you sound like an ass........
    • cybermort, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1this is large group of computer illiterate people. Irresponsible internet users of any age are a burden to cyberspace (i.g. their negligence facilitates the propagation worms and viruses) I think resources would be better spent making sure future generations grow up to be responsible users capable of taking full advantage of the internet.
  • aclelland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think there is a big shift towards helping elderly people use technology, not just the Internet, in their day to day lives.

    The computing department in the University of Dundee has sessions for elderly people where they can learn how to shop on line or buy home contents insurance. There are also groups who will go out to an elderly persons house and set up the computer with customized software for them (Firefox and Thunderbird with different themes) depending of their ability.

    More information @ http://www.computing.dundee.ac.uk/usercentre/
  • jjtechno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Didn't I read on Digg somewhere, that Asia Linux for the senior citizen was exploding exponentially? Seniors are just as capable as anyone else of learning computer skills. Any new skill has a steep curve at first. All the hype is just that, hype! Not everyone wants to devote time to learning difficult subjects when sunset is fast approaching.
  • uptown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Just what we need ... an increase in the community of people unable to perceive whether that million dollar prize email is legit or not ... and a lifetime's of savings to give away.
  • billisdog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7The day all those seniors get online will be a very profitable day for Nigeria.
  • billisdog, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Hahaha also it would be hilarious to see some seniors get up on Digg. You'd have articles about Sunday coupons making it to the front page, we'd see comments like "+digg for pension reform" or "i love my grandkids. no digg."
    • dave9999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"When I was your age we didn't need no Internet, we talked to each other and we liked it. Nobody corrected my spelling when I talked cus we didn't care. People used to be happy to hear me repeat the same story over and over again. What's a dupe?"
    • mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Digg headlines would look like this:

      "Top 10 Devices for Keeping Kids off Lawn"
      "New denture adhesive RELEASED!! (WITH PICS!!!!!!)"
      "MacBook speaker volume lower than expected"
      "The Most Amazing Wheelchair You Will Ever See!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
      "Google doesn't respect seniors"
      "The Pirate what now?"
      "Does MySpace cause cataracts?"
      "Incontinence may break your interweb machine computer"
      "Top 10 GILFs on LavaLife!"
    • ElectroBot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm 24 and I agree with 2 of those:

      "MacBook speaker volume lower than expected" (my hearing is better than average, but computer speakers are crap, and iBook G4 and MacBook speakers are even quieter than most PC laptop speakers.)
      "Does MySpace cause cataracts?" (What is it with people and try to disgust/repel others with color schemes and page layout?)
  • Hydraulix, on 10/12/2007, -16/+0***** 'em.
    • cadavreexquis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Guess what, genius - you too will be old one day!
  • m0tbaillie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Here is the quintessential example of why we don't need any more seniors "being sent Internets":

    http://blog.wired.com/27BStroke6/?entry_id=1512499

    Senator Ted Stevens (R - AK) explains how the Internet works:

    "There's one company now you can sign up and you can get a movie delivered to your house daily by delivery service. Okay. And currently it comes to your house, it gets put in the mail box when you get home and you change your order but you pay for that, right.

    But this service isn't going to go through the interent and what you do is you just go to a place on the internet and you order your movie and guess what you can order ten of them delivered to you and the delivery charge is free.

    Ten of them streaming across that internet and what happens to your own personal internet?

    I just the other day got, an internet was sent by my staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday and I just got it yesterday. Why?

    Because it got tangled up with all these things going on the internet commercially.

    So you want to talk about the consumer? Let's talk about you and me. We use this internet to communicate and we aren't using it for commercial purposes.

    We aren't earning anything by going on that internet. Now I'm not saying you have to or you want to discrimnate against those people [...]

    The regulatory approach is wrong. Your approach is regulatory in the sense that it says "No one can charge anyone for massively invading this world of the internet". No, I'm not finished. I want people to understand my position, I'm not going to take a lot of time. [?]

    They want to deliver vast amounts of information over the internet. And again, the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck.

    It's a series of tubes.

    And if you don't understand those tubes can be filled and if they are filled, when you put your message in, it gets in line and its going to be delayed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of material, enormous amounts of material.

    Now we have a separate Department of Defense internet now, did you know that?

    Do you know why?

    Because they have to have theirs delivered immediately. They can't afford getting delayed by other people.

    [...]

    Now I think these people are arguing whether they should be able to dump all that stuff on the internet ought to consider if they should develop a system themselves.

    Maybe there is a place for a commercial net but it's not using what consumers use every day.

    It's not using the messaging service that is essential to small businesses, to our operation of families.

    The whole concept is that we should not go into this until someone shows that there is something that has been done that really is a viloation of net neutraility that hits you and me."
  • Wolfboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2A few years ago my state government started a program for senior citizens. The initial publicity in the local newspaper listed a web site, but no phone number, for the seniors to sign up or get more information.

    The seniors called the newspaper and complained... many, maybe most, did not own computers so could not go online to sign up.
    • tonyjack63, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1leave it to gov't. to get involved and they'll not only screw it up for seniors, but they'll screw it up for everyone else.
    • alanmarchman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Sounds just like when I worked for Gateway in one of their retail stores, and they pushed us to sell 'online training' to seniors as a convenience item. 'Look, you can learn about your new PC and the Interweb without leaving your house!'

      So try to explain to a Senior Citizen how they can learn how to use the Internet on the Internet when they have never used the Internet before in their life!

      That's why Gateway doesn't have retail stores anymore. That, and the fact that their PCs are now outsourced POSs built in Mexico.
  • rtphokie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Even those who claim to have an interest in getting a little internet savvy see it as a huge hurdle for them. Why? I blame all those who have talk about "learning the internet" and offer classes on it. It isn't that hard, even for the oldest among us. As long as we treat it like something that's difficult, it will be perceived that way.

    Did grampa need classes to navigate his new TV when he bought it? No. Did he have a techer the first time he cracked open an encyclopedia, perhaps once but that's it. Then why does he need help to navigate a Google search?

    It's a mental block. He's been convinced that the internet and all it's resources are not for him therefor it's out of his reach. Well meaning people who are concerned about seniors getting duped by spam or other online financial predators forget that Grampa has lived through a lot more than them and might just be capable of spotting B.S., all he needs is someone to point out that the "online world" is just as corrupt, actually not more, than the real world.
    • tonyjack63, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1good point! I talk to a lot of elderly people who would like to eBay, however, they fear online bogeymen that will rob them blindly. It certainly can be intimidating when they see the ads on television regarding identity theft, hear about phishing scams, and get the latest 20/20 Myspace pervert report. To them its like going down a back alley in the inner city.
  • james155, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Just to let you know some of us old farts are out there and digging it. I am 63, had my first Apple II in 1978 and was writing programs for it in basic when most of you were still programing ***** diapers.
    • AnGryTreE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Well said James...we are standing on the shoulders of giants. Who do they think built the technology all this is based on?
    • geekgranny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The young always think they invented everything worth knowing about. What really frosts my cookies is going into a big chain computer shop, and being ignored by all those young lads (and they're always lads) - becuase it's obvious to them that a little old lady must be in there buying a gift card for the grandkid, not to spend mucho $$ on a new box. I was coding when they only thing they could compile was a pile in their Pampers. Maybe some seniors get tired of being talked down to or brushed off when they walk into the big stores - it's hard to keep up your enthusiasm for trying new things when some little punk in a logo'd golf shirt is looking down their nose at you or staring into space whilst toying with his nipple piercing. Nowadays, I buy online or at my small local shop - at least there, I get treated like a real customer and not a 'tarded old relic.
    • concept10, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The difference between the kids today and in my time ?

      2006: Complain about someone submitting an article (that you didnt write) about some half-reported tech story on a page full of ads.. "I was frist!" heh

      1986: Challenge of my time was 1. getting a commercial game 2. removing protection and 3. distribution throught the 0 day channels on a 300 baud modem... or writing demos in assembly.

      Kids today slap together some php, html/css and they think they own the world. Gimme a break.
  • nhprimary, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'll be 56 this week. Got my Apple II+ in 1980 for my 30th birthday. Spent 32 years in I/T. Happy digging to you too.
  • EricG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I got a thrown away 400mhz iMac for free that no one wanted and rebuilt it for my parents who have never used a computer or the Internet and they are both in their 70's .. 400mhz may not be fast enough for playing top of the line games and video editing, etc.., but I can't see my parents ever doing that, all they needed was a machine fast enough to browse the web and send emails and perhaps NeoOffice and a couple "light" games.. This "junk" iMac is more than perfect.. I also couldn't see setting them up with Windows and trying to explain the concepts of viruses, spyware and other ills to them, they simply wouldn't get it.. so the iMac for them was perfect.. while it was initially challenging for them at first they are progressing fine, as I said, they never used a computer before.. I found setting them up for remote desktop access helps a great deal when the have a problem or need something "put back" I can just log in and fix it and their are back and running.. with time they can learn.. My mom is very happy to have the computer now and she says she had never thought much about the Internet (much as the article states) now she says she doesn't know how she got along without it, When researching this project I found there is very little information out there with helping "senior" newbies get started.. and that's a pity that many of them will miss out as they do have a lot to contribute that other could benefit from (as well as get help with issues they are dealing with).. Honestly, it just takes patience and some effort on your part.. look at it this way .. its payback for all the soiled diapers they changed for you when you were an infant.. I think its a fair exchange..
  • Voltagensis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Old people and young people are the same. Some are smart and receptive, some are not. We have these 80, 90-something professor types and then we have the average person, which you can't expect much out of considering the time period that they came from.

    It's all about the person, his attitude, and prior education. Not about his age. And don't forget that some of these old timers built the foundations of computing for our use in the 21st century.
  • JoeyDeacon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is a crime really that so many should miss out on so much porn.
  • psiit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I though that people who are now old are the ones who invented computers?
  • thenativeraver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Have you tried turning it off and on again?"
  • deadjoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My grandmother fears the Internet because she is afraid that she will catch viruses--REAL viruses like the flu and the common cold. I gave up on explaining the differences to her. This is no joke.
  • Genghis1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Young people missing out on "life"
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