What is Digg?199 Comments
- DarkNemesis618, on 12/12/2007, -14/+124Sigh...when will people realize that DRM is evil? Ogg presented the perfect standard format as it is not proprietary. This blows...
- Super6, on 12/12/2007, -10/+80Where's your beloved Steve Jobs and his "I don't really like DRM" stance now, apple fans?
Couldn't resist. - basic0, on 12/12/2007, -3/+63It seems to me that ogg met all the requirements, what sensible reason is there for it's exclusion? Does Nokia or Apple have a better, free-as-in-speech and -beer, open-source media format they're not telling anyone about?
The whole point in using an open-source, non-proprietary media format in HTML5 was so that there would be no vendor-specific junk and little to no corporate influence, in keeping with the spirit of most other internet standards and protocols. It's frightening to hear that the development process of the HTML5 has already caved to corporate influence. - DEFSMAC, on 12/12/2007, -17/+66microsoft didn't try to suppress it.
/waits for apple fan boys to dig him down. - WiseWeasel, on 12/12/2007, -4/+45What does Ogg Vorbis have to do with DRM? You can wrap Ogg files in DRM, just as you can have other formats without DRM...
- badenglishihave, on 12/12/2007, -2/+39I know that I personally hate free, unrestrictive and high quality media. Good decision guys!
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go listen to 128kbps "CD Quality" MP3s on my iPod. - clickwir, on 12/12/2007, -6/+40Personally, I would like to just say ***** You Apple and right behind that I'd like to extend a ***** You Nokia. You have no say in such matters. go back to your holes.
- nicku, on 12/12/2007, -4/+31Yeah no kidding. There is no openness to Apple, its all about vendor lock down from the hardware all the way out. I'm not surprised.
- t3st3r, on 12/12/2007, -3/+29DRM is as cool as jail.You have to pay to be able to ... loose your legal rights.What an idiocy! And who is loser?Average Joe who wants to obey laws.Pirates do not suffer from DRM at all: pirated content simply does not has DRM sh*t inside.So, pirated content is not just free in terms of moneys.It also does not restricts your rights and does not invades to your privacy.It just works.IMHO it is shame that pirated content is better than original one.This shows how far abuse of monopoly power can go.
- ptFoe, on 12/12/2007, -5/+28Apple suck and their hopeless movie player: Quicktime
- atrus123, on 12/12/2007, -1/+24Very disappointing. This came out right when I was planning on buying a N95. I guess I'm not buying one now.
- santasing, on 12/12/2007, -5/+25Lately, Apple has been making me real mad. I used to be a big time Apple fan, now, not so much.
- lengau, on 12/12/2007, -3/+22Correct, but the reason they didn't like it was that Ogg has not built-in measure to add DRM (although realistically all that's needed is to encrypt the Theora/vorbis streams...
- inactive, on 12/12/2007, -4/+21Uh, the article mentions Microsoft too. Do you actually read the articles before you digg it?
- tehbizz, on 12/12/2007, -4/+20I think people en masse not using OGG killed OGG's future support.
- daliminator, on 12/12/2007, -4/+20*****, Apple. You've gone and done things all back-asswards again.
- buckrogers1965, on 12/12/2007, -1/+16Fair use, first sale doctrine, right to play on any equipment we own. You know, basic human rights to ownership of their own stuff.
- t3st3r, on 12/12/2007, -3/+16Nokia are most strange morons I'd ever seen.On one side they're developing open solutions like Nokia 770, n800, n810 which do not suffer from DRM crap at all.From another side they're f....ng up open initiatives.What's next, Nokia?
As a customer I'm dissatisfied with such moves.I'm surely need DRM in my device not more than couple bullets in my head and a$$.Because "innocent unless proven guilty" principle.I'm not willing to allow someone assume me guilty "by default" for my own moneys I have paid for device and content.That's f...ks me too much. - lengau, on 12/12/2007, -2/+14If mplayer on an N800 (ironically, made my Nokia) can play 480p theora at 24fps, I see no reason why that should be a problem. That and the fact that there are several Vorbis playing chips already available as well as a Theora-playing one in the works.
- DavidCriswell, on 12/12/2007, -0/+12@gianpo
How do you figure?
From Theroa.org:
Theora comes without licensing fees. Neither commercial nor private use will make you owe money to us. The Theora specification is in the public domain, its reference implementation is open source and subject to a license which permits inclusion in proprietary commercial products. On2, which owns patents that apply to the technical foundations of Theora, granted an unrevocable free license regarding those patents.
Seems non-proprietary to me. - bigmammoth, on 12/12/2007, -1/+13choice.. right... if people had a choice they would chose free reusable *won't get sued for editing it and posting it on my blog* formats but the proprietary codec providers can leverage their browsers and operating systems and have influence in ways that joe open source can't. Not to mention the discrepancy of resources 100s of millions vs a small zero employ open source foundation (xiph.org) These costs are hidden from the blogger... h.264 for example is doing close to zero enforcement until 2010 .. once they get into the web fabric then expect to pay the piper... our best bet is to use and promote theora however we can~
- xike, on 12/12/2007, -0/+12Fail
- luet, on 12/12/2007, -5/+17They may have beaten OGG. BUT THEY WILL NEVER BEAT FLAC.
- zdiggler, on 12/12/2007, -3/+14FLAC files take up huge amount of bandwidth. Good for archive but probably not ideal for html5
- ShrimpCrackers, on 12/12/2007, -0/+11Agreed, the fact that my old mobile devices that are over 4-5 years old can play theora and ogg shows that Nokia or Apple is probably making excuses. We should be running forward instead of letting these companies use any excuse to pull us back and milk us on old old technology.
This is why in Japan I'm watching TV news in the subway along with a bunch of other people while in America only Verizon has TV for extraneous prices and only in certain locations! In Taiwan I get 3.5G speeds that totally trump anything we have in the USA by far (they're still rolling it out in America while Taiwan is already rolling out "4G" tech), while in America I'm stuck with 3G in cities and 2G in rural areas on top of having to pay for tethering costs. This is why my friends in Korea get super-fast Fiber Optic for $25 a month while I pay $79 to get a third of their download and less than a twentieth of their upload speeds.
We let corporations step all over us using stupid excuses and we lose. The fact is, New York City is more dense than most cities in the world yet most people in New York City are living with 5mbps/256kbps. The fact is there is tons of dark fiber in America that is not being utilized because its easy to charge us and "Comcastic" us to death. The facts are that America is behind when it comes to cellphone tech and other mobile devices that its a joke amongst Asian people at the "bricks" that we carry. Why should it be this way? Shouldn't America be showing what the future looks like instead of being Japan 2002? - tehkain, on 12/12/2007, -0/+10I also want to mention that the format was licensed under the BSD license. This would have been great since it is one of the most straight forward licenses and no one would have any fear that _some_(lame) companies have with various Copyleft licenses(in other words less/no lawyers).
- adooga, on 12/12/2007, -0/+10If superman read, then superman would know.
- ShrimpCrackers, on 12/12/2007, -1/+11Yeah no one uses Ogg, except a third of the games out there. You work for Nokia or Apple?
Whats with all this crap about how Ogg uses so much processing power unavailable on portable devices? My 5 year old PDA can play Ogg, as does my 4 year old MP3 player, as does my old old service-less Windows Mobile 3 phone. I don't see how cellphones nowadays can't support it. This is just junk to convince people from the truth/ - decet, on 12/12/2007, -0/+10All is not lost. The Firefox position paper ( http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Mozilla. ... ) explicitly states that the mozilla group is committed to supporting ogg formats in their browsers. With their market share this statement carries some weight. However, it's true that if ogg is not supported by consumers, it will die. So everyone who uses Quicktime ought to install the xiph plug-in which can be found at http://xiph.org/quicktime/
- buckrogers1965, on 12/12/2007, -0/+10How long is a string?
- supermanred, on 12/12/2007, -0/+9They called and said to tell NamelessCoward to go suck himself.
Nothing personal, Im just passing on what they had to say.
;) - adooga, on 12/12/2007, -0/+9What's ridiculous about having a file type that has to be supported by all browsers?
It wouldn't prevent any manufacturer from supporting any other types, and it wouldn't prevent any plug-ins being used, it would simply provide one backstop last-defense format that would be guaranteed to work no matter what. - gwhardyiv, on 12/12/2007, -3/+12So the submitter carefully removes Microsoft from the list of companies teaming up against ogg, as mentioned in the article, and all of a sudden, it's an Apple bashing forum. RTFA.
- timdorr, on 12/12/2007, -1/+10Ogg isn't the problem, Theora is. It's On2's old VP3 codec that was given to Xiph.org after it was a failure. This was to make On2 look like good guys to the FOSS community while they worked on improved codecs (they're on VP7 now, btw). It's a nice gesture, but only after they've exhausted all use of the codec. It's roughly equivalent to H.261 (aka, MPEG-1). For a standard that's supposed to be forward-looking, they're certainly looking at one old codec...
VP6 is included included in almost all current versions of Flash out there. H.264 support has been added, and by the time HTML5 gets finalized, it should be just as pervasive. Let's let Adobe field the licensing fees for us. And why is the HTML5 standard trying to settle on one video codec anyways? They are constantly changing, whereas the HTML spec generally moves *much* slower. I think a free market should decide what codec works best for everyone, rather than having some standards body try to force everyone to use something *****. No one uses Real anymore for good reason. It's been superceded by more pervasive playback support in Flash, QT, and Windows Media. - buckrogers1965, on 12/12/2007, -3/+11Well, I was planning on buying one of the Nokia N810's, but not now.
- HappyScrappy, on 12/12/2007, -5/+13It's amazing the level of misunderstanding on here. People are idiots.
- buckrogers1965, on 12/12/2007, -7/+15Quicktime is not a standard. It is just a proprietary format.
Yeah, every other company in the world tries to own their own proprietary formats too. And they are all wrong. - spyseetuna, on 12/12/2007, -0/+7Look it up. Free Lossless Audio Codec.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flac - m3mn0n, on 12/12/2007, -0/+7Yeah. Could you imagine having to warn people about downloading a plugin to support GIF or JPEG usage? Or not having an IMG tag to simply add them? This is the exact same thing, but we're talking audio and video.
I'm sick and tired of seeing all the "flash required" warnings all over the place, but that's become the de facto web video standard. I'd rather see a default one used and then they can script a switch to flash, WM, quicktime, real or whatever if they want to push another format or use it for whatever extra/specific features. - hcjake, on 12/12/2007, -0/+7i don't use linux on my laptop, but i have ogg files on it. so i guess its not a linux thing
- lengau, on 12/12/2007, -0/+7@WiseWeasel - that's the hardware that I'm talking about - that way they'll be able to use just that chip for Theora decoding on something even as small as a cell phone.
- Cimlite, on 12/12/2007, -3/+10I for one is thankful that the submitter removed Microsoft from the title.
The amount of Mac loving usually going on att Digg... well, this is a breath of fresh air. People need to wake up and see that Apple is just as bad as Microsoft nowadays. It does not matter if it's iTunes or whatever, they are trying to box you in so that you have to use their products and formats.
People get angry when Microsoft or Sony does it... but Apple has successfully marketed themselfs as "the good guys", people seem to buy into that a little too much. - inactive, on 12/12/2007, -1/+8I don't see anything in this article that gives evidence that Apple and Nokia tried to kill Ogg. I just read a lot of rhetoric. Could someone link me to a good source for this assertion?
- adooga, on 12/12/2007, -0/+6@supermanred:
Nah, FLAC is really sweet, it's lossless, meaning if you start with a .wav or cd audio and compress it to a FLAC, you can decompress it back to it's original form with no change at all to the file. A bit like a .zip but you don't have to extract it to use it.
So it's a good way to store audio that you want to keep intact, and it can also be played in compressed form in some players, but the trade-off is that while being much smaller than the original .wav file it is much bigger than .mp3.
So as zdiggler said, not so efficient for transporting via the net. - technoredneck, on 12/12/2007, -0/+6"What's locked down about that?"
What's the reason I would have to be bothered to do that to start with? Oh, right, it's locked down.
God, you are the worst fanboy ever (or best, depending on how you look at it). - darkamster07, on 12/12/2007, -1/+7mp3 sucks ass
- andycr512, on 12/12/2007, -0/+6There are a few logical fallacies there. Let me help you find them:
OGG has nothing directly to do with Linux.
MP3 has nothing to do with capitalism.
Linux has nothing to do with communism.
MP3 isn't just a codec, but also a container.
Any questions? - clickmyface, on 12/12/2007, -7/+13Two things: Yes, QuickTime is free and has been for years. Second, full screen has been included in that free player for about 6 months. Thanks for playing tho?
- daliminator, on 12/12/2007, -0/+6Goddammit. Everyone please report this piece of ***** spammer to Digg. Pretty sure it's the same person as "tomasorhan" (http://digg.com/users/tomasorhan) - every single f'ing comment is the same crap about "pubspa."
- Hacktivist, on 12/12/2007, -0/+6The underlined text are edits. It probably didn't say Microsoft when the story was submitted.
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