What is Digg?263 Comments
- gwjc, on 10/12/2007, -8/+96Good read; but they totally forgot about the fact that America has Chuck Norris.
- szelij, on 10/12/2007, -9/+58It's a good article. Here's an interesting and very real quotes:
"Intel's Andy Grove is more blunt. "America ... [is going] down the tubes," he says, "and the worst part is nobody knows it. They're all in denial, patting themselves on the back, as the Titanic heads for the iceberg full speed ahead.""
"The national academies' report points out that China and India combined graduate 950,000 engineers every year, compared with 70,000 in America; that for the cost of one chemist or engineer in the U.S. a company could hire five chemists in China or 11 engineers in India; that of the 120 $1 billion-plus chemical plants being built around the world one is in the United States and 50 are in China."
"The great competitive problems that the American economy faces would require strong and sometimes unpleasant medicine. Our entitlement programs are set to bankrupt the country, the health-care system is an expensive time bomb, our savings rate is zero, we are borrowing 80 percent of the world's savings and our national bill for litigation is now larger than for research and development."
It's all very interesting and quite real. I think it'd take ten years for the Chinese economy to increase internal demand and solve other problems in its system. In the next 25 years it's either make or break, China either addresses the discontent or it all erupts into revolution in the countryside. If it makes it, in 30 years it'd be a "young" superpower. Much like America in 1940's.
However in that 30 years, a lot of things could change in America. Borders could be closed and immigration stopped. That would choke the American economy. Asian banks may do what the Bank of Japan did earlier and dump it's bonds. For one thing, as the Asian behemoths rise, asian banks don't want to lose out and sooner or later they'll cause a massive economic problem in America. - strangeguitar, on 10/12/2007, -6/+45"Really though, does it matter we're on top? I mean everyone gets the technology eventually so why does it matter who invents it first?"
It matters if you can't afford to buy it because you are suddenly thrust into a lower middle-class by other countries who are reaping the monetary benefits of these new technologies.
"The one thing that we as Americans have is creativity and a society that thrives on it where as China and India have a rigid education structure that stifles creativity."
Creativity is an indulgence. An indulgence you may not be able to afford when you have to work 2 jobs just to feed your family. Americans aren't genetically predisposed to be creative. We just have an economy and government that allows us to relax enough to be able to be creative. Of course, that economy is based on borrowed money.
I don't have the answers, though. Just observations. - Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -9/+44You mention Rome. Funny, that.
Most people think Rome was felled by the invading Visigoths. That's not the whole story... the barbarians just landed the final, mortal wound. Rome had been in the process of collapse for a couple of centuries, the result of decadence, corruption, national ego, insufficient military numbers, and a failure of the government to serve the people rather than the aristocracy and the merchant classes.
The same has been happening in the US for at least 60 years. Life's pace is much faster now than 1600 years ago, and I predict that the US (and most of western civilization with it) will fall prey to modern barbarians in about 25 years.
History does repeat itself. - fyngyrz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+39I moved to Montana, bought a 60-year old, 4,600 sq ft building next to the local grocery store for 25 grand (cash, but financing could have been had) and have spent (so far) about 25k additional insulating like crazy and so forth. It's in the commercial district of the little town I live in so the taxes are "high" at $1500/yr. Other than that, I heat it, don't really have to cool it though it is more pleasant that way, live in it, feed myself and my sweetheart and my cats, and yes, I could compete with $10.00/hour at 40 hours/wk if I had to. It'd be something to be carefully managed, but the fact is, it can be done.
Sometimes, we just don't take advantage of the opportunities that are staring us in the face. Maybe you don't have to be where you are. Maybe you don't have to live like you think you do. Maybe you'd be a lot happier elsewhere.
Maybe not. But perhaps it's worth thinking about. Personally, I think our (American's) preconceptions about lifestyle hurt us more than any other factor I can think of. - jpwhitmore, on 10/12/2007, -17/+51It will probably take something disastrous to motivate the American people to change their actions. Nothing anyone does in the White house will cause Americans to start saving more or pursue careers in the sciences.
- bwd01, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36Interesting read, but nothing new. I think almost everyone who wants to know already knows that America has been slowly falling from power since the end of the cold war. It'll probably be a relatively gentle fall just like that of the United Kingdom (sans WW2). It doesn't mean that we will be plunged into the depth of poverty or anything. I think that globalization will allow a lot more people in a lot of other countries to share the same standard of living as America. Unlike other empires falling, I think America is falling in the sense that everybody else is catching up; more like a leveling of the playing field. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
- hwood, on 10/12/2007, -5/+37It's the frog in the pot syndrome.
The heat is on, everyone is enjoying the warmth.
In the very near future, the water will boil, by then it will be too late.
I develop software for a living and I can compete technically,but not financially.
I can't compete with $5.00-$10.00 an hour.
I don't know what to do. - BassCadet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26The people who should be reading that article are the same ones who can't be bothered to turn off American Idol long enough to educate themselves.
By the way, am I the only one who immediately comes to the conclusion that anyone with a Sports Medicine/Communications/Business/ degree is essentially only a few IQ points above a Chimp?
We need more Physics/English/Math/History/Engineer majors and less people who are in school solely for an anticipated financial reward. I picked my degree because of an academic interest, not because it fit the recruiting patterns of some local corporation. - jodokast, on 10/12/2007, -5/+28"The one thing that we as Americans have is creativity and a society that thrives on it where as China and India have a rigid education structure that stifles creativity."
Well, atleast they educate. - bennyboy371, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25We'll lead the word for a few more generations until the people who are so ***** pissed off at the way we're running the show now finally come into power. The ones that don't believe video games are evil, that our laws extend to everyone else, the ones that believe that there is a right way and wrong way to do things and judges are supposed to judge on the case itself and not whether or not the law technically says something.
This is a country that was based on principles, that was based on obtaining freedom from an oppressive government. Look what we've become. I find it sad, I'm genuinely fearful of what my future children may grow up living in. We are not the American empire, we are not the rulers of the world, and we are certainly not a monarchy. The ones in charge should be responsible for their crimes, for their injustices, just as everyone else in the country should be. There are those that are above the law and I find it pathetic. Our power is slipping, our greed is growing, our economy will slowly crumble. Capitalism itself depends on constant inflation, its only logical that it will fail someday. The stock market crash will be nothing compared to that. My only question is how long will this last. We ARE a time bomb. Innovation is falling to a complete halt. Whats to blame? Restrictive laws, lazy teachers, the social structure of high schools, and failing parents. We are in a country that does not show ANY respect to the ones who will run our country in the future. As a result, they become unruly, showing just as much respect in turn. While there are plenty who wish to do great things for our country... there are far worse people who gain power. Realistically, we're heading for collapse. - NOFXY, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24Don't forget that Jet Li was created along with Jackie Chan, by Chuck Norris, when he roundhouse kicked Bruce Lee and split him in two.
- Irimi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Instead of asking, 'When will we be surpassed?', why don't they write a story, 'This is how we can stay competitive...'?
- dimplemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17You are on the mark, bc. This country is too focused on the entertainment value (i.e. actors, athletes, musicians, dancers, etc). People in that industry get paid WAY MORE than teachers, scientists, engineers, etc. could ever see. They only focus on themselves and not the greater good of the country!
- Archimboldo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Several good insights.
"No worker from a rich country will ever be able to equal the energy and ambition of people making $5 a day and trying desperately to move out of poverty." It reminds me of the fall of Rome or other great civilizations. When the barbarians (in the original sense of the word, meaning "foreigners") were much more disciplined than the effete rulers of Rome, Rome fell. Similarly, America's comfort could kill it.
Not sure what to think of the following one, but it could be true (regarding competition from the Soviet Union in space science, from oil-rich states in resources, and from Japan in technological quality)
"The concerns in each one these cases was well founded, the projections intelligent. But the reason that none of these scenarios came to pass is that the American system—flexible, resourceful and resilient—moved quickly to correct its mistakes and refocus its attention. Concerns about American decline ended up preventing it. As Andy Grove puts it, 'Only the paranoid survive.'"
Nothing like the prospect of getting your butt kicked to wake you up. But in today's fast paced world, can we rise to a challenge as quickly as in the past? - kramer3d, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22"Don't forget about lead poisoning in Roman water due to their lead plumbing. It's American equivalent I guess is all the contamination in the air and water (mercury in fish, etc) and carcinogens seeping into our food from pesticides and plastics."
No, I think the modern day equivalence to that would be "fat poisoning" (eating too much fast food)
:) - Smoov, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21People have been predicting the imminent failure of the US for at least 50 years.
They are always wrong and they themselves are inevitably from second-rate countries and/or lack any entrpreneurial spirit.
The reasons America is so successful are many and varied. One reason is the freedom of speech which allows anti-American cretins to vent to their black little heart's content 24x7 over the web. America has srivied all of these Cassandras and she is as strong now as she has ever been before.
Europe is dying (< 1.5 fertility rate) as is Japan. China is still an authoritarian police state. This inherently restricts the environment of political and economic freedom which is essential to replicating American levels of prosperity and success.
I hope that Europe, Japan and China all do well! I hope the entire world does well. Unlike the torglodytic haters above I do not believe it is "us versus them", and that every gain made by India comes at a cost to America. This is not a race, you simpletons.
So stop criticizing EVERYTHING and take a look in the ***** mirror. What have you done today that made the world a better place? - potee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Economically, China doesn't really qualify as Communist. They're Capitalists wearing Communist hats. Socially, they are very Communist, however. Which is really holding them back in terms of innovation. Everyone talks about how many engineers China turns out, but how may of those engineers really can design things using logic and innovation, rather than root memorization? Any Chinese engineer can tell you how to build something that already exists, it takes imagination to design something new. Which is not a trait that is encouraged in Chinese education.
- mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14What we need is a government that believes in science and technology, and not just religion.
- bebop717, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Perhaps rather than sinking billions of dollars into warfare we could spend it on education, to engage kids to be interested in engineering or physics or whatever, and instill with them a sense of pride with their work.
Yeah right like that is really going to happen. - dimplemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14this is simple enough to summarize.
Your kids got too fat, too lazy, too complacent, too spoiled to realize that the rest of the world's kids continued to work hard, gain knowledge, and improve upon greater technologies in all fields while you were busy playing in your world of instant gratification thinking that the whole planet needed to serve you hand and foot! - revgriddler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@Zoplax
Brazil, dude. Brazil. - Jazzed, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13>I love this statement. First of all, they've combined china and india, countries with about a billion people apiece. EIGHT TIMES the amount of people than the US. If you do some simple calculations you find that the US is still pushing out the most engineers a year per population (yeah they're rome and they're really losing).
Wait...according to the numbers you gave me:
China/India combined: 2,000,000,000 people
United States: 250,000,000 people (according to your 8x statement)
China/India combined, engineers per 100 people: 0.048
United States, engineers per 100 people: 0.028
Explain your point? - thegline, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14"What was the last great invention that came out of the US and not out of Japan or South Korea?"
Google. - phoggey, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13137,437 engineering graduates for the U.S., 112,000 for India and 351,537 for China. Research by Duke Univ. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1642439/posts . The article is actualy wrong.
- irwhiteboi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12The way things are supposed to work:
Curent Situation: 2billion people in India/China doing basically nothing right now except farming/low quality jobs.
50 years from now: 80% of that 2billion is now producing tech/innovative products.
Result: The whole world benefits because more people are producing goods. More people producing goods = cheaper goods for everyone.
So really who cares if china and India finally stop being bums and start catching up to the rest of the world, its better for us if they do so because we will have cheaper goods to purchase for ourselves. Not to mention more people to sell our own goods to.
It's a win win situation, not a race with only one winner. - TheRonald, on 10/12/2007, -25/+34The one thing that we as Americans have is creativity and a society that thrives on it where as China and India have a rigid education structure that stifles creativity.
- brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16"Really though, does it matter we're on top? I mean everyone gets the technology eventually so why does it matter who invents it first?"
You probably live in the US now don't you? Go to a third world country. See how much technology they're getting with us on top.
Personally I think it's pretty sad if the US is the best this world has to offer. I mean...we were founded on some pretty great *****, but after a while the power got to us and we're spoiled lazy ***** that couldn't compete if our lives depended on it. - johndi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10America doesn't have to develop the best, we having been encouraging the best to immigrate here for years. Tesla was Croatian. Einstein and Wernher Von Braun
were German. William Shockley and Bell were from the UK. It aggravates some countries as much as it annoys baseball fans when the Yankees poach top talent, but other countries are starting to emulate us when it comes to hiring the best. Things could get interesting when the talent pool starts to shrink.
This list is far from complete, but here are more.
http://www.windsorct.org/sagelmc/GRADE8/famous_immigrant_scientists.htm - diggnationdevon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Well America is leading the world, most of the greatest inventions were created by Americans, but yes other countries are catching up. For example, compare american vehicles vs. foreign vehicles. American vehicles used to be the best, not anymore.
- generic109, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Casedot,
The idea that the US "supports" other countries is a myth that most people believe in. In fact, we are rather stingy; as percentage of GNP, we give a fraction of what, say, the Scandanavian countries do. And while Scandanavian foreign aid is truly humanitarian aid, most of our foreign aid is military aid, which means that the money gets transferred back to defense firms in the US. I think half of our foreign aid is military aid to Egypt and Israel. And only a fool would believe that providing money for arms somehow benefits the world.
The only reason that engineers in other countries are a threat is because OUR capitalists would rather hire them because they are cheaper. - tidu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Don't we always need at least a somewhat superior state to be "the" superpower? If a bunch of the top countries are at equal level, without being "monitored" persay by a higher power, they would probably fight more often knowing that the "leader" can't jump in and settle it (like the US has done in the past). We've always had someone like that; Rome, Great Britian, Russia/US, and the US now... We'll have to see how it turns out. It's going to be very interesting in the next few decades, granted we survive past the end of the calendar (2012) ;)
- heymark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Or, the Internet itself.
- ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13In other words, "I'm too blinded by my patriotism to really step back and realize what is going on!"
Forget the fact that every dominant empire/nation has fallen, America is the greatest, right? - Dogtown7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I'm American, but I can't wait until the US is no longer number 1. Finally, I'll be able to pile on another country and say they are ruining the world for the rest of us.
- fugazi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Whats to say that the same will not happen to your children when they are faced with the same enviorment? When everyone catches up they will fall victim to the same thing we face today.
*Until the people near their 20's are able to become political leaders and they can actually get the funding they need we will be faced with the same problems we face today. - Loonacy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"With Bush as our leader...I think not."
You think it'll be sooner? - kalisphoenix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"The US is incapable of losing."
Good morning, Vietnam!
(And don't blame it on the hippies. Remember a post-revolution Russia fighting off, what was it, 20 armies from 17 countries, all invading at once? Our strength is a lot more tenuous than you imagine, whether you speak militarily or economically.) - theenginedriver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Proud physics and physiology major here! Of course, I went to Canada to get my education...
- PBoiIceBerg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Anyone that pays the slightest bit of attention to actual things going on in the real world already knows American is on a decline, that surely won't stop anytime soon. There are three groups of Americans: The majority who blindly ignore the truth because they can't handle it or don't want to be bothered with it, the middle who believe everything Mass Media and the Government tells them because they don't know any better or think the contradictions are too radical to believe, and the minority who just aren't larger enough, powerful enough, or willing enough to set this country on a positive course. Too many people are worried about there own lives and problems in the here and now, not realizing ignoring everyone else's only further worsens their own.
- hustler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Actually the EU is China's biggest trading partner, not that your point isn't still valid.
- spoonman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9People have been saying this for at least 25 years, probably longer. You have to remember that engineering degrees do not a flourishing society make. In fact, it's more important to have smart business people. You can have the greatest engineers in the world and waste them with poor management.
In any case, first it was the Russians who were going to overtake the US. Then it was the Japanese. Now it's India and China. Although I'm sure the general anti-US digg community would wank over this, it's all FUD right now. - theone3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Oh come on, that's overreacting. No one here is saying they hate the USA, except the usual trolls. All that's being said is that unfortunately for the USA, the rest of the world is catching up, and that relatively speaking, people in the USA are overpaid, undereducated and inefficient workers.
- macross9321, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The US just doesn't prize intelligence. It's just like that story about scientists in Asia being superstars. Who are superstars in the US? People like Ludacris, basketball stars, and Britney Spears
amen my brother preach on - electromagnetic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7'"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.'
It's been said before, how about take a trip to Ramsses II's mummy and laugh your ass off at him for his empire collapsing. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't true. I can't see oxygen, but I know it's there - I can't see gravity but I know it holds me down and doesn't push me down. - b0wl0fud0n, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I think that's an awful way of depicting the United States. If anything, America is soaring...like the Hindenburg.
But seriously though, I don't see why people are so concerned with the fact that America won't be leading the world anymore in technological innovation? Isn't it to be expected? After all, assuming that everyone is born with roughly the same intelligence, with the right resources, innovation should occur at roughly equal percentages across countries and America will fall behind only as a result of it's smaller population.
I think it's important that people pay attention to the economic principles which are causing China's growth and America's slow growth rate. Assuming that countries use their resources efficiently and that there are diminishing returns to capital and labor increases, the neo-classical growth model predicts three important things. "First, increasing capital relative to labor creates economic growth, since people can be more productive given more capital. Second, poor countries with less capital per person will grow faster because each investment in capital will produce a higher return than rich countries with ample capital. Third, because of diminishing returns to capital, economies will eventually reach a point at which no new increase in capital will create economic growth" (wikipedia). America has merely reached a point in the Solow growth curve where the percentage growth is very small.
However, looking at the broader picture, we'll see that China's gdp/capita compared to the United States is still relatively small...and although China currently has very high growth rates...it will...like the United States reach the same steady point once average incomes in China reach a level that nears that of the United States.
America has been rather fortunate to have led the world in during a time in which natural resources were relatively cheap. What I think will be interesting to see is how energy demands and the increasing prices of natural resources will affect world wide growth. As oil begins to run dry, how will shortages play out on the world market?
Another question to be asked is as Chinese labor costs increase, how will that affect the world wide trade balance? Where will people invest next? I think an interesting place to look at is Africa. After all, Africa is the only region of the world that has experienced a negative growth rate throughout the last century. At what point do China's labor costs have to rise before corporations begin to invest in Africa which has almost no infrastructure?
A side note. I wouldn't worry about America's future too much. Considering the fact that oil prices will continue to rise, it will make coal energy a far more attractive alternative to oil (coal can be converted to oil), and since America is the Saudi Arabia of coal...we're sitting on a gold mine. - blitzman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"To be honest, i think the main reasons the united states rose to power was because of lots and lots of raw material and clever people like ben franklin... oh and the slave labour..."
The Soviet Union had more raw material and an entire nation of slave labor. But they remained a 3rd rate economy. Japan and Hong Kong had no natural resources and no slaves - but they rose to be first rate economies. The magic ingredient for prosperity is low taxes and low regulation. The US economy is losing its prosperity because of increasing regulation and increasing government tax and spending. - theone3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8That's great, because China's cloning him.
Get ready to see the movie "The One" with 3 Jet Li's! - TopherT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The problem is that while we're hemmoraging jobs and money into the defecit at breakneck speed we still have military technology for which we spend 10 times more than the next biggest guy. When the USA starts becomming obviously backwards culturally and economically, it'll bring down a ***** of imperialism the likes of which we have never before seen. (It could be argued that this has already begun, we all know the US is trying as hard as it can to keep China from getting as much oil as it needs.)
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the USA has been without equal both economically and militarily. When you are on top and don't have to try so hard, you don't try so hard. Sooner or later the next kid on the block becomes stronger, fitter, and gets in your face. That kid may be China, we're not really not sure yet.
One thing history has taught us is that the USA needs a reason to kick it into high gear. Things have been fine, and so long as the status quo is plenty good we'll continue on the same path at the same speed. But....
Once we're presented with a challenge, once again we'll rise to the occasion. We'll form a more cohesive front and we'll turn up the volume. Yes, we have done it in the past and yes we'll do it again.
Economically there will be no need for a superpower as all nations leave the 3rd world behind, this is a good thing. As corporations become more and more multi-nationalized the importance of what border said business is based in will become less and less important. One would think that a nation of people who don't make things to be doomed, however according to the very valid concept of opportunity cost that is not necessarily true. If the USA becomes the business district of the world, that will be find and dandy for most Americans, as we'll prosper like never before.
The world doesn't do well with a monopoly superpower, in that respect many miss the Soviet Union for the balance they brought the world. Another kid will rise up to be the next Soviets to us Yanks, and the force will be in balance again... Mark my words, it will happen and it will be good. -
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