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113 Comments
- Renuvian, on 10/11/2007, -2/+41I get between 45 and 55 mpg with my Prius. I can tell a big different in my mileage depending on how I drive. I have gotten 58 mpg on a tank when I kept close check on my acceleration, didn't exceed 60 mph on the highway etc., but that's not much fun and concentration should really be paid more on safe driving than efficient driving.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+43Oh yah, since this new battery is so great, can we leave the god dam fossil fuel out?
I'm looking forward to the day when we can tell the Saudi's to go ***** off - Hidama, on 10/11/2007, -6/+41The more interesting part of the article:
"...it is still very far from breaking the world record for the longest drive per gallon of fuel. This record was recently broken by a prototype car built by a team from St. Joseph La Joliverie University in France, which set an astonishing record of 7,148 miles per gallon of fuel (3,039 km per liter)."
Wow. When is that car being sold? - sahaskatta, on 10/11/2007, -4/+35@skyrocket
it actually won't cost much at all to charge it at home.
For example fully charging the electric Tesla costs about $2-3 dollars which in return gives a range of about 200miles.
so the price might be a bit more or less depending on where you live, but is still WAY cheaper than gas. - revmitcz, on 10/11/2007, -3/+30I'm trying to find the details somewhere, but I'm pretty damned sure that 7148 mpg was done with a car that only went like... 3 mph. Or something like that. There were a number of other caveats involved, which would make it unusable for a real-life scenario.
Anyone got that link? - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+271. It isnn't "mass produced" until it is actually, mass, produced.
2. How much?
3. When can I get one? My current car is close to the end, I have cash in the bank ready
4. What are people who live in apartment buildings without parking garages with outlets supposed to do? - Verdanic, on 10/11/2007, -13/+34It's still butt ugly.
- wonderboy, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2565mpg more.
- strafefire, on 10/11/2007, -3/+21Even if we cut our dependence on oil down, the Chinese and Indians will just pick up the slack from the Saudis.
Also, The majority of middle eastern oil is hard to distill into gasoline anyway. The following products are what middle eastern oil is REALLY made into:
Plastics and composites
Soap
*ASPHALT*
Jet Fuel and Diesel (uses a different type of distilling)
The majority of the oil used to make gasoline comes from South America, particularly Venezuela.
Why do you think there are so many chinese, japanese and indian companies occupying space in Venezuela, Chile, Peru, and Brazil!
What, didn't know that?
That is because FEW people understand how the commodity market works -- And those that do are incredibly rich.
The people profiting the most off of oil are the folks that TRADE IT AS A commodity!
And he who controls the commodity, can control the price of the commodity, and thereby control the price of the CALL or PUT options on the commodity.
Any oil company (or energy company), that have made substantial profits over the past few years have done so due to TRADING on the commodities market -- not in the commodity it self.
But, you will not hear the media talk about that.
You don't have to believe me. But, just take out a chart on almost any oil future (or the OIH), and study what "just" happens around that time of the month when oil futures begin to expire...
Now, do we need to stop our consumption of middle eastern oil? Yes.
Do we need to, in general, stop doing business in countries that violate basic human rights on an everyday basis? Yes.
Is our media telling us the true facts about why oil companies are making so much money from the PRICE of the commodity on the market and not the commodity itself? No.
The best example of this is Enron. Enron was kept afloat by trading Natural Gas as a commodity.
Even though they produced the Gas, they made 1000x more money trading it as a commodity (hell they even shorted their futures holding sometimes)...
He who controls the commodity, controls the price.
He who controls the price, controls the market.
He who controls the market, can print their money AT WILL. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -15/+32Yes, but how much does that cost in you kilowatt/hours on your electricity bill???
- unangst, on 10/11/2007, -6/+226.5194169e-12 parsecs per gallon!
- gatz, on 10/11/2007, -2/+18Depending on the cost of electricity, this could be a good idea. Agreed the 125MPG number is bogus since it undoubtedly counts a free charge from home.
But maybe the car will last longer due to less wear and tear on the engine? I know the Prius opens it's valves when the engine is off (the engine still turns with relatively low resistance). I would imagine at least some of the components would see reduced wear. If the cost of these batteries is low and if they last a long time, this could make a lot of sense for some people. Probably not me though, since we have some of the highest electricity rates in the country here in Connecticut. - brundlefly76, on 10/11/2007, -8/+23@skyshock21
"Yes, but how much does that cost in you kilowatt/hours on your electricity bill???"
Exactly - I have a car which can run on NO gas - its a golf cart.
However, the electricity for the golf cart is neither free nor is it cleanly produced.
You cant compare the gas mileage of a plug-in to a traditional hybrid - they are two different technologies with different problems of their own. - Manhigh, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13"To bad we use fossile fuel to generate most of the power on our powergrid."
True but
1.) The source of electricity can change relatively easily
2.) The turbines in power plants are far more efficient than the engines in automobiles. - Travisx2, on 10/11/2007, -3/+14Can I please upgrade my 05 Prius with those batteries and plug in unit???!!!
- shhteffen, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13No, don't digg down.
The 125mpg is the equivalent well to wheels energy efficiency. The real kicker is that in electric mode, you get 1.14MJ/km vs 0.5MJ/km for an ICU. The well to station efficiency for gasoline is much better than electricity, but still doesn't make up for phenomenal performance of the electric motor.
See Tesla Motor's write up on this:
http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/energy_efficiency.php
Calcars.org from Palo Alto is a non-profit which has done open source engineering development for this concept and has done wonders in advocating the plug-in hybrid technology.
Since the vast majority of Americans commute less than 40 miles per day, the hybrid plug-in is a technology which opens up many other energy options (gas/coal/nuclear/wind/solar) for driving our cars. Right now we have no other options than oil which comes from the radical-Islamic Middle East, i.e. our enemy.
The one thing that isn't talked about is the energy investment in manufacturing the battery that needs to be amortized into the lifetime of the car/battery. I don't know how much of an impact that has on the mpg, but it could be significant. Even if it is a wash, the aforementioned energy diversity is of benefit. - cliffzdude, on 10/11/2007, -4/+14125 MPG *after* a few hours on the electrical grid? Or on its own? They stress its a "plug in" hybrid, so maybe they're be stretching their MPG estimates with some extra grid provided juice... Just sayin'...
- ganjadude4391, on 10/11/2007, -7/+17......You do know we talked about how this is NOT happening in the next gen prius right???
http://jalopnik.com/cars/over-the-back-fence/toyota-eschewing-lithium-technology-that-gets-prius-to-125-miles-per-gallon-264397.php
6 days ago this hit the front page - catfish182, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12They talk about that in the article.
- poet, on 10/11/2007, -9/+18Who cares about 125mpg when there is 7148mpg?
http://www.tfot.info/component/option,com_rsgallery2/Itemid,0/page,inline/id,195/catid,1/limitstart,175/?PHPSESSID=b1a231f28ae3a77974b471bfa6c32ce2 - bacon_skoda, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11middle east and chavez
- johnwc723, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Its not really a car though, its a high mileage vehicle, (I used to be on a team that developed them). Yeah they get high gas mileage but they are made of carbon fiber, have bicycle tires, you have to practically lie down in them all cramped, and they sit about as high on the road as a tricycle. If you were going to have a vehicle like that you might as well bike, you probably can go faster (given the small engines in them), biking doesn't used ANY gas and, its good exercise too.
- jspegele, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Why is ganjadude being buried? This article is very misleading. Toyota has already said no to these batteries due to safety concerns; mainly that they tend to leak acid and explode.
http://digg.com/gadgets/Toyota_saying_no_to_Li_ion_batteries_that_get_Prius_to_125_MPG - apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Even when plants burn fossil fuels, electric vehicles are still far cleaner.
http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/electric-powered-cars.html
"...in a study conducted by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, EVs were significantly cleaner over the course of 100,000 miles than ICE cars. The electricity generation process produces less than 100 pounds of pollutants for EVs compared to 3000 pounds for ICE vehicles." - derkaas, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7@strafefire
"Even if we cut our dependence on oil down, the Chinese and Indians will just pick up the slack from the Saudis."
So, then they'd be the ones fighting the wars in the Middle East. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10To bad we use fossile fuel to generate most of the power on our powergrid.
- Manhigh, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8"Not to mention Lith-ion batteries tend to blow the hell up pretty damn easy."
Yeah, so does the 10-20 gallons of gasoline in the tank.
Designs will evolve for greater safety. - digitalarcanum, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6solar panels would help, too. As a matter of fact, i remember hearing some sort of a story where some company offered a mod to hybrid priuses and escapes that costs about 2k or so that would add a solar roof and charge the battery faster as well.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Toyota will introduce lithium based battery tech when it is ready. ToyMoCo has been extremely careful about hybrid tech, they're industry leaders in this field and have enormous interest in protecting the reputation of Hybrids. Prius, as a product, has been extremely reliable. The HSD is being primed for common use across the line, and there is no reason it can't be paired with clean diesel tech. Plug in tech is being considered for next gen vehicles with HSD capability.
- nickcald, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Take this article with a grain of salt. The article was written by the same company that makes the lithium batteries and the 125 MPG figure is not independently verified. Further, the company's stock is now trading at 5 cents per share. If you look at their website, they seem to do a press release like this about every 3 months.
- wstrucke, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9plug in at McDonalds
- TheUngod, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4I just have to ask, are these batteries as bad for the environment as burning gasoline? Better? Worse? Batteries like this aren't exactly environmentally friendly last time I checked.
- silverknife, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I'm thinkin' those same things.
- natetait, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Now, if only they could make it not look like such a piece of *****.
- kakapu4u, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Yep, that's what we learned from basically the same article on the digg homepage 6 days ago. This one seems like it's plugging LTC more, like maybe the submitter and the author of this undated article own some stock and want to keep the hype going.
If you look at Google Finance, does it go from May 30 to October 13 if you scroll backward in time? What's up with that gap? http://finance.google.com/finance?q=lithium - apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@jspegele
These are LiFePO4 batteries - not the same kind you find in your laptop or cellphone - they are not full of battery acid, and they do not explode.
Proof - this link: http://www.iloveebikes.com/batteries.html
Scroll down to the two photos. One is a conventional li-ion, exploding. The other photo is a LiFePO4 battery being punctured while continuing to function.
To answer another question here. this formula is non-toxic, and environmentally safe. - orlyfactor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2It will still never get as much mileage as Ed Begley Jr's car that is driven by his own sense of self-satisfaction. I hear that gets over 2,000 miles to the gallon.
- gummih, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Well, here's to hoping they produce a natural gas model - I would upgrade
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5The miles per gallon is almost irrelevant. You have to look at the total ownership and operating costs between this car and a comparably-size ICE auto.
You're spending more on gas with the ICE. However, hybrids command a premium that takes years to recover from gas savings. Add to that the fact that this new technology will probably command an even higher premium. Also factor in that this car has a hard cap of 150,000 miles. And, of course, you're paying for the electricity every time you plug it in, so factor that cost in as well.
Hybrids are great for the environment and all, but we are a long ways away from the point where they are relieving the economic burden that OPEC (and our soaring demand) has imposed on the world. - derkaas, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2You sure can. I'm sure your local Toyota dealer would be more than willing to accept a trade-in of your old car and sell you a new one.
- jfields026, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I have a Prius and it gets great gas mileage. I bought it for that. It's also great for the environment, but what makes me the happiest is giving the terrorist financing Saudis the finger every time I pass the gas station. It might not be the best technology or get 125 mpg, but it gets a lot better than 20 mpg and I feel like I'm voting with my dollars for the car companies to produce higher mpg cars. So what if I got to suck up the initial cost in the beginning; it's better for the environment and for our national security.
- robflm256, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It's not about the electric bill. It's about the environment.
- vertinox, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2@realitybender
In 10 years (maybe 5) gas will be $5 to $10 a gallon.
Secondly, you would think they would have invented a more efficient battery system by then so when you do replace your batteries it will be with a more efficient system. - daveisfera, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2@Manhigh
I know that movies would have you believe that cars explode, but they don't. We use gasoline because it only burns as a gas so it's basically impossible for your gas tank to explode. Unfortunately, the same can't be said of batteries. - 0crabby0, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I agree with you on energy independence, I don't want to switch to Canada shale from Arabian crude.
For us to have an impact on the trade deficit, we have to stop buying overseas products. Why not start with oil?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/524517/double_your_gas_mileage_2x/
http://phoenixmotorcars.com/index.html - orlyfactor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I'd invest in a "Mr. Fusion" car of the future, no doubt.
- kungfujedis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1wow. impresssive
- mph66, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I think a lot of the comments here about *actual* versus specious fuel consumption (overly optimistic) reports are well taken. However, here's my dilemma:
I'm driving a '97 Toyota Tacoma, 2WD, 4cyl, light-duty, "drive-to-Home-Depot-for-sheet-rock" vehicle that gets about 27 mpg at best. Pre-Bush, I was paying about $15 per fill up, or $60 per month. Now the truck is paid off, and it's got 140K on it, and I'm paying $40 per fill up, or 160 per month for gasoline. Now keep in mind that my car payment, when I had it, was $151.73 per month. Yep. I'm paying more now, for gasoline, than I paid for a car payment. And I can't afford much more.
It's time for a new vehicle, however. I don't want to buy a gasoline powered vehicle, because I firmly believe that our dependence on foreign oil is an issue of national security. I don't want any more American soldiers to die so that I can drive to Home Depot for sheet rock anymore. We have the technology. This news of a plug-in makes me hopeful, but it isn't here yet. And if it were, it's not in a truck- something I need to get work done, take trash to the transfer station, that kind of thing. So I'm waiting. I'm waiting on an industry that has the know-how but is too afraid to take the plunge.
Part of the problem, I think, is our politicians. If we had a leader who would say, "We're going to cut our dependence on foreign oil," in the same manner that Kennedy said, "We're going to the moon," and make that a top priority- we'd have that technology in our hands, as consumers. Politicians can offer companies who offer plug-ins tax breaks. Politicians can offer companies who refuse to innovate tax penalties. Government *can* push industry. The problem is that, republican or democrat- all politicians are "bought". And that means that you and I get screwed no matter what. - Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Sigh...you can't use the gasoline equivalence number without including generator, transmission, and charging loss. Doing so is called lying. Tesla likes to pull this marketing fiction too.
Generator efficiency is about 50%, transmission loss is 7%, and charging loss is about 25%. Which, amazingly, gives you 43MPG which is the same as it was before. - jm1234567890, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1it's also alot smaller
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