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241 Comments
- tau09, on 10/12/2007, -0/+44The scariest thing in this article is the comment by the mayor:
"You can get used to something knowing that you have to comply and that you have to have your bag open or that you can't carry something," the mayor said. "We are all used to that in this day and age."
Its sad to watch this kind of thinking spread and become more commonplace. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+38I couldn't agree more. We'll probably get as stupid in the end, but our polititians seem to have a bit more sense, and our kids aren't as screwed up.
Howeve, you have to remember that the problem isn't in the schools. Its in the stupid brainwashed minds of the ignorant parents and lawmakers who refure to bring up their kids properly and teach them right from wrong. Having said that, just look at the ***** braindead role-models todays kids have. Its depressing! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27I find that the teachers are the only distractions in my classes.
- Phyltre, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28An iPod makes an excellent bludgeon.
- supergwiz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21The linked article has no mention of iPods at all. Seems like it was included in the title to be Digg friendly.
- manchld, on 10/12/2007, -8/+27You Aussies are always find a way to rub it in :p
- stifrontman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Obligatory Ben Franklin Quote:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
Also, telling kids they can get searched to comply to law is kind of pointless when they have no choice in whether or not they go to school. - ccanni1028, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Can someone tell me where in the article it mentions iPods being banned?
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16If an ipod was ever disallowed, it would be due to the fact that its value can make some students prone to robbery and possible beatings by other students. The idea there is to discourage kids from bringing objects with a high resale value and which are not strictly necessary for their education.
Where I went to school, back in the day, in the Bronx, you would definitley not have brought in an ipod (not that there even were ipods, at the time) or even a laptop, because of the risk of getting robbed/mugged for it!
Or mabe I should say you would not have brought in your Altair 6000. lol
Many people simply don't know what it can be like for kids in certain neighborhoods.
Remember that, in general, the US is a sicko, violence-loving culture! - osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Good times :) - The_Decryptor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16"not having so many problems"
One of these days a kid's going to get stabbed with a sharpened iPod nano, then it will be metal detectors in schools all over the place. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21I see expensive lawsuits in their future.
- supergwiz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13I guess this shows that the cheif complaint about digg.com is true.. few people really reads or verifies the article before it gets promoted thus rewarding sensationalized or inaccurate news.
- TheCount, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19You think something like this is harsh on the kids until you see some moron with his iPod on while a teacher is trying to lecture. Then he fails all his classes and people say the schools are bad.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18Let me guess, you're American, right?
- AllenS, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16I remember "random" classroom searches at my high school. I was in all the advanced placement classes and we were never searched once. On the other hand, my friends in the lower level classes got searched on a weekly basis. =) Random, my ass...
- Poco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I don't even see the quote "a threat to student safety" in that article.
- michaelbeckham, on 10/12/2007, -20/+30I guess we are lucky in Australia not having so many problems than American Schools.
- MikeCampo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11My school also bans iPods. They find them a distraction to kids in class.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The "essential liberty" part has nothing to do with guns, etc, and everything to do with being free of the ridiculous burdens of the Police State.
http://joi.ito.com/archives/2004/08/21/police_raid_us_high_school_at_gunpoint.html
[For extra credit, check out the episode of Penn & Teller's "Bull-excrement" that's mentioned in the comments.]
Children are required by law to attend school. Once they are there, they are now required to subject themselves to access control enforced by armed guards, random patrols, molestation by guard dogs, search and seizure at any moment of anything ranging from a single aspirin to a belt buckle to a cell phone, and are subject to the whim of any penny-ante tin-plated little power-tripping goose-stepper wearing a blue shirt and a badge (like the prize-winner featured on Penn & Teller's BS).
In what substantive way is this different from the environment of a jail?
Now, how effective a learning environment do you think this is? For anything besides the "OBEY, SHEEP!" lesson, that is... - apache2, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16***** you you freedom squasher!
what is the world coming to. - KicktheDonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"...stabbed with a sharpened iPod nano..."
I believe the techincal term is 'shank'... - milkham, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I don't see any mention of ipods in this article
- ccanni1028, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Simpler solution- Don't ban the items but if they are used during class, the teacher confiscates them. If the student refuses, the teacher can use a taser on them until they give in.
- tapo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11You know what I would do?
If my school did this, and they asked to search me, I would decline, and walk home. There is no way in HELL I would stand for something like that.
Students don't need to stand for this *****, and they shouldn't. The more you allow them to get away with things like this, the more they'll abuse this, and feel more comfortable with instituting similar policies.
The fact that they're already using 'safety' as an excuse to enforce school policy on iPods and cell phone proving they're starting to abuse this practice already.
Here's hoping this won't last. - Dimah, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Could you name some? (I live in Australia and love it but I couldn't think of any problems off the top of my head)
Also: No mentions of iPods in the article... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Minors don't have the same rights or freedoms as adults. Until your 18/19 the only thing you're owed is a roof over your head and some food.
-----
They gotta start them young - if they didn't know how it used to be, or should be, then they will never have a problem giving up their rights (...when their adults :P )
-the mole - the_penguin_boy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Holy crap! If you ask me, NOT carying a cell phone is more of a safety concern! What are they gonna do with it? Throw it at someone? (Theft deterrent?) Why don't they just ban fingernails and teeth, while they're at it? And shoes, too. Heck, schoolbooks are formidable weapons (both physical and mental) if you know how to use them. This whole thing is getting out of hand. I'm just gonna say that I'm darned glad I'm homeschooled.
- orangeRam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"The [insert amendment # here] argument is also fallacious, because once you enter the building, you are no longer protected by such menial things."
Actually that is the BEST arguement against this. Courts have ruled that the public school students have a full Consitutional protection under the fourth amendment. The only place the school has a right to search without cause is a locker or other storage area on school grounds because its their property.
The reason the metal detectors are allowed is because its illegal for a citizen (non-police) to carry a weapon of any kind, concealed or not, on city property.
I don't see how cell phones qualify for that restriction...it seems they're trying to skirt the "distraction in the classroom" arguement that always gets shot down - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Basically, if we teach our kids that it's normal to have to submit to a search on demand, they will never even think to protest when it's done when they are older, in the name of security.
This country is no longer the country I grew up in. We might as well change our name to the People's Republic of America, or maybe the Union of Capitalist Fascist Socialist States. - darkinfero, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10so true the guy just wanted to bring the story to the front page with the word "IPOD"
- Shaunt, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Do you really think that the people listening to ipods during lectures would listen to the lecture otherwise? Although I don't listen to my MP3 player during lectures, I use it while doing work in class since it doesn't bother anyone and it keeps me awake.
- Xiol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8To be fair, (as I work in a school - only as a techy mind), most of the time it's the student being, well, a complete *****, rather than the teacher being unable to control them.
There's a lot more troublemakers out there today than there were a few years ago, and the teachers are too busy dealing with the crap they cause than being able to teach the rest of the class who mostly want to learn.
Then again, I really think we need to bring back the cane or something. Teaching has gone soft cos of political correctness and the law. Discipline is non-existant because they can't do anything to kids anymore without getting put in prison. A lot of kids these days couldn't care less if you're going blue in the face shouting at them.
Down with the chavs. - SeismicShock, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Nice SilentNight, way to misrepresent the story.
Also, props to everyone who didn't actually read the story, but commented on how their iPod was a deadly weapon, so they could let everyone know what kind they had. - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"@thewise1 -- Your "right" to create a distraction for students who are trying to learn? Please. My right to a free universal education necessarily entails limiting your right to create disruption. Sorry."
Where does the law specify that you have this right, and even more so, how does a kid carrying around a cell phone/ipod violate such an alleged right? - Slagar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Davetd: due process clause. the government cannot take from you life, liberty, or property with out due process of law. while a student does not have the right to banned property within a school, congress could not make a law banning all ipods, at least not without compensation.
- nullmind, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"Do you really think that the people listening to ipods during lectures would listen to the lecture otherwise?"
What about the kid who never tried to listen because he knew he could rather listen to his iPod? - rockintom99, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7This article mentions nothing about iPods. The only reason its in the headline is to gain attention. Please, everyone, mark this as innacurate.
- euphoriadj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Freeedom means being able to say "I won't!" __Ghandi
- Alistair, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8No iPods in this story at all. Lame poster making up facts in order to get on front page. No digg.
- kakos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5re: thedarklordmole
"Minors don't have the same rights or freedoms as adults. Until your 18/19 the only thing you're owed is a roof over your head and some food."
*****. You should look up the SCOTUS case of Tinker v. Des Moines. To quote the majority opinion, "Students do not shed their constitutional rights... at the schoolhouse gate." Stop spreading this ***** about how minors and students don't have the same rights as adults. There are only a few rights, such as voting, that they do not have. - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Agreed. I went to a private high school, which was very strict on carrying banned items. That is, if there was any hint that a student had a cell phone on himself, most of the teachers would ask them to empty their pockets and/or confiscate the phone. To get it back, we'd have to direct traffic in the parking lot for a week and have a saturday school or two. Same thing goes for portable video game consoles, mp3 players, etc.
My mom is a teacher in the Memphis City schools. In those schools, metal detectors and random searches are nothing new, and they really do have an impact on the safety of the students. In a school near memphis (wont say the name), I believe I heard a story where several firearms, including an Uzi, were found."
So they take away a student's property and make them work to get it back, and you have no problem with that?
Maybe we should take away people's homes and make them work to get them back if the person annoys an elected official. - Malakin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Rated inaccurate as neither "ipod" or "a threat to a students safety" appear in the article.
- pmpc00, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Marked as INACCURATE. iPod is not mentioned...
- livestradamus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Somebody at digg admin should consider removing the iPod part in this title as it has nothing to do with this issue.
The REAL issue of NYC schools & random searches needs to stay but the iPod issue can go because there's no mention of it in that article. - umdigger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Taking away Johnny's iPod isn't going to stop me from kicking his ass for his lunch money.
- thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yes. Is there a reason the Constitution is somehow invalid on school grounds? On that note, though, one has to wonder why the Constitution is invalid on Courthouse grounds as well though :)
Perhaps we should wait to prosecute people until they are guilty, rather than prosecute them for something they haven't yet done and still have the chance to choose to do otherwise. - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm just thankful that I was homeschooled. Although I missed out on some aspects of life that I would have probably enjoyed, I at least walked away with the ability to think for myself and decide whether something is right or wrong based on the facts, not what I'm told.
That's still possible with public schooling, but it becomes less and less likely as school becomes less of an academic endeavor and more of a daycare situation. - superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9This is draconian! they cannot take cell phones nor iPods!! that has GOT to be illegal. My parents MAKE me carry my cell phone with me, ON in school. Last time I turned it off, and they couldn't find me, they yelled at me for 10 minutes before I could explain I was told to turn it off or have it taken indefinately. Also, when they take phones and iPods, they almost ALWAYS get stolen from the offices.
- mcintyrenator, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"It's not the right of a person to be secure in OTHER PEOPLE'S property. It's the right of people to be secure in THEIR house."
That's not what the amendment says, has some court interpreted it that way? It says we have the right to be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable search and seizure. It does not specify location. We should have that right no matter where we are. -
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