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145 Comments
- eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -0/+75This isn't about music piracy. Learning to play a song does not equate to stealing it. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. ***** you, RIAA.
- tidu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35The RIAA's attacks are futile. We will always prevail!
- speel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35As a n00b guitar player .. this ***** sucks.
- jcuffe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30I don't really understand how this is harmful to the record industry in any way. I see tablature as a way for people to get practice playing songs that are in the style they enjoy - it's not like someone's just going to go get some tabs off of a website and rerecord someone else's song and make millions.
Sometimes you just like a song and want to know how the artist did it. I don't see the harm in that. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30These ***** need to be stopped, Im sick of these ***** ***** suing everything that breathes. If i came across a large sum of money tommorow Id hire the best legal team the world had ever seen and sue the ***** out of the entertainment industry. I go on a conquest to make sure these ***** could not sleep at night and do everything in my power to ruin their corporate ***** lives. ***** these pricks
- Brettb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27In the end yes we will prevail, but things like MxTabs being shut down and ***** like that just hurts...its like being shot 8 times but still being alive to deliver the last blow to the enemy
- lo0ol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24The RIAA is just getting better at unraveling music and how it was traditionally constructed. Compare today's state of music to the music of decades ago. I mean, in the thirties and fourties you couldn't have a shot of making it unless you actually went out to see players like Coltrane, Bird, and Miles play and really studied how they performed the way that they did. Back in those days you could get lucky and actually get to step in and play with them if you brought your horn to the club.
Nowadays that's just not possible due to how large the music industry has gotten. You can't often expect to walk up to a club with your guitar and expect to jump in with your favorite singer/songwriter. These sites that the RIAA is now targeting were attempting to fill that musician-player relationship void. It's frustrating, to say the least. I don't play guitar myself, but I think we've all benefitted from the friend or family member who brought out their guitar around the campfire to play some of your favorite classic and new songs just because, well, people like music. I think that's really what's going wrong with the RIAA: they're forgetting that simple fact, that people like music and that it's not just some commodity like a pair of shoes or a book. - NikZ, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23Hell yes. As a guitar player myself, tabs have been with me since I started using the internet over 10yrs ago! They've taught me an insurmountable array of random covers, songs that I love or otherwise find interesting, that I often jam when I practice. Tabs have been absolutely instrumental in my development as a musician.
It would be a sad and dark time for musicians everywhere if ever we lost free access to fan created music tablature. - samnmax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20The music industry is hard at work trying to destroy itself. From their actions, it seems pretty clear they don't want people to hear their music, sing their music, or play their music. After all that, they still wonder why less people want to buy their music.
- NikZ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19Oh man, my apologies, I didn't RTA first. I see that OLGA is already down.
Those *****. Those ***** *****. - rritterson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18While it's true that the RIAA isn't involved in this one, it's yet another example of the piss-poor decisions the recording industry as a whole seems to be making. They don't seem to understand that we like music, and that by working hard to create a garbage tab so we can all play our crappy electric guitars, we are actually celebrating and supporting the artist. It might not be a cash donation into the xxA(A)'s coffers, but it's support nonetheless.
Eventually, we are going to cut out the middle man and support the artists directly. All the middle man do is attempt to make as much money as they can off of us, which alienates us. And they wonder why the industry is slowly tanking. - lovelei, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15what sucks is that mxtabs was user submitted, not stolen copyright.
and i'm sure many musicians would not care if you learned to play their music as long as you did not profit from it.
at the end of the day, it's all about the spreading and sharing of musical education and musicianship.
not stealing a copyrighted file.
i cried when mxtabs closed up D: - i440, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Why stop there?
They should install hidden camaras in each of our stereos and put rootkits into all of our computers to make sure nothing we do is illegal - trevorsm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12When I was first learning how to play guitar, I had a really hard time figuring things out by ear. Being able to look up tabs was such a great help. Now, I can usually tab songs out for myself, but it's great to have the option to use tab sites when I get lazy or have trouble with something.
Ultimately, I don't think tabs will ever dissapear. Even if all the tab sites were to be shut down, they would probably find a new home in P2P networks or somewhere else. - bug20k1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12but we're not talking about published Sheet music that's being illegally distributed, we're talking about tabs, that people make by ear and has nothing to do with copyright infringement, i'ts just a 3rd party interpretation of the song itself made available to the public so they can pretend they're kick ass guitar / bass / drum players! if it were sheet music, it'd be understandable why the RIAA is going after them... but it's not.
- OperatorNo9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Dude, don't clue the RIAA in about playing guitar around campfires. They will copyright that too.They will have lawyers staked out at all the campsites just waiting for people to show up with a guitar.
Following that, they are going to copyright the G,F,A chord progression as chances are anyone playing those 3 chords is infringing on one of their other copyrights. - jcuffe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Next they'll start taking people to court for writing negative reviews of X, Y, or Z artist's latest album because it impacts sales.
- eclectro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"But for once the RIAA isn't the enemy here."
Yes, but they come from the same spawn. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7What the hell? I play guitar, and this is just moronic.
- prockcore, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7OLGA (the online guitar archive) was taken down in 1997 (which angered me since I had several tabs on there).. so this is nothing new, they're just getting attacked *again*.
- Comp1demon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5SO i guess it's aganst the law to do this..... Is the MPA/RIAA gonna sue me??
I LIKE THE SONG ENTER SANDMAN FROM METALLICA.
For all you Guitar players out there the song is played like this.
6th string open
4th string second fret
3rd string open
5th string scond fret then First fret
4th String Second Fret
Repeat 4x
Drums come in...
Ooops I just stole the accient chinese secret of how to play a RIFF on a guitar and make it sound like metallica.
This is ***** - If I want to translate and tell others how I did it - I have the right to do so.
Tabs are the same thing - they are the opinion of how a song is supposed to be played.
1st amendment should prtect aganst this - Unless USED for profit by the Tab translator. - brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The fair use clause states that anything used for criticism or educational use is not bound by copyright law. Tabs and sheet music exist to teach, to EDUCATE someone on how to play the song. Sheet music and tabs, especially those that are user interpretations (even if it's copied from tab book, it was still that tab book's author's interpretation) fall quite easily under this interpretation. The MPA is just upset because they don't represent a viable business (selling educational materials for a price when copyright law basically states that they're free).
This is old news and has been happening for a while. Power Tab sites have just started to feel the brunt of it and powertabs.net shut down last year in order to lay low and not gain attention. They're back up now so head over there, pick up Power Tab (it's free, unlike guitar pro, and the tabs look better, only difference is no drum tabs), and get as many as you can before the fair use clause is *****-canned - thebman990, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Tabs have probably helped the music industry if nothing else. I can't count how many times I've heard a good song on the radio, decided to learn how to play it, and downloaded it from itunes/msn/etc or bought the CD, because I like to listen to the song a zillion times while looking at the tabs/chords and playing my guitar. I'm sure there are a million more musicians like myself.
- detroitstyle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@brstilson
PRS = Performing Right Society: the United Kingdom association of composers, songwriters and music publishers.
not
PRS = Paul Reed Smith: Builder of guitars and basses. - 4degrees, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6next in line is the air molecules that vibrate and hit each other bringing the music to our ears without paying the RIAA for the rights.
Then come the blood thirsty photons that, though the evil of radio, beam the music, without paying the RIAA mind you, to our radio sets that that contain unlicensed wires and circuits that carry their property as well. Once every wire and paper diaphragm has paid, in full, for their crimes against money grubbing The most insidious enemy is read for the final battle.
The RIAA having discovered throughout their battles, that the true criminals are those who are creating these sounds, this.. music. The RIAA and their relentless logic attack the artists demanding compensation for ideas and creations, yet to be created by the way, are their property and thus must be so compensated.
Scratching their noodles in confusion one musician after another put down their guitars, sitars oboes and bassoons. They put away their recorders, their mixing boards and the world became silent again. The silence filled the air, like the thick stench of garbage as you walk by a dumpster for a chineese food joint in an alleyway of a crowded city. And it was then the RIAA thought to it self; "It's quiet... a little too quiet..." - McMultiverse, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8It's pretty sad that a well-reasoned, level-headed and accurate post like this is dugg down and the "***** the RIAA" posts get mandatory +3's -- even when the RIAA has jack ***** to do with this. It's the MPA (Music Publishers Association), folks. You might've gleamed that if you actually read the damn article. And they are well within their rights.
- FoxHunter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Thank god I learned air-guitar instead of the real thing. Fame and fortune here I come!!
on a serious note: Everyday I think I've heard it all from the RIAA, yet it seems the very next morning I find I'm wrong. This is a new moronic low for the RIAA.
*shakes head slowly* - jpyun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4IMO it's better to go:
6th String Open
5th String 7th Fret
4th String 5th Fret
6th String 6th Fret, 5th Fret
5th String 7th Fret
No string skipping. EDIT: I guess you go from the D to Low-E string once but whatever. - daveyt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4actually i think its
D---------5----------------------
A------7-----------7------------
E---0--------6-5--------------
but i dont have a guitar with me ;)
(oops, have i just got Digg shut down? Ooh chase me Lars, chase me. - Comp1demon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I find this Complete *****..
I have the Right!!! yes the Right - to play whatever I want on my Guitar. If I play in a club or out on the street - You have no ***** right to tell me what I can and cannot play. Recording and selling a COVERSONG - is another matter.
If I have no clue how to play a song. I sit down and figure it out - NOTE BY NOTE on a LEGALLY BOUGHT CD or MP3. And I Tablitureize THE song - I have every Right to do so. If I Take a Published Song - buy the sheet music (YES MUSIC!! you know the thing with scales and notes on it.) and TRANSLATE IT into Tabliture and Decide to share it FREELY - it's the same as buying a Hebrew or Italian newspaper - translating it to English and giving away the translation for free...
Tabliture is a Free to use because it is a LANGUAGE. While publishing company's sell song books with TABLITURE TRANSLATIONS underneath the actual Music - you will never find a FOR PROFIT BOOK that is Tabliture only. The reason for this is Publishing right make it that they have to publish as SHEET MUSIC not Tabliture - They only put tabliture in there for all the self taught people and people with no music experience - this increases the audience and selling market in which people will buy published music.
I find it ridicules - that after Tabbing out a Song (ON A PC NO LESS) which is no easy task, that anyone has the right to say you cannot Freely make it available.
As a Bad example - The Bible is in many languages - But IF you translated it into a language that has not been transcribed yet - you can make it free distribution or Charge to sell it in that language because the Bible is Owned by no one.
Now If you translate any copy written work into a Language that the work is not available in - the publishers and the authors have the right to take your Translation (if made Freely available - publicly) and decide if they want to publish that work in that language and sell it - as now they don't have to pay someone to do it for them, but you as the original translator have the right to distribute it freely.
Now Music is a different story. It is a Language that is not Common - we all listen to it but many of us cannot easily read or write it. I feel that Tabliture is the POOR MANS Music language that allow fans, musicians, new bees to easily and quickly learn to play a song / composition. It usually is also incorrect from the original artist writing, which makes it an INTERPRETATION of the Fan/Musician - and if an Interpretation is made freely available there should be no president for CENSORING that person. And lastly it is not a language that is recognized by the music world - it's only there becuase it so accepted by the outside fans and hobbiest.
What the RIAA is Doing is imposing on the 1st amendment. They are Censoring the Speech of a person since Music is a LEGIT LANGUAGE. It is also a freedom of Expression, by pulling down tablitures you are censoring the expression of the artist who tabbed out the original song for others to use freely.
Remember the CSS debacle - DECSS with DVD's and that Linux programmer that wrote DECSS - / they decided to write the full source code out and put it on a shirt. Since the language did not contain any copy written material - It was just letters and numbers on a shirt. If someone copied your shirt and decided to go home type it all up and compile it - your shirt didn't break the CSS encryption - the Person who compiled the letters and numbers into a program broke it. It's a fine line and a bad example but it does show you what corporations and organizations likee the RIAA tring to do with just LANGUAGE.
***** - we can find websites on how to build bombs / why whites hate blacks and vice versa - why this race hates that race - why this religion hates that religion - we can find interpetation of many copy written works - It's all about FAIR USE. Next thing you know Binary Numbers 0 /1 - the basis of computing will no longer be fair use. Where does it end.
DO you really thing any artist (AND I MEAN ANY) really care that there are Home brew interpetation of their songs available for free so kids can learn the songs they love so much. ***** NO. I'll bet even Lars Ulrich from Metallica don't give a crap. NO ONE CARES.
This is ***** - I miss OLGA.... I was a long time fan of learning guitar from Olga tabs. I even wrote one or two myself (which took forever and was way off from what it should have been probably) -
I hope the RIAA sucks on a Donkey dick and dies of lack of oxygen - this is just outright wrong.
I know Im gonna get flammed by alot of users here but this is how I feel. Tabliture is the only reason I still play guitar. I was having my friends Tab me out songs Before the internet exisited. I never bought a Music book - just for the tabliture - though I have bought guitar magazine for the Free Tabs in there. I think that every single one of the tabs my friends wrote out for me - are free domain , free expression and a article of free speech - if I want to share them / or they want to share them - we have 100% right to do so. - mt066, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Oh wow if this is true than it really sucks. Really. I used to play a ton of guitar in high school and one of the coolest things about it was that you could play any songs you heard on the radio for free (unless it was like Jimi Hendrix or something....frickin' impossible). Tabs are just lines and ascii text usually. And lots of songs use the same progressions and melodies, so how would you tell the difference?
I used to have sympathy for these guys when their music was being stolen rampantly with total disregard, but they have crossed the line several times lately with these lawsuits and it's just really lame. - marcus_r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Very old news... many sites have already fallen to the wrath of RIAA, like MySongBook.
According to RIAA logic, tab websites offer free transcriptions of music that would otherwise be sold in the form of legal sheet music from your favorite retailer. Problem is, the stuff they sell is typically Blink 182 and is very easy to pick up by ear, and not stuff that would actually require at least chordal notation to figure out.
With that said... if you want tabs, you should at least do yourself a favor and grab GuitarPro. After, head on over to Ultimate-Guitar.com - johlin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3They never learn. I will NEVER pay for the music industries own tab sites, forget it. Not after what they've done.
So what's the name of the first guitar tab release group then? - Comp1demon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Next thing you know - your gonna have to pay Paris Hilton to say "THATS HOT".
- chixdiggit, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5well first off, check this: http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/s/207/207169_its_a_fiddle.html
you can make any joke you want about what the industry will do next. nothing will top reality.
before phonographs and the wireless were in vogue, the player piano was the most popular form of home-entertainment, and the traditional piano was extremely popular as well. the sheet music buisness was a HUGE industry, and the precedents established by this pre-recordings business model (such as the concept of 'publishing,' which in reality generally represents most of the money that a given artist actually can count on recieving) form the bedrock of copyright and rights-management as applied to the music industry as a whole.
as strong a supporter of progressive attitudes toward copyright that i am, there's really no call for shock about these trade groups acting like their buearucratic peers on the recordings side, the ever lovable, just wanna kiss em RIAA. it's essentially bullying, much like the actions of the ersatz para-law-enforcement stormtroppers of the RIAA- we sue you under dubious conditions, or at least threaten to do so, and because you tremble at the legal costs of even WINNING A CASE, you settle.
the legal grounds for this action are, unfortunately for people who liked the site, very solid. as i noted, sheet music- and anything that could be considered derivative of such- has been protected by law since before recorded music, broadcasting, and the internet existed. for the same reasons that summarizing a movie to your friend is not a crime, but typing out the script technically is. the key thing is that you're creating a work derivative of another copywrited one.
but really, with the way the record biz bitches about lost profits due to 'piracy,' i'd thought the sheet music biz all but dead. - Comp1demon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Just my point...........
3 users interpetations of how a Song is played.
All of them or none of them could be right?
how is that aganst the law / copywrite to distribute?
how is that a copywrite violation - its about enriching the musician with proper thinking of how to lay out the song on his instrument to make it efficent to play.
IF people didn't care about playing OTHERS music - don;t you think so many GENERS would be DEAD and Long gone and FORGOTTEN - like Greggorian chant, Classical and perhaps even DISCO? - NicP, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If i can reverse engineer software to make compatible products why cant i reverse engineer music and show my efforts online? Its not like some big piracy ring duplicating sheet music and making money. Ifs a few hobbyists enthused about music!
- carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3actually, they've been vulturing artists for years. why do you think they won't pick up anyone over the age of 25 for major play time? young musicians know it's hard to get into the industry, and are much more likely to take any chance they can get that'll make it so they can make a living making music. While older people may be just as good, and often better at making music, they're not signed like 15 minute pop bands because some older band is going to be more likely to get a lawer, have them look over the potential contract, have them argue to get it like they want (knowing the label wants their music) and be expected to get their cut from sales.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You think THIS Is bad?!?!? People are now banned from trying out musical instruments in some music stores because what they play could be considered a public performance of a potentially copywritten song... and the RIAA has been charging music store owners royalties as a result.
I wish I could find the link.. this happened about 6-8 months ago. - Comp1demon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What if your Tab was written backwards wouldn't that make the song entirely different? Then just learn to read from right to left and bottom to top instead of the traditional way?
I wouldn't see it as a direct traditional Tabliture and hence be covered under freedom of expression. Whouldn't be the tab sites fault that people are playing tabs backwards?
stuipid I know - but might just work? - anguijm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2***** we were saying "Thats hot" 10 years ago. That chick needs to pay us...I'm sure however that we would have to kick up some points to the next 'No, I said it first' person.
- DarthBrady, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2LONG LIVE MXTABS.NET!!!
You are gone, but NOT forgotten!! - Comp1demon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2THere is a Difference between Translate and Interpet.
IF I translate - I do have the right to distribute it , becuase how the ***** does the original publisher know what I wrote?
Second - Interpetation is different from translation - while Tablisture can be the deffenition of BOTH - I feel and i believe lawfuly it is a INTERPETATION - not a Translation.
My 2 Cents.
Bottom line - KIlling User Tabs online is WRONG! and I believe it violates a users rights. - Notagumshoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2 I can make a parody of any song with the exact same music (re-recorded) and different words without having to pay a penny to the person who owns the rights to that song. Why then is tabulator illegal? Isn't it just providing content for parody? If someone has enough money to fight this it could be won under these grounds. I don't think the law has changed since 2001 when I researched it.
I strongly dislike most parodies and think the law is stupid. However, use it for good if the RIAA is going to abuse their power. - rubored, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3HOLY ***** *****!
I AM NEVER BUYING A CD AGAIN :@ :@ :@
***** MPAA/RIAA RUINED MEDIA ALL TOGETHER!
THANX, AND CHEERS FOR ALL THE ***** LAME LAWSUITS!
***** ANGER!
+Digg! - swiftness, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11This is about publishing, not selling recordings. It's all about protecting songwriters.
When a songwriter writes a song, they own the copyright to that song. Often songwriters will decide to sell a portion of their copyright (known as the publishing half) to a music publishing company. A music publisher's job is to exploit the copyright and generate revenue from the song. One of the ways music publishers do this is by selling sheet music. When you make sheet music available freely online, without the permission of the copyright owner, it is just as harmful to the copyright owner as if you were to illegally obtain a recording of the song. - johlin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2chixdiggit: it seems as if you think MPA does the right thing. Just want to ask you a question: do you think anyone who would normally buy the album decides to download the tabs instead and be done with it? Playing the song using tabs is not the same thing as listening to the song.
- 4NDr01D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2did your cover band remember to pay your ASCAP and BMI fees for public performance of said tablature song ?
reminds me of Braveheart, "what's he playing? outlawed songs on outlawed pipes." - cryonix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2this is totally lame, (the riaa not the story) i noticed a few days ago that some of my bookmarked tab sites werent working, then saw a letter saying why... whats next? humming a tune? singing in the shower?
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