What is Digg?108 Comments
- Irco, on 10/07/2008, -3/+34I think the next few years should be interesting with QT and mono doing some serious advances to make applications more OS agnostic. Although I don't think the best way to bring innovation is to follow on MS steps (like Icaza keeps doing) I do think that C# is an awesome language for rapid development and combines the right ideas ..is definitely more than just the bastard kid of C/C++ and Java.
- lovestospooge, on 10/07/2008, -2/+23Says the Digger named after a major company.
- Insolence, on 10/08/2008, -8/+26Mono is great, C# is great, I love where programming is going.
Really proud to be a young programmer, so much to learn still and everything is getting better and better. - abbathdoom, on 10/07/2008, -8/+24I'm not a coder, so most of this article goes over my head, but I know it will mean better Linux apps and that can only be a good thing.
- hakubo, on 10/08/2008, -0/+10Yes, they can.
Provided you don't use any Linux-specific libraries, like Gnome mono bindings. - inactive, on 10/08/2008, -0/+9That observation is made of pure awesome.
- stoanhart, on 10/07/2008, -3/+12Agreed. I generally use open source when possible on principle, but at work I am developing an Asp.NET web application... and I love it. I'm going to try Java Server Faces next, as it is a comparable but open-source platform, but so far Asp.Net simply rocks.
- maxppp, on 10/08/2008, -4/+13I genuinely don't get your comment, please explain.
- noPCtoday, on 10/08/2008, -6/+14I really hope Microsoft can support this project behind the scene. Personally I like C# over Java, it's got better framework & documentations.
- inactive, on 10/08/2008, -2/+9I prefer to write C# on windows, and stick with something else for linux like python or something
- Culyt, on 10/08/2008, -0/+7afaik, you don't even need to compile them, they should just work.
- katelin, on 10/08/2008, -0/+6http://code.google.com/p/monoxna/
- LennyX, on 10/08/2008, -4/+10Pretty cool. I'm doing a C# assignment at uni so I'll definitely see Mono goes.
- drikle, on 10/08/2008, -1/+7Most of the time, YES!
You can even compile windows apps(yes, even windows forms) and just run them on Linux with mono. - Dested, on 10/08/2008, -5/+11Love that job security. Hate on!
- katelin, on 10/08/2008, -0/+6It already works on ARM, see here: http://www.mono-project.com/Supported_Platforms
- Korgmeister, on 10/08/2008, -7/+13OK, given that C# is the only object oriented language that doesn't get an instant "KILL IT WITH FIRE!" response from me, this is really excellent news!
- hapax, on 10/08/2008, -1/+7Have the best of both -- try IronPython (Python for .NET)
- katelin, on 10/08/2008, -0/+5Mono doesn't have a UI. But applications written on Mono using Cocoa# could follow the Apple UI guidelines, yes.
- inactive, on 10/08/2008, -0/+5You can compare Mono to Java runtimes. It's also correct, but i didn't want to do that because Mono itself has included IKVM, its own implementation of java runtime (JRE). So when Mono itself is both .NET CLR and Java runtime, I think it makes more sense to compare to something else, so that people will not get confused.
About WPF, it is a big project that Mono team would need to undertake. But they doesn't have that kind of resources to implement it. Plus, the support for XBAP would require implementation of Code Access Security (CAS). CAS alone would need a lot of works to be done. - ramenite, on 10/08/2008, -2/+7Yes and no....
Mono IS .NET. There's no reimplementation on Windows going on here. A more general idea would be to compare Jave runtimes. As long as you use .NET 3.0, it doesn't matter if it's MS's implementation, or Mono's.
Problem with this is although the the run time is with Mono, there are things NOT with Mono. Mono 2.0 brings WinForms support. Nice, but now everything is with WPF, which ties you into Windows. You can use WinForms to hit both Mono and MS.NET, or you can use soemthing like gtk#. Although it's possible to create one binary to hti both, you won't see it, especially now with WPF being used. To put this in Java terms, picture if you have a JRE that supported AWT but not Swing. You get the BASE of .NET with Mono, but especially if you've using VS 2008 to write your .NET applications, you're going to be using things that are Microsoft only libraries.
I'm not knocking .NET on either platform. For Windows development, it's WORLDS better than what was there before. For portability, .NET combined with GTK# is a good combination. But overall it's not the Holy Grail of software compatibility a lot of .NET advocates make it out to be. - Gavagai80, on 10/08/2008, -1/+6Maybe they'd buy it because they were paid hundreds of millions of dollars for a return pledge to not sue Microsoft?
Actually the deal doesn't say MS can't sue Novell or vice versa, only that they can't sue each other's customers. The only reason MS won't sue Novell itself is that Novell has more than enough patents to return the favor. - JMellissa, on 10/08/2008, -2/+7Ah Ha! It HAS been ported to ARM:
http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:ARM - flashx, on 10/08/2008, -2/+7For those of you who thinks .NET can take over the enterprise platform is insane. Although Mono has made great strides, it's not going to replace Java in the short run. I have done development in both and although .NET has better GUI tools for drag and drop, I have experienced alot more unsolvable deployment issues on the production .NET servers. Causing hours of downtime. Java is more verbose and most JavaEE servers have great debugging mode making it viable to create solid applications. After all, no corporation is going to risk putting .NET applications on Mono. Java is the only language that actually closest to being portable to multi-platforms. This allows business the flexibility to switch platforms or use cheaper alternatives like Linux or OpenBSD. But I must say, if you are making a quick prototype with GUI, .NET is fantastic for that purpose. Also for people who wants to start learning about programming, it's easy enough to keep someone interested.
- hapax, on 10/08/2008, -2/+7Mono will survive without MS; the Mono project got so far without much help from them. And it's open-source -- so anyone can support it, right?
Even if Mono fails to keep in step with the latest .NET version, it is still a great development framework that makes Linux programming easier, especially for the Windows guys. - inactive, on 10/08/2008, -1/+5They support Mono alright. We have heard news over the past years that Microsoft is collaborating with Novell on various projects. .NET Framework and Mono is one. Silverlight and Moonlight is another one.
- thushan, on 10/08/2008, -2/+6funny that, no-ones laughing
- netant, on 10/08/2008, -4/+8Mono's "relevance" is based on two presumptions.
1) Microsoft has relevance in the business computing world. I think you're a retard if you think otherwise.
2) There are aspects to "C#/.NET"'s technology which would behoove a programmer to learn it.
Mono's "relevance" to open source was merely an insurance policy Icaza thought needed to be made. If all you care about is Stallman ideology of the "free" software movement, then you don't like mono. BTW, you also don't like linux, because even Torvalds & Co. haven't completely consumed the Stallman kool-aid.
I kinda like there is an effort to progress mono. I always thought Java was a sham. But the reasons I distrusted Java don't exist anymore. But now I just think Java is irrelevant; neither Sun nor its fanboys (IBM) can make Java a vital, cross-platform language which will have relevance twenty years from now. Java is a business language, just like C#. It doesn't even run as efficiently as C, or show the same kind of promise other languages do, in terms of rapid development, the way web 2.0/3.0 related technologies, or functional language programming.
Should you learn mono? It depends on where you want to invest your time. There's no reason to learn C#/mono if you never want to program for a Microsoft platform. On the other hand, learning java will merely mean you'll be competing with programmers all over the world, including India, for the section of programming jobs which technologically will become irrelevant. Everything will be heading toward web-based interfaces, and languages which are used to do heavy lifting will probably be future lanuages that speed implementation on the distributed server environment. Furthermore, java will probably never be efficient enough to move beyond "application" programming.
On the other hand, as a developer, you may be able to throw up working, complex, full blown enterprise level applications, just by stringing together Microsoft oriented pre-made object products. As an enterprise, it may be preferable not to give a crap whether your programmer is a java programmer, or a visual basic programmer, or a C++ programmer, or a C# programmer. Just hire a guy who can do what you want done, and provided the programmers understand .NET, the company code will be "portable" regardless of the language. You know your enterprise application will work, regardless whether you run XP, Vista, MS 7, or MS ***** 10 years from now.
That could be a big advantage over going linux and open source, stuck having to do refactoring every five years, or locating competent java programmers that can correctly modify java version 2007, in 2020. .NET is about being the next COBOL. There's no absolute way of knowing if Microsoft will succeed. More likely it will fail, but its all about what YOU want to do as a developer. - pinchduck, on 10/08/2008, -1/+5Will Mono run C# apps, including those with WPF components? What about web apps desiged to run on IIS? I really like C#, but unless it's 100% compatible, or very close (like using Java on different platforms), than it just seems like two silos, one language, and never the twain shall meet. I suppose I could be missing the whole point. If the idea of Mono is just to give Linux developers a new language option, but portability isn't really a goal, than it makes more sense.
What is the best Linux IDE for C# development? - netant, on 10/08/2008, -0/+3Actually, you will need to develop with linux specific libraries, in order to ensure cross-platform compatibility. Mono is not 100% .NET compatible; Microsoft being closed source on certain libraries and not providing linux ports makes it reality.
- init100, on 10/08/2008, -0/+3For me, that is my feeling towards Visual Basic, and to a lesser extent, other Microsoft crap like C# and the IronXYZ language implementations. I would really approve if Microsoft developed ***** though.
- init100, on 10/08/2008, -1/+4"I am pro .NET/mono"
Why, do you work for Microsoft? - maz2331, on 10/08/2008, -1/+4My only concern is whether a huge codebase will be created that can later be wiped out by a patent suit over the framework it's built upon.
If a bunch of mono/.NET stuff becomes popular, and MS later decides to sue someone and make the platform a patent-infringing thing that dies, the developers and users are screwed. Re-writing to eliminate it would be prohibitively difficult, and the only choice would be to run on Windows.
Plus, real men code in C. - bigsteve, on 10/08/2008, -2/+5What statements were false? I don't think any were let alone all of them. His statement also didn't call -you- retarded, he said "Microsoft has relevance in the business computing world. I think you're a retard if you think otherwise" which I took to mean as "Anyone who deems MS' actions irrelevant is a retard" which I also agree with.
And "pushed down people's throats through Gnome?" It's not like Gnome is the only window manager out there. Sure it ships with everyone's favorite Mr. Popularity distro Ubuntu, but anyone who wanted anything different even on that mainstream of a platform is only a Google search away from a 5-step tutorial on changing that.
Like many technologies MS pushes, there are features in the newest version that won't be mainstream for quite some time (DirectX, I'm looking at you) and .Net is no different. There are still shops standardizing on .Net 2.0. Sure 3.5 is available, but if Mono catches up now, they might as well be neck and neck considering adoption rate, at least as I perceive it.
Calm down. Have some dip. - inactive, on 10/08/2008, -2/+5Great stuff! I need to try and port my components over.
- hapax, on 10/08/2008, -1/+4There's MonoDevelop which is usable enough, and is your only choice AFAIK if you want to do GTK# programs (as opposed to WinForms).
Or, you could just do the code in Visual Studio or SharpDevelop (on which MonoDevelop was based) in Windows, then run the compiled binaries in Linux. - WoollyMittens, on 10/08/2008, -2/+4"The Mono 2.0 Mac Installer is not available yet, but should be soon."
As of yet it brings NOTHING to Mac OS X, as the headline incorrectly implies. - pobst, on 10/08/2008, -0/+2Aside from WPF being large, the main reason Mono hasn't tackled it is that it hasn't really been accepted by .Net developers. It's been out for two years now, and there are very few developers or companies who use it. Most desktop .Net development is still Winforms.
The combination of requiring the investment of tons or resources to create something very few people use is why Mono is currently not interested in pursuing WPF. - Gronkk, on 10/08/2008, -3/+5But the question we should all be asking is ...
Can Mono apps run on Microsoft's .NET 2.0 platform on Windows XP/Vista, without any modification?
G - tbredofsin, on 10/08/2008, -2/+4Great! Now where's Mono.XNA?
- TicoTico, on 10/08/2008, -1/+3I think is great to have a new open source multiplatform developing tool(s).
- Topher06, on 10/13/2008, -0/+2Microsoft's whole line of next gen Live apps are going WPF, its the future. There is no forcing of WPF on anybody, but if you want to use antiquated MFC/ATL/Win32 libraries what were poorly implemented in the first place, then go right ahead. WPF, C# and .Net is the first good thing Microsoft has done for application development in their entire history.
- inactive, on 10/08/2008, -7/+9Go! Mono Team, Go!
For anyone who doesn't know what Mono is. Basically, it is like Wine. The main difference is instead of reimplementing Windows libraries, Mono reimplements .NET Framework libraries so that Linux can run .NET applications. The good thing is .NET framework and C# are EMCA standards. - effiejayx, on 10/08/2008, -5/+7
Python and Django are by far more productive than java and any lang from the .NET stack. the only thing that does not make em more mainstream is the lack of a GOOD IDE for all the IDE oriented programmers to fall in love with. (Netbeans in Java, Visual Studio).
I believe you can try Iron Python in .NET, and Netbeans should Include Python real soon. so give it a go. - Topher06, on 10/13/2008, -0/+2The US military pisses away a trillion a year too, doesn't mean its right.
- hapax, on 10/08/2008, -1/+3Funny, that article says "IronPerl", not "IronPython".
MS hired the creator to enhance .NET's support for dynamic languages, and IronPython is even available as a download on Microsoft's web site. - vanjab, on 10/08/2008, -1/+3I was disappointed too. I think we can find the mono sources and build it our selves though, I'm trying now
http://ftp.novell.com/pub/mono/sources-stable/ (down)
http://mono.ximian.com/monobuild/preview/archive/2 ... - anshuman, on 10/08/2008, -0/+2there isnt even a date for mac release. so yea, just a headline. why dont they put , "mono released for Windows 7 too" .
- Magnes, on 10/08/2008, -0/+2Can't u use Gtk# in .net framework (the Microsoft one)? It should be compatible.
- pobst, on 10/08/2008, -0/+2I am curious as to how VS2008 forces WPF on you. When you choose New Project, it asks you what type of project you want to create, where both "Windows Forms Application" and "WPF Application" are choices. In fact, winforms app is the first one listed (WPF is listed 5th).
If you choose winforms, you will never see anything related to WPF. I would hardly call that "forcing it on you". -
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