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180 Comments
- templest, on 10/12/2007, -6/+73"setting up WGA correctly"
I love how they call it "Genuine Advantage". If you call Hitler "Santa Clause",
it won't make him any more jolly. - gmillerd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+66... the more star systems that will slip through your fingers?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -14/+72Awsome, this way Microsoft will MAKE me switch to Ubuntu! Which is something ive been putting off, but im glad Microsoft will give me that encouragement i need.
- Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34Note to self: maintain your position of not ever giving volume license keys to anyone else.
- pbaehr, on 10/12/2007, -6/+34Windows Vista was actually the precise reason I switched to Linux.
- chris4404, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27Microsoft should cut their loses with XP and work on setting up WGA correctly in Vista.
- rewritable, on 10/12/2007, -5/+29I already switched to ubuntu because I knew this was coming. I have a legit copy of XP but Microsoft thinks I should buy a new copy so I use my new motherboard. I'm NOT paying for something that I already have.
- insanemike, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21I only have a quote as my response from the 95 nerd theses posted awhile back:
"Treating your customers as potential criminals is never a good way to do business." - netnifty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Unfortunatly that isn't always possible. Imagine a company using VLK versions of Windows XP Pro on corp. machines, how can you prevent users from using key-extracting software to view the key (and therefore the VLK) used to install XP?
Given that Vista will have to use the key at some point for validation, and therefore is there for extraction, the same "vulnerability" will occur there. - Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20By "tighten screws" you mean "dig the grave deeper", right?
- joeshlub, on 10/12/2007, -15/+32If you need any pointers, check out http://ubuntuforums.org/
- TruthElixirX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17I can only describe this as...
"ugh." - joeshlub, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17Zing! Good one naio! I reccomend you take the blather you spew and replace it with constructive comments.
- borbosha, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23How about selling a product that is priced at a reasonable level? The biggest reason, IMO, that people pirate Windows is due to the extremely high price tag for such buggy software. If the software wasn't buggy and was actually secure then they could ask $279.99 (pro version retail on newegg) and people would be more willing to pay it. However, they have a very insecure, buggy and sluggish piece of software that they sell for way to much.
- o0joshua0o, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20Why even bother, Microsoft? You're too much like your old man. No piracy prevention scheme has ever amounted to anything in the history of Silicon Valley.
- acea, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Good thing too - more people will simply try out an alternative OS - find its free, secure, does nearly everything that windows could and has great support, development and community. I recommend Mepis (before someone else mentions *buntu - again!)
- sigmaman2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Switching to Linux was the answer for me. I have Ubuntu on three different PCs that I would otherwise have had to pay $200+ for just the Windows license. I find it extraordimarily hard to justify spending $600 for three Windows licenses simply because I chose to build those machines myself.
And furthermore, if your aim is just to "take linux users off of their high horse", you can see by your digg-downs that you have failed miserably. - xeroskill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12so... what about those of us that has there legit copies not come up as genuine....
yah, geniune advantage, first fix the problem where 1/4 of the geniuine copies come up as non-genuine.... - killdashnine, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Agreed. Ubuntu is looking ever more attractive.
As Microsoft becomes more paranoid and tries to "authenticate" what's out there, it will force users to react to their insanity by migrating off. It's going to happen sooner rather than later, or maybe Apple will get it's head out of it's ass and start distributing their OS to PC users too (pipe dream!). - Brutis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10read the column and it just says geniuine people will recieve new programs like "IE 7 and Media Player 11"
thanks but no thanks, I already have programs that replace both of those, so this is a pointless arguement on MS's part. And they could be cracked anyways if someone really wanted them. - alwaysmc2, on 10/12/2007, -14/+24Honestly! Microsoft has every right to fight back against pirated software. Some percentage is said to be false alarms, but statistics like that are always sewed. Plus, Microsoft will often give the user a key for free in exchange for information.
Also, if you are actively pirating Windows, you deserve to be hunted down like WGA does. So shut up, buy Windows, or switch to Linux. Either of those three are fine with me. - uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Because this is exactly what IT workers need...even more of their systems claiming to be pirated. Ugh.
Now, I'll agree to the very bitter end that MS has the right to defend their product and the validity of users' licenses, but there are two things that should be pointed out here. First and foremost, by doing this, Microsoft is being hypocritical. Whatever happened to "We'd rather educate than punish for piracy!"? By forcing this type of check, they ARE punishing, and not only that, the only eductating they will achieve is what the pirates will learn by switching to Linux or Mac OS. Whoops! :)
Secondly, what makes them think this is going to make things any better? They've already tightened the "Screws" several times, and they just made more and bigger problems. Regardless of how small percentages are, the fact is, this is a very real, and very serious problem for businesses and home users alike. The last thing support staff needs is to spend an extra two to three hours minimum trying to get new keys when they shouldn't have to in the first place. Look at OS X for example (No, I'm not pushing OS X, it's just the next closest competing product). I know most of you have probably never installed it, but there is no CD key. There's no activation. There's no WGA check. You install it and it works. Apple doesn't care. Yes, people pirate it. Apple still doesn't care. Why? Probably because the majority of Mac users DO pay for their OS, because they LIKE it. Those who don't and just need an OS install, pirate. Apple still does not care. I'm sure they don't like it, but they aren't going to put out the paying users to punish a handful that don't pay. Could Microsoft not take a lesson from Apple here?
By the way, don't give me the "OH BUT TEH MARKET SHARE!!!!11! LOL" argument. It's grade "A" bull and we all know it.
I'm not saying Microsoft should just let people pirate their product. If they want to be proactive about it, fine, good for them for making a stance, but there has got to be a better way to enforce the rules. You could enforce traffic laws by shooting missiles at speeders on the highway with an F14, but you're just going to end up blowing up safe, law abiding drivers.
Microsoft supposedly has some of the most top notch developers in the world. I'm sure they can come up with something better.
Also, in a way, I do agree that they should be focusing their power on making a better product, as opposed to being so worried about piracy, but, in all honesty, MS is a huge corporation with many departments, it's not like they are taking interface development time away to develop WGA. I do think though, that management should maybe focus away from piracy for now, and focus more on what users want out of their OS, not so much what other developers are doing for their OSs (Innovation please!), or what they are going to do to get people to "switch back" or "stay with" the Windows product. - gmillerd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13They could fix their priracy problems, by not ***** over people. Especially people on their side.
Last office suite I bought was Office97. It would be the last I would ever need, and likely anyone else as well, if they werent a ***** monopoly. A few control changes and that application would still rock (UI controls and server install could be better). Since then Office has sucked and basically just been a feature creep and incompatibility->update path.
As a VAR I can say that MS ***** themselves about the time they started doing Windows TSE licensing (workstation + tse + cal ... wtf) really sticking it to resellers in a "Open" fashion.
Their design of an industry that hinges on their upgrades (windows98 -> everything98) and gaps (viruses, spyware, backup, disaster recovery) has made the people that pirate the software unwilling to buy it. People that wouldnt steal a cent and are against filesharing and what not. Don't feel that buying a dell a few years ago and buying a dell this year means they need to buy windows over again. It "is" the computer to them. - Nightfall, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13You obviously haven't played any online games. The unique CD keys and online checks do the job very well these days.
Sure, it doesn't do anything for elimination of piracy, but if you want the online experience of playing against many players at once, then you have no alternative but to buy the game. That is what MS is betting on with this move. - pillfred, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10thats not hacking that just being a bitch.
- Aleks, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17Damn, another crack I have to download from mininova.
- Jadinlee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I'm really happy that I won't have to deal with this MS garbage any longer. I'll be switching to a Mac this holiday season and my current pc will simply serve as the backup for any pc-specific tasks I may need (no need to upgrade my OS). I recently had to reinstall my OS got to experience the full effect of WGA in the process... it was ridiculous. My computing habits are less about power applications these days and MORE about lifestyle... so the Mac will be great.
I do feel for the gamers out there. That really is the one point of leverage that can hook you. - KJay, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I can see it now, Joe Smith orders a PC from Dell and straight out of the box..."you may be using a pirated version of Windows..." Michael! What are you selling me?
New Digg Article: Windows Vista causes death by locking doctor out of critical patient information! - cody50, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10"... the more star systems that will slip through your fingers?"
the more Operating systems that will slip through your fingers. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"I can understand that paying $200 for an operating system is steep, but WinXP had a 6 year lifespan. Thats $33.33 a year. How can you complain about that?"
Quite easily, when you bought it, 5 years ago, it was not $200. It was (at least) $300 (Win XP Pro Full from Best Buy in 2002 was $359). So, through the years, it was more like $72/year, and that isn't adjusting for inflation. Secondly, through all of the service packs, patches, viruses (many of which took down my own network and my work's network for almost a week at a time), and support software (Anti-viruses, anti-spyware), computer management, etc. the true cost of Windows is much greater than any dollar value you'd put on it. The downtime that I've experienced with Windows, even at the rate of minimum wage (which I value my time WAY more than that), is staggering.
Comparing this to the Mac, $129 per every 18 months if you upgraded as SOON as possible (and not wait 6 months for all of the "whoopse" patches to be distributed), and MUCH less in maintainance, plus having features that Windows still doesn't have, and I've gotta say, I'll take Mac OS X over Windows any day.
Comparing this to Linux, $0/year, plus downtime to patching and updating, and somewhat more time than Mac OS X in maintainance time (due to installing software, configuring the system as you like, etc), and having features that you WANT, not that are forced on you (Genuine [Dis]Advantage), and I'll take Linux over Windows any day.
It's pretty easy to argue for what Microsoft charges for a copy of Windows. It's also pretty easy to argue that "Vista"/Longhorn, whatever they want to call it, should have came along 3 years ago to fix XP, and that virtually starting over on Vista has basically locked Microsoft customers into XP. I can't even imagine how bad software compatibility is going to be after launch, remembering the nightmares had with Windows XP. - gmillerd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Wallstreet Journal has analysist people surveyed stating that they are deploying 2 to 3 years out, if ever on vista thats why.
- NapoleonGold, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9They are going to force me and a lot of others like me that have been to lazy to migrate away from Windows into another operating system.
Good job douche-bags. Is there a free enema with every WGA update? - mkoby, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Yea, I'm running a legit copy of Windows XP at home, but there have already been reports of legit copies not working after WGA gets installed. If my copy of Windows stops working, I'll switch to using Ubuntu or Gentoo faster than my wife can so "but I don't like Linux"
- Lazybones, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8WGA basically is there to prevent MS from supporting those that didn't pay, why should MS continue to give you software updates and waste bandwidth when you didn't pay to begin with?
- Darth_tater, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5i understand why microsoft would want to protect their sftware form the people that do rip a lot of it off, but WGA is not the way to do it.
*wonders how long it will be before it gets cracked* - dark1152, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Microsoft thinks that PC makers, system builders, Internet cafes are sources of potentially pirated software.
Wow Microsoft. Have you ever heard of Russia or Hong Kong!? THAT'S where a ton of the pirating is done, not Internet cafes!
It's not my responsibility to prove to you that I am legal.It is YOUR job to hunt down people using Windows illegally. You've already pushed me away enough to but a Mac for god's sake! It'll be Linux next! - Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5And you seriously think that Mac won't come out with the same type of thing eventually? and who would go 15 years without upgrading there OS?
- sneakerelph, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6another score for naio! you are just full of insightful comments today aren't you?
- Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8and there you have it folks, one of the reasons MS invented WGA
- foxsynergy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Hopefully they get the accursed piece of glitchy rat poo out of Beta before they make another pelvic thrust into our backsides. Of course, that's never gonna happen. On the other hand, I'm making some side cash fixing glitched WGA false positives for people. :P
- mattus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Could be, and have been - about two days after the betas came out.
- sumadartson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5O, it's also perfectly fine for Grandma when she wants to code in MatLab. Or Mathematica. Or LaTeX. Or Perl. Or Eclipse.
Or when she wants to install XGL+Compiz to pimp up her desktop. Or use Beagle for searches. Or Deskbar. Or synaptic to easily install things.
Need I go on? There are tons of professional apps that run perfectly well under linux. In addition, in many ways the desktop environment is slicker than windows.
O, and my grandma always complains about the ***** CLI in windows. - STKD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Genuine Advantage (and even more so, activation generally) has been an utter pain for at least this genuine user. I have XP Pro which came preinstalled on my IBM Thinkpad R40 about 3 years ago. Like many many people WGA completely screwed up and started harrassing me. So I reinstalled XP from my backup CD (having long ago deliberately removed the "recovery partition" for space) only to find my IBM-provided key wanted me to call Microsoft instead. Which I did and as per usual I was reactivated. WGA will not be going near any of my machines, push it however hard they like.
Then is the fun of trying to explain that virtually every week I install a different OS or five on the laptop, be it various flavours of windows like the trial version of Server 2003, pen-drive Linux distro's or whatever. Virtually every single time I erase XP I need to reactivate and go through the whole tedious process. Already tending to make me look at Ubuntu as more and more of an alternative. Installed it on both my machines last weekend in fact for the very reason of WGA. Could I pirate XP? Undoubtedly if I wanted to, and I'm willing to bet the experience would be much easier. It's like being harrassed with unskippable anti piracy commercials on legitimate DVDs. In the end the only people it causes trouble for are the genuine users.
It doesn't work. It's pointless. Plain and simple. - atmicrat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Windows Defender, for example, the anti-spyware for Windows XP and Windows Vista, is available to genuine Windows customers. Windows Media Player 11.0, Internet Explorer 7.0, will be available for download for Windows XP customers who are genuine,"
All of these "genuine only" programs either suck ass or have been cracked. - Nightfall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Ok, so they are going to add more content for genuine installs of Vista. Thats probably the best way to go because they aren't going to be able to prevent piracy. The people who don't want to pay for Vista will find ways around the copy protection, keys, and so on. Even online keys can be hacked for offline use. However, if they can offer enough content, addons, or extras online then it may be worth while for people to buy.
Look at the success of online gaming and keys. - gadgetsguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4A very simple WIN/WIN solution to Windows piracy issues is to have a $50 ONE TIME AMNESTY for all the broke-ass illegitimate copies can upgrade to a full registered version of XP.
$50 per illegal copy - even if only 1/4 of the illegal copies actually upgrade, is still a very large windfall for Microsoft, not to mention the positive PR they will get - much more than installing MALWARE into people's computers to try to nuisance them into compliancy!! And Micro$hit might just gain a couple of new loyalists too - wouldn't that just be terrible huh?
90% of the people who pirate software, are doing it because they cannot afford it at the going prices, not because they are hardened criminals!
Personally, I would rather sell XP for $99 retail and sell 20 million copies, than to sell it for $300 and only sell 1 million, and have everybody and their brother trying to steal it because they cannot afford it. But what do I know about marketing??
Please carry on ..... - cartwheels, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12@dshPls
Wow, instafail. - cartwheels, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Can you say "disable automatic updates?"
Because I can. And I did. - Nightfall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Then it will be when you want to access that content, whatever it will be. You can bet it will be some kind of online content, games, applications, and so on. Sure, you can crack BF2 so you can play offline all you want. You can play with a serial number on 100,000 computers. The instant you go online is when the software will reject you.
The Vista content for genuine installs will be similar. Only time will tell if Microsoft will make it attractive enough for people to buy a legal copy. If it is like Windows XP, it will fail because the addons and extra content for XP really is not that good. - cwalk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Lazybones, I disagree. Simply put, WGA is a Microsoft money grab. Supporting non-paying users doesn't cost Microsoft anything more than supporting paying users (except bandwidth which costs very little). Microsoft has every right no chase pirates, however, the ability to pirate Windows was one of the reasons Microsoft has maintained such a huge marketshare. IMHO, unless Microsoft wants to play with the idea of losing critical marketshare to other cheaper/free alternatives, they will have to scale down their attack on pirates.
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