What is Digg?142 Comments
- joltcola, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30enough with the killer stuff....companies always say their product is going to be the killer of another product and it never is, it usually just fizzles out
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -32/+58Great!!! Another market that Microsoft needs to monopolize that takes its eye off of the real problems with its foundation product, its OS, so that other companies can sneak up behind them and kick them in their ass with a better product when they're not looking.
- CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -15/+37Sorry, but MP3 players existed before the ipod. Run along and much around in iLife, now.
- bugfaceuk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Competition is good for the consumer (that's you by the way). I'm a number one Apple fan boy, but every time I see MS challenged into action by the actions of another company my level of hope increases. Look at what AMD did for us! They made Intel go into over-drive, and that brought me a better Mac.
MS my just force Apple into some actual innovation with the iPod product line. It's great, it's sophisticated and refined, but boy it needs some changes to keep it fresh.
Good luck MS, good luck Apple, good luck Creat... nah. never mind that one. - nnocida, on 10/12/2007, -27/+46I agree with flag564. Don't knock it until you try it. More power to Microsoft for trying to compete with Apple. It will be interesting to see what happens.
- Footstick, on 10/12/2007, -8/+25I own an iPod and never bought music for this reason. I want to be able to switch mp3 player, and I want to be able to use something else than iTunes.
I hope Microsoft releases a good player :) - NerdyNinja, on 10/12/2007, -10/+27So, I like Microsoft. I own an xbox 360 and Uncle Bill pays for a relative's salary. But I still don't think you can make the argument that just because Windows is 93% of the OS market share, that it's a good operating system. Yes, I use a Mac at home, but I use a PC at work, and I just gotta say... it's both dysfunctional and ugly. Although I'll give it credit, I haven't ever had it hard crash - but then again, as a mac user, I kind of take that for granted anyway. Then again, you can't really make the argument that just because the iPod has what, 85% market share(?), that it's really that good either. I like my iPod, but that doesn't mean Microsoft's product will be crap. Allard seems to have a decent understanding of how to balance features in version 1 of a product in order to wrest some market share away from others. Then again, this iPod killer better not have a power supply the size of Kansas, like the 360, neh?
Yay, digg me down, 93% of you! - Footstick, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21int19h: iTunes tries the same with it's little bar on the bottom. Hell, even Winamp "tracks" you with their library.
Anyway I use last.fm so I don't really care if Microsoft can see what music I like as well. - dpezet, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18It's already been stated that Microsoft is considering "comping" users who have already purchased music through iTunes with free copies of the same music through their Music Now service. Microsoft will take a pretty big hit on that, but they think it is the best way to establish a user base when so many people are loyal to iPod.
Personally, I have a 40GB 4th Gen iPod and I hate it. I have had to return it to Apple three times to be replaced. So, now I can try Microsoft's without re-paying for the music? It is a tempting offer. - EmileVictor, on 10/12/2007, -11/+23What I'm worried about with the "Zune" is whether its software support will be just as good as the player itself.
One major pro point for the iPod is the iTunes software. It's simple, yet does a whole bunch of stuff, and you have your music there in your face when you open it. While Windows Media Player and its future generations is good for everyday music, it doesn't compare with iTunes. Another error on Microsoft's part is that WMP and the future "zune" have become synonymous with DRM in people's projected perspective of it. Most people educated about DRM believe that Microsoft and its media player will be made to keep the recording studios happy, as they have done in the past, while the iPod has always been attributed to the free will of a music lover.
So no, I don't think the iPod will be affected badly, especially if some of the mock-up designs for the 6th gen turn out to be reality. - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18> They don't know how to unveil a product, build user culture, or even cut loose and enjoy their own products.
unveil = xbox launch party was apparently awesome and it was a huge success.
user culture = xbox live
enjoy their products = no idea what you're getting at here and how you can prove something like this, but behind xboxlive there alot of 'face's (like major nelson) and even less popular ones who seem to love it and are there with the community.
> Hands down, this thing can't rival my Nano, or the next generation of iPods, which will surely continue to grow Apple's stock, but for the undiscerning PC-lover, it looks like your long-awaited weapon is within sight. Now go, defend your fellow geeksquads from the tyranny of iTunes and its loveable Pod.
So, the product were you don't what it looks like, what it does, how much it costs, and so on, can't rival your nano ? .. fanboy much ?
think before you type, so you don't say stupid things. - betterth, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18"Loveable iPod" Wow, Apple has you, hook line and sinker. This may be heresy in your camp, but Apple is a company. A company whose SOLE and ONLY goal is to MAKE MONEY. Cash. In any and every way possible. You know how they do it well? Because they make babbling idiots out of people like you, who would rather pay $300 for a harddrive in a cheap white plastic case than half as much for twice a music player. They've bought you with white plastic and the promise that you're buying into a "cool ipod culture", when in reality, all you're doing is making rich men, well, richer.
- mlkmnz, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19Hehe. Do you write your own material?
How about this for a joke - "Whats the most expensive way to get into computing, with hardware thats difficult to upgrade, piss all games and software available, that treats its users like idiots and makes it a nightmare to change even the simplest of settings"?
Give you a clue - it has X on the end. - xoineg, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18Why is it that Microsoft needs to be praised for taking on the ipod...they always do this...they see a technology market and use their resources to get in...Sometimes they succeed and sometimes they fail...They should concentrate on what their main products are to provide better products instead of trying to get into everything. This just makes them take resources away from other products. You don't see apple getting into everything, they just concentrate on what they do best. I just hope this time this device is not like the origami project which was pure marketing and with a lame product.
- betterth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Babbling idiot? God damn Quix, it's not personal. Stop defending a company who doesn't give two ***** about you, even if you're dumping your paychecks into them. They're a god damn corporation, not a country worthy of allegiance.
And nice going their chief. That Vision M, even in black, is 275$ at Circuit city, making it cheaper than the ipod.
http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Creative_ZEN_Vision_M_30GB_Media_Player_Black,__15660800/search=Vision+M+Creative
And the Samsung? $220 from Dell and Newegg and Buy.com etc etc
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=17588484&search=YP+Z5As
And don't bash on flash memory! The iPod uses a harddrive rated for 1/10 the lifespan of a desktop harddrive, that's slow to read and write, and uses a ton more juice than flash. Now, I know that the disc only spins to preload songs on a list into: guess what solid state memory.
That Samsung you quoted there? Yeah it boasts TWICE the battery life. It weighs almost A QUARTER of an ipod. Not to mention the plugs on the ipod are proprietary, and the samsung uses straight up USB. (Another way Apple screws you, you can buy Apple cords or no cords!)
Now, the Ipod plays AAC/AIFF, Wav and Mp3. The Samsung? How about Mp3, ASF, Ogg Vorbis (yes!), WMA and the DRM'ed WMA, meaning that UNLIKE the ipod, its compatible with all of the all you can download services out there. Again, another way Apple ***** you. You buy your music on Itunes or nothing at all. With the Samsung, 7$ a month nets you all the music you can listen to.
And back to the battery - Ipod Video is 14hr, the Samsung player you mentioned is 35 hours. 35!
So don't bash on the Samsung. There are plenty of people if given the right software would not mind changing out 4GB of music as a time. I don't have any use for having 30GB of music on my ipod at once. Not one. I keep a couple of gigs there, I keep my World of Warcraft on there (so I can give patches to friends) and I keep some other ***** ont here, because I would never trust those shoddy harddrives with real informtion, like my entire music collection or backed up informtion.
So don't call me a babbling idot -- I know what i'm talking about. - srg13, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14One thing's for sure: they'll need a better player that WMP for it to become popular.
- Burmask, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12The market is ripe for more players and the ipod is cool, but Microsoft has some smart people and I am eager to see how zune will perform. If I was Steve jobs, I would be concerned. The ipod is the cash cow for Apple and Microsoft has chosen to invade the market so Apple will see eroding market share. Apple is not even coming close in PC sales and they need to work on their price to be even more competitive.
- BradIsaac, on 10/12/2007, -13/+20How is Microsoft going to convince all of the current iPod users to re-rip or repurchase all of their current music to a different format?
- spunkmyer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9What worries me the most is Microsoft's 'rent' your content model.
If this takes off the record companies will have more ammo to force apple to switch from download to own to download to rent. I would rather not like to pay multiple times for the same song/movie that I already own. - OdinEye, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I find it irritating that all of these articles are written as if company "A" is developing a product to take down company "B".
While I'm sure that Microsoft defacto wants to develop a product that will have some market share (undoubtedly the more the better, from their perspective) these articles always present it as if it's a war between two camps. It's not - it's just a music player.
If Microsoft manages to make a better music player, or a better store, or both, and market it better, why shouldn't they gain market share? And if they don't, or if they fail to identify the key features (which in the case of the iPod really seems to be simplicity rather than a bunch of fancy features), then they shouldn't, and won't, gain that market share. - althe3rduww, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13Someone has dominated the market for too long...
*cough* windows.. *cough* - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7How are the 'counting their chicken before they hatch' ? Publicly they've said very little and the 'iPod killer' and other rubbish is just text being thrown around by poor journalists hungering for cheap and quick attention.
- drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+740 GB 4th Gens are actually notorious for problems. From my experiences with Apple, its the most replaced iPod around because the hard drives on that particular model get damaged easier (which they don't say why but probably bad engineering in that particular model).
Recently I've considered buying something besides and iPod just because now everyone has them which to me makes them less cool and the fact that they are overpriced for what they are sucks as well. Still I doubt I will switch to this thing because there are a lot of players out there that aren't so tied up to DRM and crappy music stores online. Maybe the consumers want the complete crap experience but geeks should know better then that. - staceyeileen, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8What are you talking about? Unless the Zune is not going to support MP3, I see no reason why I'd have to re-rip the music on my iPod in order to use one.
Or perhaps by "iPod users" you really meant "iTunes music store" users. - althe3rduww, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"How can you say it won't beat the ipod you haven't event seen it"
The same could be said for all of the pro microsoft player comments here as well. How can you think this player will succeed so much without having seen it. At least the people saying it can't beat the ipod have some statistics behind their arguement with the countless numbers of players who have tried and failed.
Yes the xbox was a success, but it was headed up by several people who were hard core gamers / previous sega execs. That sort of background does not give me un waivering confidence that this player will do well, unlike a lot of the microsoft fanboy's (man I hate that word). Alright scratch fanboy, just confident onlooker. (I am trying to be civil here) The point is that what made the ipod popular was a combination of things from its easy to use interface and stylish slim design to its coupling with the itunes music store. Microsoft may have its own store (with far less music to choose from), and it might have a descent design (however microsoft has never beaten apple in the design department), and it might have a nice interface (i salute you xbox 360). But even if it has those things it has to beat the ipod, not just match it, to attract people over to its player. I am all for competition in the marketplace, but I am being real when I say I don't have the highest confidence this player will go anywhere. - mlkmnz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10I use XP and OS, and personally I couldnt give a ***** whether I ran one or the other. If pretty colors and patchy driver support are your thing, then sure, OSX kicks ass. If you want something that works on all manner of hardware instead of locking you into overpriced componentry, Windows is the way to go.
Really now, if OS X were that good, and given Apple's superior marketing, why does it share such a small portion of the market? - BenBenMan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"suddenly your real player is broken" ... "I wonder if suddenly iTunes gets buggy"
RealPlayer was already a buggy piece of crap ... and iTunes, eeech, it's bad enough already. - DuneAdx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6My mom knows how to use an iPod. When it finally dies, do you really think she is going to go with a different brand and have learn how to use it all over again? It's the same reason she hasn't switched to an Apple computer yet. She doesn't want to learn it all over again.
Unless Microsoft can come out and directly say "This is an iPod killer" it won't sell. Most people don't even see mp3 players as being in the same market as an iPod. - VyRuZ, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Excuse me, but the PSP is not what I'd call popular. I am not saying it's a bad piece of hardware ( so you don't have any reasons to digg me down ) but it lacks games and the next best thing you can do on it ( watch UMD movies ) will be gone when the studios loose interest in this. Let's not talk about the battery...
Also, Microsoft would be STUPID to not make the Zune compatible with other Operating Systems. That could be a big advantage for them and I'm guessing that if the guy who is in charge of this project made the Xbox compatible with a huge number of devices, the least he could do is make the Zune work on 3 operating systems. - Footstick, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Yes Apple has done very well, but to think that they will stay in top forever is rubbish.
- drunkjack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Zune is the stupidest name ever.
- betterth, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7You're a ***** idiot. I don't want to be mean, but you're in high school right? Maybe a sophmore? Because you've shown us that you understand absolutely nothing about how this market works, and shown us that you're an apple fanboy and a steriotypical MS hater.
"There are only 2 ways for Microsoft to outsell the iPod:
1) Make it 3 x better than the iPod
2) Sell it for $10 each"
Wrong! You clearly don't understand that it's not the product, it's the culture and advertising. When you buy an iPod your not /just/ getting white plastic with a generic small harddrive and some shoddy Malaysian construction, oh no, you're buying pure cool. By owning an iPod you're entering a culture, a trendy hipster culture. That's why Apple sells well, because they make themselves out to be the trendy hip crowd and MS to be the suits. (Even though Apple is every bit as much of a money oriented corporation as MS)
"Instead, we'll get some overcomplicated peice of average hardware, probably more expensive that the iPod, and a completly ***** online music store."
Just like the xbox eh? I know my 360 is sure as hell overcomplicated with run of the mill hardware. It's sure as hell more expensive than it's competition and the online service is horrible. I mean come on! have you even TRIED xbox live? Microsoft clearly has no experience in the consumer electronic division, online distribution system division, or the destroying the clear-cut market leader division either.
Buy some Apple stock, so when it falls, we can laugh at you. - flag564, on 10/12/2007, -62/+65Great another Ipod fanboy who just cannot stand the fact that MS actually had the "nerve" to get into this market. Let me guess, MS is copying ipod, they are not innovating, you think the player is "*****" even though you haven't used it, you think its ugly, blah blah blah!
Get over it! While you same people pray that the OSX share off the market will one day exceed Windows, which btw is 93% of the OS market, shouldn't Apple go find something else to do? While Apple didn't invent the MP3 player, they *GASP* jumped in after others had already produced products *GASP*. And while Apple has copied ideas from other companies, you seem to think that MS should die for doing the same thing your beloved Apple inc. has been doing for years.
Instead of welcoming an new player to the market, many of you ipod users are heck bent on trying to spread as much FUD as possible over the Internet. It makes me hope that the Zune cleans the Ipods clock. The arrogance of the ipod users is just getting out of control. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8When will people realize that there is no such thing as an iPod killer? The Creative Zen Vision has more features and is a better product than the iPod video, but did it kill the iPod? No. It's all about the right marketing approach, and Apple has done this.
- flag564, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I would list all of the Apple failures, but everything, other than the Ipod are failures in the marketplace since none of Apple's products ever gained more than a tiny piece of the market.
Here is a sample of some of them.
Lisa
Newton
Pippin
Emate
Quick Take
OS8
OS9
G4 Cube
Performa
Quadra
Ipod Boombox
Leather case
OpenDoc
Mac TV
Copland
eWorld
Puck Mouse/Kiddie Keyboard
Macintosh Portable - madoublet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I think the Zune will be good for the industry, because it will force Apple to innovate. I feel like I have been waiting 2 years for wifi on an ipod. I keep saying that I will buy a new one when they add new features, but 2 years later, I still have my mini (with having to replace a battery of course).
- dpezet, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7The other thing to consider is that Microsoft will be adding "gaiming" to the system in future versions. Once they do that it may stray far enough away from the iPod business that Apple will continue to do just fine. For right now, however, it is a direct competitor. It will be fun to watch.
- CrankyMcGuy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Amen! There have been many competing services to the iTMS I've wanted to sample but haven't because they are not OS X compatible. If history is any indication, the Zune (really LAME name, IMO) will not come out of the box OS X savvy. MS had deliberately kept WMP on the Mac behind, and now they've killed it. The magic behind Zune on the PC will be WMP11 and there are no plans to bring that to Mac OS X that I've heard.
- CrankyMcGuy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Wow! And I thought the "leaked" Origami ad was bad. That was freakin' hilarious. What were they thinking?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5"Sorry, but MP3 players existed before the ipod"
I'm neither an apple nor an MS fanboy, but how much do you want to bet that this new "mp3 player" is going to be ***A LOT*** like the ipod and NOT like the other MP3 players that came before them? - betterth, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Okay so a decent Mac gaming machine, I have to drop about 1500 starting, and then 200 for Windows, so 1700 for ***** mid-grade parts. And then I can start using Windows on my Mac and play some games.
For 1700$ I could build a top of the line gaming pc that would leave the mac so far behind in every benchmark that it would cease to be funny. At 1700+ you have processors so good Apple won't sell them, video cards that give Apple's ATI 1800 pipeline envy (7950 anyone?) etc etc.
So, no the gaming arguement does NOT cease to be a point, at all. Considering I can get twice the computer and I only lose two things: 1) White plastic. It's why Mac's cost more, because it makes you feel ***** trendy or whatever. and 2) OSX, which is incredibly easily pirated any way.
When Apple gets off their ass and starts competitively pricing computers and putting decent hard ware in there, maybe they'll see the enthusiast market head in that direction. - mlkmnz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6No, its cluttered with too many players. Maybe if there was a significant price advantage from a competitor, but most competitor products I see out there are more expensive or about the same as the iPod. Some have tried it with video, but thats still a bit niche given the average member of the publics ability to modify or obtain video content.
- betterth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5By saying underfeatured I mean that Apple chooses to gimp their products to force you to stay with Apple. Itunes is Ipod only compliant. Ipods don't play well with others, no support for anything but mp3 and apple formats. Their plugs are proprietary. Their craftsmenship is shoddy, so you have to continue buying their products.
Companies like Apple build the iPod with planned obsolescence while companies like Samsung do not. Unfortunately it's a major issue with American vs Foreign companies, too many American companies intentionally build faulty products and the iPod is not different.
I was using exaggeration when I said twice the cost and half the features. You seem intelligent, I thought you might have realized that. But you've fought it to the bone and I'm not quite sure why. Of course nothing else has twice the features. It's a friggin music player, who in their right mind wants 2x more features on it?
As for half the cost, the iPod is the most expensive on the market. You say it's the best, I choose to disagree. Even if you don't get as much from other companies like Samsung, you get craftsmenship and customer support. I own an iPod, (I traded for it on ebay brand new in exchange for a PSP I never played). It's a decent device. Mine sure as hell doesn't 15 hour battery life, more like 7 on a good day, and thats music only with minimal if any backlight/screen usage.
The screen scratches so easily, I can't watch anything on it. My iPod probably has spent a collective two hours out of it's protective case in the past six monthes (again, this is a use of "exaggeration") and the screen is so scratched that its painful to watch video on. I can still read it fine and it doesn't bug me for music playing, so I never complained.
I know that in about two years, my $300 iPod will have battery failure and Apple will tell me that it will cost $250 to fix it.
I know that the screen in mine is about 10-20mm higher on one side than the other, so it's always slanted.
They're nice devices but they could be so much better only if Apple wanted them to be. I hate Apple not because they dominate the market, but because they build with poor craftsmenship. I believe the iPod's are assembled in Malayisa by workers who wouldn't be able to afford the devices they make if they saved 100% of their paycheck for two-three monthes, if I'm not mistaken.
And seriously dude, I understand my previous post was imflammatory, and I hadn't realized I had written "babbling idiot", there were hours between the posts and that is my fault.
But you're being a bit of an ***** and it's really not neccesary. You're being overly condecending to just about everyone. I'm sorry I took the wrong approach, but I just want you to understand that I'm not a mindless anti-apple drone, I have well though out reasons for my dislike of the company this specific product. - DocDEB, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4One of the reasons iPod/iTunes works so well is Apple's total control of the software hardware integration. The only place Microsoft has that control is the XBox XBox Live. I fully expect their "Zune" to be the portable XBox/XBL device with a XBL online music/movie store. MS could move this beyond the XBox with XBL Everywhere assuming that means devices running a Microsoft OS (most likely a future feature of Vista).
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I guess I'm one of those of confident onlookers (I also don't like using fanboy, but I am not one for MS anyway) as with their hardware products, in general they're solid and very good (Joy sticks, mice, keyboards, Xbox and so on) so I have the same expectation for all hardware they launch and they don't 'fail' often (Like with their thumb print reader, technically it was great but they killed it with software restrictions), also, since they [apparently] won't be using past MS services/products (WMP, URGE and so on) I have even more hope.
By statistics, I assume you mean 1 or 2 people saying "LOLZ CREATIE AND SANDISK FAILEDKEKE45%"? :P
How does a company beat another in the 'design department'? Isn't that very subjective? There are people who love how Mac's look, and there are people who love how a custom PC case with neons, paint jobs and excessive fans looks. :D
I think people are underestimating MS [again] and will hopefully be [pleasantly] suprised, if it looks good and works well, I'll gladly ditch my [overpriced] iPod.
Either way, most comments on here are stupid, biased and useless, but since there is no moderation we have to put with it and seek out the few well-thought out (Or which took more than a minute to think about) posts. - geonox, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Well see how this one dose. The iPod has dominated the marked for too long; some one else needs to get some variety in there.
- mlkmnz, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Yeah. Its all a big conspiracy for them to ruin your competing hardware.
Clown shoes..... - readme, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7The title should be: "Microsoft Readies Its IPod Fodder"
- Cerberus047, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3but for converting pirates i think its a great idea... because your already in the habbit of just looking for songs and getting them withought a second thought... with itunes idea, the money builds up and your more cautious to get a song... with this idea i pay a monthly fee (hoping its not too high) and i get all the songs i want anytime which is pretty sweet because i dont have to worry do i have enough money for this song?? its about what the cost of 1 cd a month so i say its a deal... if your a converting pirate
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm far from an Apple zealot (though I used to be), and I use an Ipod for lack of a better option for my purposes. Here's what would make Zune a better option:
1. Every song I've purchased with Itunes is converted for free, or re-downloaded at no charge to be playable at the same fidelity.
2. More than 14 hours battery life
3. No larger than my 60gb video ipod
4. Capable of playing a variety of video formats, including everything i've ripped and downloaded for my video ipod.
5. At least 80gb storage
6. And perhaps most important: a line-level out at least equaling (as clean) the line-level out on a video ipod.
If they can deliver this, I'll switch without a second thought. -
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