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- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+303"I had a feeling a law was being broken, but I didn't know exactly what," Sparta police chief Andrew Milanowski told the TV station.
Rolls eyes. - SandorClegane, on 10/11/2007, -5/+202"I had a feeling a law was being broken, but I didn't know exactly what," Sparta police chief Andrew Milanowski told the TV station.
Does it freak anyone else out when the police hold this opinion? IMO if they can not cite the specific law you are being arrested for breaking, they shouldn't be able to touch you. And what the hell exactly is suspicious about using your computer in your car?? - mazerrackham, on 10/11/2007, -2/+161So none of: the police offer, network user, and cafe owner knew that it was illegal, and there were no complaints from any party, but the guy was arrested. Yay for justice!
- CannedMango, on 10/11/2007, -4/+146@SandorClegane
I think it's a sign that there are too many frickin' laws - Thuktun, on 10/11/2007, -2/+142FTA: "Whether or not you agree with the legality of using an open WiFi network without the owner's authorization, one thing is painfully clear: if you're going to leech, try not to do it from a parked car right in front of the building."
- built2spill, on 10/11/2007, -3/+130"I had a feeling a law was being broken, but I didn't know exactly what," Sparta police chief Andrew Milanowski told the TV station.
Booked on a feeling. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -4/+116@fluxion:
Your hose and electricity are nothing like a WiFi signal. If I was spraying the public street with my hose, and everyone was walking up and getting a drink or washing their hands, should they be arrested and fined for using my water without permission? That would be unencrypted WiFi.
If I was keeping my water in a big thermos in my locked car on the public street and you broke into the car and took a drink, THEN I'd say you committed a crime. That's WiFi with encryption.
For purposes of upholding this law, they should treat encryption as an extension of property rights, and lack of encryption as surrender of property rights, over that computer network.
-Paul - Flaaron, on 10/11/2007, -2/+113When I finally end up being arrested, I sure hope it's because a police officer has some sort of gut feeling that maybe I could potentially be breaking a law that perchance hypothetically exists.
Delightful! - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -15/+121ya cause everyone knows even if your not breaking any laws you still have to hide your activities
whats next? people having to walk their dogs in secret so they dont get arrested for trespassing on the sidewalks? - gislib, on 10/11/2007, -11/+113@hdtvdust
The way I see it, and I bet I'll get dugg down for this, is that if a WiFi network is open and unsecurred, the owner IS authorizing anyone to use it. - coheedcollapse, on 10/11/2007, -3/+87People who don't know ***** about technology need to stop writing laws governing it.
- monospaced, on 10/11/2007, -6/+78If anyone puts up a free WiFi network, it shouldn't be illegal to hop on it. I don't give a damn if you're not a customer, if there's no password, expect freeloaders. I can roam around San Francisco hopping from unprotected signal to unprotected signal all over the city. How illegal is it if everyone does it AND the people running the networks are warned repeatedly (by everyone) to secure it?
- leftnut, on 10/11/2007, -2/+72At the very least, you shouldn't admit what you're doing.
- 4degrees, on 10/11/2007, -9/+67@hvdust
Based simply that it is a FREE access point means that he is authorized to use it... so no, its not stealing. - mygrayarea, on 10/11/2007, -5/+62I wonder if the wifi has a TOS screen before you were allowed to use it, anyone providing wifi should know to use one. Otherwise I'd consider it free for the taking. And jesus, you think someone with the nick roflcopterfuel would know the answer to that.
- cquinnd, on 10/11/2007, -2/+58You could use the link provided in the article?
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jc1g5h3g5myun5im1l2kua55))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-752-795 - tekz0r, on 10/11/2007, -4/+59Easy way to get out of something like this (as long as the owner of the wifi network isn't actually aware that you're on their net work and has evidence) since I can bet that no police officer knows what the ***** we'd be talking about:
"What are you doing, sir?"
"Oh hi officer, if you must know, I'm using GPRS/EDGE/3G via PCMCIA to connect to the internet wirelessly through my *name of GPRS/EDGE/3G wireless provider* account on fedora core 6. Is there a problem?"
"just get outta here, get the ***** outta here" - virushead, on 10/11/2007, -11/+58Anyone know where to find the text of the law that says that leeching off an unsecured and open wi-fi is illegal?
- EtherGnat, on 10/11/2007, -4/+43WARNING: BAD ANALOGIES AHEAD
Please use caution when navigating analogies on this page, which may have little correlation to the topic at hand. Specifically analogies involving stealing cars, walking in somebody's front door, listening to somebody else's radio, and reading using somebody else's lights are known to pop up at any time and may cause severe brain trauma. - flag564, on 10/11/2007, -1/+36Well, if I was the shop owner, I wouldn't press charges.
I didn't know the law was in place, and the guy was just checking his email.
Just inform him that he should come inside and purchase something and it all good.
All the time and money this chowder head cop has wasted on this is just pathetic. - built2spill, on 10/11/2007, -1/+34You know, coffee houses with free wifi often have a 'terms of service' page that you must click I AGREE on to use their network. I've never noticed anything about how much coffee I need to buy, or where I need to sit in order to use it. Just saying.
- mikes1, on 10/11/2007, -3/+33Who is acting illegally?
Just as the person with the laptop was connecting to the cafe's network, so too was the cafe's AP connecting to the laptop's network interface. So, if this is "unauthorized access," then BOTH are guilty.
But, it _was_ "authorized access."
The very first thing a wireless NIC does to join a WLAN is to send an "authentication request frame," asking to be authenticated. The Access Point can approve or disapprove the authentication. With an open AP, the AP would have approved the authentication request. Only after receiving an approval for its authorization request does an 802.11 NIC move on to associating with the AP.
For open APs, the AP has been deliberately configured to authorize all comers.
Case closed. If the District Atty trys to prosecute this, he's an idiot. - mywhitenoise, on 10/11/2007, -2/+27I rip off coffee houses' wi-fi on my breaks from work. I made a few pokemon trades on my DS lite...I'm a monster.
- built2spill, on 10/11/2007, -3/+28I once booked a room from my car in front of a coffee house. If they're giving it away and it's in my range - seriously, would you not use a free signal if it was there and not encrypted? Heck, you just about can't keep an off the shelf laptop from connecting to such a signal if it's available.
Full story tho - Went to a Pannera restaurant to book the room on their Wifi. At GREAT LENGTH we (customers/employees) discovered it was DOWN. I didn't really even want that bagel and coffee, but oh well....got directions for another coffee house and used their wifi from the car. Was seriously not going to buy more unwanted coffee. Was I wrong?? - Sebastian, on 10/11/2007, -1/+23Makes me feel ashamed to live in Michigan
- dorianh49, on 10/11/2007, -3/+25@ roflcopterfuel: That's a stupid nick. But not a stupid question. :) I wondered for a long time what it meant, also, but then I googled it last year and found out that it was something that players would "text" each other while playing Starcraft: "I am in ur base killing ur doodz"
http://ask.metafilter.com/47041/I-am-in-ur-webz-aksin-ur-questins - JoeBaynham, on 10/11/2007, -2/+23What if your laptop connects to the strongest open network/network it knows the password to.. are you stealing then even if the laptop does it by default?
- thewebguy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+19Officer: Are you using their wireless network?
Guy: No.
Officer: Well, I guess I can't prove it can I.. - EtherGnat, on 10/11/2007, -1/+20So give customers an access code, or put up a splash page saying the service is for paying customers only. Don't @#$% with my right to provide an open access point to whoever I like, though.
The only analogy I've heard that holds up is that of a web server. Just like a wi-fi access point you can choose to either provide access to everybody or a select few. The browser queries the server which either allows or denies the request. Each user consumes a small amount of bandwidth which the provider ultimately pays for.
When somebody puts a database with confidential information (or other services they don't want generally available) on a public web server we rightfully make fun of the provider. Nobody suggests the user should first contact the webmaster for permission first, but that's exactly what we do with wi-fi access points. Why is it acceptable to provide electronic permission in one case, but not the other? - morriscat, on 10/11/2007, -3/+22The unlocked door logic is flawed, idiotic, and you look like douchebags for propagating it.
By this logic I could have someone arrested for watching my tv, or listening to my stereo, while in my living room. They are mine, and *gasp* someone else is "using" them.
Of course, if i didn't want that, I could lock the door, which for you douchbags out there, is a metaphor for "encrypt the signal". - Ignignokt01, on 10/11/2007, -4/+22Disregarding whether it is or isn't illegal, why shouldn't this be legal?
- mygrayarea, on 10/11/2007, -4/+21"A person shall not intentionally and without authorization...."
If there were no Terms Of Service Agreement before being able to use an open wifi hotspot then you are freely given the authorization. Even if it is a non-password protected access point it is trivial to include a TOS agreement, and if you don't know how to provide one you should not open a public wifi access point. - nixfu, on 10/11/2007, -1/+18
Sooooooooooooo... I guess its also illegal to STEAL THE MUSIC if they have music playing on loud speakers inside and you can hear it from outside too???!!!
/and yes, I know what the RIAA would say... I mean besides that - amowls, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16Solution: Make it password protected and print the password on receipts so that paying customers will have it.
Or.. Not give a *****? - link470, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15@coheedcollapse
You're right. A lot of people are just scared because of the fear of the unknown, "what COULD they do with that computer? Are they...HACKING something?". They're taking an extreme precaution way too far by arresting someone. - wilem, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16If you have open WiFi then what do you expect? The law should only cover WiFi networks that have been secured and then leeched.
- ryanknapper, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15If this was Boston they would have detonated the access point.
- flag564, on 10/11/2007, -7/+22Your governors a Cannuck.
You're economy is worse than Louisiana's.
And you arrest people for using an unlocked Wi-Fi signal.
Hang your head looooooow. - pixelmixer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15@htvdust
I dont think most people actually own ALL of the property that is covered by their network. Its not the same as walking into an unlocked house. - Ericular, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14@dynamo
If I was broadcasting a message from my car that said "Free Car! Right over here! Just respond to me and you've got yourself a free car!" ... I'd have a hard time making a case against someone taking it. - desqjockey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13Under Michigan law, yes. But I would argue that leaving it unsecured is implied consent to use.
- gergle, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13I wonder if you can be arrested for using their bathroom without buying bagels! I mean isn't that stealing, too? Are you required to get written consent before peeing? How about if I sit in a chair and use their A/C during the summer? Sure I'd leave if they asked me to, but haven't I just stolen?
Somebody is a little bits nuts here..and I don't think it's me. - carpespasm, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11maybe if my shoes were set from the factory to automatically walk me into any house with an open door that had a big sign visible from the street that said "OPEN HOUSE, COME ON IN" then yeah. your open door analogy is flawed. Now if the SSID were not being broadcast, no DHCP were enabled and he sniffed it out (walking house to house jiggling door handles), then came inside (no invitation) we'd have a problem
if you leave a router open to connection, it's open to anyone. simple as that. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -6/+17I think its wrong. If you leave your network open that is your decision and therefor your fault. Windows connects itself to open networks without even doing anything. I use open networks all the damn time. While wardriving around my town me and my friend found an avg. of 3-5 open networks on almost every street. It is rediculous and I think there should be laws made to force router makers to impliment easier to understand security settings. By default so many of them do not even ask you to setup any encryption or anything. I think that cop should be fired for being a muppet.
- Wolfie351, on 10/11/2007, -14/+25It's also called loitering. If you're in a parking space and not a patron, you're taking it away from another potential paying customer.
- TheReport, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12"Peterson's actions could result in a five-year felony and a $10,000 fine. "
Totally justified because real criminals that are out murdering our families and raping our children should not be tying up our legal system with frivilous lawsuits..pshhh I mean right? Am I right or am I right? finally a real crime we can all agree that our tax dollars are being put to good use. - jlebrech, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Just connect inside the coffee shop and you have the advantage of hearing them call the police, and you can buy a bagel just in time.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10i agree. with many cities now creating free-for-all wifi networks in some areas, if i find a free wifi connection i just assume i can use it. not free-to-use wifi should be secured or have some sort of license agreement page.
- Karyyk, on 10/11/2007, -12/+22Sure, they might pay for the bandwidth, but the question is, are they going to pay any more if I leech a bit? Unlikely. The only victim here is the guy getting busted on a backwards law.
- AriaStar, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11With so many people and companies these days leaving wifi open and free for the taking, unless there's a TOS stating that you must be a customer to use, then these companies need to shut up. They're going to lose business if they try to have people arrested. I don't know about you, but if I was a patron of a cafe or whatever that had free wifi that I liked to use, I'd stop going there if I found out they had someone arrested for using it without buying a coffee unless there was such a TOS.
This is really bad PR for any company wanting the arrest of people. And I think it's illegal to be arrested without being told the charges on the spot. They can't just arrest you and look for grounds later. If more come up afterward, fine. But they can't just take you and say, "Well, I don't know what you're doing wrong, we'll see if I can't find something later." I hope the guy sues back for that. -
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